Alonso to Mclaren

[LamboJJ]

Why does Alonso want to move to a team that hasn't won this season and frequently have reliability problems???

Is it because it fits his image better. A better looking car, overalls and eyewear, from quiksilver at renault to oakley at Mclaren?!
Or is it that he wants a fresh start and new challenge, what do you lot reckon? What else has persuaded him to leave renault.

[baz1985]

He wants to emulate Michael. Build up a team around him and win. Vanity- WDCs with 2 different teams. The illusion that Reno were going to quit F1.

[steviebee]

As I understand it, the deal was done some time last season when McLaren were winning. At the time, Renault and Flav had not committed to F1 beyond 06 and he needed to make a move. Based on the info he had at the time, it was probably the correct choice.

[SamHH]

McLaren were performing a good deal better when Alonso signed for them and I suppose they could perform just as well next year. I think there was also some uncertainty about Renault's commitment to F1 when Alonso signed for McLaren last year. Also, I'll make an uninformed guess that McLaren will pay Alonso more than Renault were willing to.

[kevin ritson]

SamHH said:

Also, I'll make an uninformed guess that McLaren will pay Alonso more than Renault were willing to.

Money was a big decider - Flav didn't want to pay Alonso much more if he could get away with it so Fernando did a deal behind his back. Also at the time Renault had not confirmed whether they would be committing to F1 or not, their new head at the time having an image as a hatchet man when he was controlling Nissan.

[stevieb]

LamboJJ said:

Why does Alonso want to move to a team that hasn't won this season and frequently have reliability problems???

Is it because it fits his image better. A better looking car, overalls and eyewear, from quiksilver at renault to oakley at Mclaren?!
Or is it that he wants a fresh start and new challenge, what do you lot reckon? What else has persuaded him to leave renault.

Money simple as that!

Edited by stevieb on Tuesday 24th October 18:02

[flemke]

stevieb said:

LamboJJ said:

Why does Alonso want to move to a team that hasn't won this season and frequently have reliability problems???

Is it because it fits his image better. A better looking car, overalls and eyewear, from quiksilver at renault to oakley at Mclaren?!
Or is it that he wants a fresh start and new challenge, what do you lot reckon? What else has persuaded him to leave renault.

Money simple as that!

Maybe, but if it was a matter only of money, why wouldn't Alonso have created an auction for his services, rather than conducting secret negotiations with only one counterparty?

[rubystone]

He'll be quite open and admit that it was Ghosn's uncertainty about Renault's commitment to F1 that was the main driver for his move. Flav's management team continues to take its percentage of Alonso next year, so don't read too much into his "going behind Flav's back" headlines.

[D-Angle]

flemke said:

Maybe, but if it was a matter only of money, why wouldn't Alonso have created an auction for his services, rather than conducting secret negotiations with only one counterparty?

After he won the driver's championship, Alonso apparently received offers from several teams in the paddock. He states that the offer to join McLaren was simply the best offer made to him. Whether it was simply more cash, a competitive car, or the chance to build a team around himself that made it the best deal, wasn't elaborated upon. I would guess it was a combination of all three.

[flemke]

D-Angle said:

After he won the driver's championship, Alonso apparently received offers from several teams in the paddock. He states that the offer to join McLaren was simply the best offer made to him. Whether it was simply more cash, a competitive car, or the chance to build a team around himself that made it the best deal, wasn't elaborated upon. I would guess it was a combination of all three.

In an environment in which a "secret" remains a secret about as long as a fart in a lift does, the F1 circus seemed pretty surprised when the Alonso/McLaren deal was announced.

[stevieb]

flemke said:

D-Angle said:

After he won the driver's championship, Alonso apparently received offers from several teams in the paddock. He states that the offer to join McLaren was simply the best offer made to him. Whether it was simply more cash, a competitive car, or the chance to build a team around himself that made it the best deal, wasn't elaborated upon. I would guess it was a combination of all three.

In an environment in which a "secret" remains a secret about as long as a fart in a lift does, the F1 circus seemed pretty surprised when the Alonso/McLaren deal was announced.

I think Ron Dennis knew that Kimi would not stay after missing the driver title twice. And that Ron was under pressure to sign a top level driver, With the roumor that micheal was retiring alonso was the only choice open to Ron.

Ron was aware that renault future was in doubt in F1 and must of made an offer to alonso that he could not refuse. With the thought that Kimi was on his way To ferarri there was no other team that could come up with the salary for alonso other than Renault or Mclaren.


Steve

[flemke]

stevieb said:

I think Ron Dennis knew that Kimi would not stay after missing the driver title twice. And that Ron was under pressure to sign a top level driver, With the roumor that micheal was retiring alonso was the only choice open to Ron.

Ron was aware that renault future was in doubt in F1 and must of made an offer to alonso that he could not refuse. With the thought that Kimi was on his way To ferarri there was no other team that could come up with the salary for alonso other than Renault or Mclaren.

I don't disagree with your train of thought, although it remains unclear whether McL. really knew in the summer of '05 that KR had signed with F., or whether he lied to them and they believed him. M. Whitmarsh has suggested the latter.


Anyhow, as for no other team being able to come up with the money to pay for Alonso except Renault and McLaren, how about:

- Toyota
- Honda
- BMW
- Red Bull

Three of the most profitable car companies in the world, and an outfit that is paying $10M to a designer.

[baz1985]

I'm suprised Alonso didn't wait for Ferrari as he is the real Schumi replacement

[stevieb]

flemke said:

I don't disagree with your train of thought, although it remains unclear whether McL. really knew in the summer of '05 that KR had signed with F., or whether he lied to them and they believed him. M. Whitmarsh has suggested the latter.


Anyhow, as for no other team being able to come up with the money to pay for Alonso except Renault and McLaren, how about:

- Toyota
- Honda
- BMW
- Red Bull

Three of the most profitable car companies in the world, and an outfit that is paying $10M to a designer.

- Toyota - I am sure there driver line up was already in draft stages for 2007,

- Honda - Drivers already contracted for 2007

- BMW - in my opinon they are not ready or consistant enough for a world champion. Alonso would much rather choose a team that is 95% complete rather than a Team developing its pedigree.

- Redbull - When was the last time a customer Ferrari engine won a Race. This was before they signed the Renault Deal. I personally believe that Redbull could be the spoiler of the season if they are able to use Renault Engines instead of Ferarri, and to be honest out perform the factory outfit.

I do not believe Alonso was looking for a challenge like schumacher was when he joined Ferarri, He was looking to assit in completing a good package which is where Mclaren was coming in. Schumacher took all the key poeple from benneton, and the team of three made ferrari what it is today. Alonso could not do that as he had discussed all of the deal with mclaren behind closed doors.

Alonso is a good driver but i do not agree with his approach over the past 2 years in the later half of the season. he is not as complete as schumacher and no other driver on the grid is.

I think the writing was on the wall ever since the number of failures in the last season that had cost Kimi his drivers championship. Hence the Pre contract with Ferrari to have first refusal and that Schumacher had made it clear that he was retiring that had lead ferarri to take up the option on Kimi. Else this may have been delayed by 12 months and kimi may have stayed at Mclaren or possibly Renault for a 12 month deal only and then move to Ferarri

[stevieb]

baz1985 said:

I'm suprised Alonso didn't wait for Ferrari as he is the real Schumi replacement

Alonso would not fit in with the Team Ethos, Kimi would be more a racer than alonso and hence a better successor.

I have yet to See Kimi command the team, maybe this is his chance at ferarri.

[deevlash]

could be interesting with reliabilty issues creeping into ferrari at the end of the season will Kimi just end up blowing engines and cars all season with them like he seemed to do fairly regularly for macca. Maclaren have been fast but fragile a lot and I wonder how much that was contributed to by the kimis style. Alonso's style is fairly aggressive too so they might be in for more of the same? Kovalienen could turn out to be brilliant but I doubt he'll do it next year leaving the way open for Massa to romp home? maybe, could happen, possibly.

[rubystone]

I was absolutely sure that Todt was playing a flanker when he kept talking about Raikkonen as being the driver he wanted - for me, the McLaren signing of Alonso was a total surprise. I agree that Alonso is the better driver for Ferrrari and a such, RD's move is an absolute masterstroke. I don't know anyone who saw the Alonso to McLaren move coming

[flemke]

stevieb said:

flemke said:

I don't disagree with your train of thought, although it remains unclear whether McL. really knew in the summer of '05 that KR had signed with F., or whether he lied to them and they believed him. M. Whitmarsh has suggested the latter.


Anyhow, as for no other team being able to come up with the money to pay for Alonso except Renault and McLaren, how about:

- Toyota
- Honda
- BMW
- Red Bull

Three of the most profitable car companies in the world, and an outfit that is paying $10M to a designer.

- Toyota - I am sure there driver line up was already in draft stages for 2007,

- Honda - Drivers already contracted for 2007

- BMW - in my opinon they are not ready or consistant enough for a world champion. Alonso would much rather choose a team that is 95% complete rather than a Team developing its pedigree.

- Redbull - When was the last time a customer Ferrari engine won a Race. This was before they signed the Renault Deal. I personally believe that Redbull could be the spoiler of the season if they are able to use Renault Engines instead of Ferarri, and to be honest out perform the factory outfit.

I do not believe Alonso was looking for a challenge like schumacher was when he joined Ferarri, He was looking to assit in completing a good package which is where Mclaren was coming in. Schumacher took all the key poeple from benneton, and the team of three made ferrari what it is today. Alonso could not do that as he had discussed all of the deal with mclaren behind closed doors.

Alonso is a good driver but i do not agree with his approach over the past 2 years in the later half of the season. he is not as complete as schumacher and no other driver on the grid is.

I think the writing was on the wall ever since the number of failures in the last season that had cost Kimi his drivers championship. Hence the Pre contract with Ferrari to have first refusal and that Schumacher had made it clear that he was retiring that had lead ferarri to take up the option on Kimi. Else this may have been delayed by 12 months and kimi may have stayed at Mclaren or possibly Renault for a 12 month deal only and then move to Ferarri

Stevie,

You had said that, apart from Ferrari, Renault and McLaren, there was no other team that could come up with the salary that Alonso would require.
I was just observing that there were several other teams that could come up with the money (Toyota's paying Ralf 25/year, for god's sake), although, as you suggest, they may have had reasons other than cost for choosing not to go after him.
I myself very much doubt that none of the four would have been interested, had they believed that Alonso might be free.

Btw, according to Todt, there was no "pre-contract" between Raikkonen and the dubious ones; it was just a straight contract signed in the summer of '05.

It is by no means clear that Schumacher was "looking for a challenge" when he joined Ferrari.
When he joined Todt was already there, as were the shedloads of Marlboro money.
Is it not at least as likely that he went to the place where he thought that he would have the best shot to win over the next decade, and where he would make the most money?

If Schumacher were so willing to look for a challenge, you would think that he would have welcomed a strong co-driver, instead of insisting that his co-driver always be relegated to supporting himself - a policy enforced by a binding written contract.

Cheers.

[muzzer79]

stevieb said:

Ron was aware that renault future was in doubt in F1 and must of made an offer to alonso that he could not refuse. With the thought that Kimi was on his way To ferarri there was no other team that could come up with the salary for alonso other than Renault or Mclaren.

Steve

I thought it came about when Alonso was on the podium having having finished 2nd/3rd in one race in '05. Ron was up there collecting the manufacturer's trophy and Alonso complimented him on the speed of the Mclaren and the team in general. Ron simply said "Why not become part of it?" and it went from there.

Always amuses me to hear things like this - poaching a main rival's driver whilst he's on the podium in front of the world!

[LongQ]

Somehow I doubt that the second half of this season is much of a guide to what will happen in 2007. I think it was all about tyres.

2007 may also be all about tyres - unless frozen engines offer a significant as yet unrecognised influence - with presumably FIArrari having an edge early on. Whether they retain that edge may depend on Bridgestone's attitude and how quickly the other teams can learn and/or begin to influence Bridgestone development.

Does anybody think Fisi will last much beyond mid season at Renault?