Matt James's Motorsport News Editorial!
Discussion
Matt is a great supporter of the EERC, and it was with great surprise that we read his comments. Had he called James Tucker prior to writing his piece, he might never have written it at all.
Suffice to say, James and Matt have now cleared the air, and Matt is fully conversant with the true facts.
STEVE WOOD
EERC Press Officer
Suffice to say, James and Matt have now cleared the air, and Matt is fully conversant with the true facts.
STEVE WOOD
EERC Press Officer
I don't know why there would need to be any air cleaning.. What Matt said was his view and fair enough. Hey after all it is nice to have a journalist have a point of view rather than his words being scripted and bent by someone's PR.
Just been watching the 24hr event and I think the empty grandstands say it all vis a vis spectator interest........
Just been watching the 24hr event and I think the empty grandstands say it all vis a vis spectator interest........
p490kvp said:
Just been watching the 24hr event and I think the empty grandstands say it all vis a vis spectator interest........
Strangely enough i was actually there for both the 2005 and 2006 races and in spite of what you saw from the comfort of your chair, there were a hell of a lot more people there this year than there were in 05. The majority of the Grandstands were actually closed, including the uncovered section of the pit straight grandstand.
I was also at the Silverstone Classic this year and the crowd for that didn't seem to be much bigger.
Edited by monkeyhanger on Tuesday 26th December 23:03
Please don't take this the wrong way because I know it will come across as arrogant - its not meant to be.
Dude I was there not only in 2005 and 2006 for the 24hr event but also in '03 and '04 at Snet with the Willhire - racing.
The crowd numbers are always pretty grim for Britcar - not because the EERC makes no effort because I know they do but ultimately (and in my opinion) the quality of the field isn't there.
If (just for instance) there had the top 20 cars in with a chance of winning the event, driven by professionals then just watch the crowds flock - sadly the UK doesn't have that anymore in any series except maybe the Grand Prix.
Dude I was there not only in 2005 and 2006 for the 24hr event but also in '03 and '04 at Snet with the Willhire - racing.
The crowd numbers are always pretty grim for Britcar - not because the EERC makes no effort because I know they do but ultimately (and in my opinion) the quality of the field isn't there.
If (just for instance) there had the top 20 cars in with a chance of winning the event, driven by professionals then just watch the crowds flock - sadly the UK doesn't have that anymore in any series except maybe the Grand Prix.
I have also been to both of the Britcar 24 hour races and I reckon that the crowd numbers are much more to do with Silverstone's apparent lack of understanding as to what makes a successful endurance event. The sooner they start opening up the circuit infield to allow punters to camp all weekend, then they might start to get something resembling a British Le Mans. It doesn't really matter what the EERC do to try and promote the meeting (which was negligible outside the specialist press - I'm local to Silverstone and there was nothing in the Milton Keynes papers during the lead up to the race), until the circuit take it seriously for the type of event it is, you're only going to get a small handful of enthusiasts there.
Endurance racing of pretty much any kind never seems to get particularly large crowds (Le Mans excepted) in my experience. Your general punter is usually more interested in the short, sharp 10 lap races that provide instant action as opposed to the more tactical 'long-ball game' of enduros. By providing something else (camping, decent sideshows, sportscar displays etc) you may get a slightly more diverse crowd in.
As to the calibre of drivers entering, it seems the only household names in British motorsport other than the F1 boys are those in the BTCC. And if you were putting a season's work (and budget) into getting a car onto the grid, would you want the likes of Messrs Plato, Collard, Turkington, Neal et al charging off on the first lap of 5 or 600 like they were on a 15-lapper at Knockhill?
No, me neither! Give me the likes of Greensall, Lockie, Leslie, Short, Horne etc any day.
Just my two penneth.
Oh, and it didn't rain like hell this year, which may have contributed to the larger crowd...
Endurance racing of pretty much any kind never seems to get particularly large crowds (Le Mans excepted) in my experience. Your general punter is usually more interested in the short, sharp 10 lap races that provide instant action as opposed to the more tactical 'long-ball game' of enduros. By providing something else (camping, decent sideshows, sportscar displays etc) you may get a slightly more diverse crowd in.
As to the calibre of drivers entering, it seems the only household names in British motorsport other than the F1 boys are those in the BTCC. And if you were putting a season's work (and budget) into getting a car onto the grid, would you want the likes of Messrs Plato, Collard, Turkington, Neal et al charging off on the first lap of 5 or 600 like they were on a 15-lapper at Knockhill?
No, me neither! Give me the likes of Greensall, Lockie, Leslie, Short, Horne etc any day.
Just my two penneth.
Oh, and it didn't rain like hell this year, which may have contributed to the larger crowd...
I live in Silverstone village and there was lots of stuff about the 24hr race - including free tickets to the whole village! In the BP fuel stations in the area there were 24hr flyers on the counters and posters in windows. The EERC team did a lot of hard work in promoting the event with whatever budget they had.
Sure Silverstone circuit is run by some clueless people (that's SCL and elements within the BRDC) but even then the circuit is rented to the EERC and so once the crcuit has been paid for the use of the circuit they care not so much..
You are right the admission price was high and the camping, grandstand issue needs sorting but that will not bring people in their tens of thousands. No what is needed is less shitters on the grid and more cars capable of winning the event outright.
No question if there were some proper cars driven by proper people racing for the win people will come to watch - sadly watching a couple of nice cars supported by a heap of old E36 BMW's wobbling around doesn't fire people up to come and watch
Finally on the subject of pro drivers - the BTCC drivers get tarred with a brush that shows ignorance. They will do the job they are paid to do. In BTCC (and I should know having raced in the series for 3 seasons) if you back out of everything then not only will you get pushed around all year but the manufacturer paying you isn't all that chuffed. However high profile names making a switch between touring cars and endurance racing include....Tom Kristensen (DTM and err 7 time Le Mans WINNER), McNish, Aiello, Darren Turner, Peter Kox, etc, etc - I could go on but I think you take my point.
Sure Silverstone circuit is run by some clueless people (that's SCL and elements within the BRDC) but even then the circuit is rented to the EERC and so once the crcuit has been paid for the use of the circuit they care not so much..
You are right the admission price was high and the camping, grandstand issue needs sorting but that will not bring people in their tens of thousands. No what is needed is less shitters on the grid and more cars capable of winning the event outright.
No question if there were some proper cars driven by proper people racing for the win people will come to watch - sadly watching a couple of nice cars supported by a heap of old E36 BMW's wobbling around doesn't fire people up to come and watch
Finally on the subject of pro drivers - the BTCC drivers get tarred with a brush that shows ignorance. They will do the job they are paid to do. In BTCC (and I should know having raced in the series for 3 seasons) if you back out of everything then not only will you get pushed around all year but the manufacturer paying you isn't all that chuffed. However high profile names making a switch between touring cars and endurance racing include....Tom Kristensen (DTM and err 7 time Le Mans WINNER), McNish, Aiello, Darren Turner, Peter Kox, etc, etc - I could go on but I think you take my point.
One other thing...The 24hr race was very badly run by the BRSCC this year - we had a crazy ammount of time under the safety car due to some heavy fog - which also caused a 2nd problem in that because the whole field were bunched up behind it there were lots of noise complaints from the village.
Now this event needs to become a big deal because if it doesn't then it will simply wither on the vine. It needs a proper and consistant format, it needs clear technical regulations that stay relevant, it needs better teams and it needs people to come - so that the local economy sees the event as a positive and not something that is a yearly pain in the ass.
The teams could do themselves a big favour by talking sooner rather than later about what will make this event a big deal and my own personal view is that you make the whole thing into 2 simple classes. Cars upto 3 litres and then cars over 3 litres. That way it will encourage people to go for wins.
It will force the people who usually hire a drive in an old E36 to spend money and hire a drive in a Porsche - which means it strengthens the numbers going for the outright win. OR they spend their money on something more suitable in the lower catagory - but again it means that there is more of a battle and above all it is easy to follow for the punters.
If the 2007 event is anything like it has been before I think not only will the organisers loose interest but actually the people doing the racing too.
Now this event needs to become a big deal because if it doesn't then it will simply wither on the vine. It needs a proper and consistant format, it needs clear technical regulations that stay relevant, it needs better teams and it needs people to come - so that the local economy sees the event as a positive and not something that is a yearly pain in the ass.
The teams could do themselves a big favour by talking sooner rather than later about what will make this event a big deal and my own personal view is that you make the whole thing into 2 simple classes. Cars upto 3 litres and then cars over 3 litres. That way it will encourage people to go for wins.
It will force the people who usually hire a drive in an old E36 to spend money and hire a drive in a Porsche - which means it strengthens the numbers going for the outright win. OR they spend their money on something more suitable in the lower catagory - but again it means that there is more of a battle and above all it is easy to follow for the punters.
If the 2007 event is anything like it has been before I think not only will the organisers loose interest but actually the people doing the racing too.
p490kvp said:
It will force the people who usually hire a drive in an old E36 to spend money and hire a drive in a Porsche - which means it strengthens the numbers going for the outright win. OR they spend their money on something more suitable in the lower catagory - but again it means that there is more of a battle and above all it is easy to follow for the punters.
Really don't agree with this, you will be suggesting that we all go and buy GT3 cars next...
if you want sanitised boaring grids, then that's exactly the way forward...
micron750 said:
can anyone tell me what the britcars run to regarding noise limits as castle Combe has had noise problems and have to run to 108dba?
from memory, Britcar runs to MSA std 105 most of the time...
24H was run to 102 as a concesion to the locals etc.
Edited by Scuffers on Thursday 28th December 16:35
Simon I didn't say that - I mearly used the E36/Porsche comparison as an example.
What should happen is that everyone races for the win. Use whatever you like, use an Audi R8, use a Mini Metro - it doesn't matter but what does matter is that the crowd and the competitors need to go and race for the win.
To use our example - Honda Civic R. Qualified in a 2:05 lap and raced at around 2:09. We could have simply driven around in 2:15's but I'd rather drive up and down the motorway for 24hrs than "race" 10 seconds a lap off the pace.
The point is if we don't make this event a proper event then we simply will not have it - I put up the class break as I did for an example but to be honest the event would be better off running no classes - just everyone race for the win and the only restriction on performance is fuel capacity. Let the Mosler have only 40 litres if it needs it?
What is your idea? or do you think all is well??
What should happen is that everyone races for the win. Use whatever you like, use an Audi R8, use a Mini Metro - it doesn't matter but what does matter is that the crowd and the competitors need to go and race for the win.
To use our example - Honda Civic R. Qualified in a 2:05 lap and raced at around 2:09. We could have simply driven around in 2:15's but I'd rather drive up and down the motorway for 24hrs than "race" 10 seconds a lap off the pace.
The point is if we don't make this event a proper event then we simply will not have it - I put up the class break as I did for an example but to be honest the event would be better off running no classes - just everyone race for the win and the only restriction on performance is fuel capacity. Let the Mosler have only 40 litres if it needs it?
What is your idea? or do you think all is well??
Scuffers said:
p490kvp said:
It will force the people who usually hire a drive in an old E36 to spend money and hire a drive in a Porsche - which means it strengthens the numbers going for the outright win. OR they spend their money on something more suitable in the lower catagory - but again it means that there is more of a battle and above all it is easy to follow for the punters.
Really don't agree with this, you will be suggesting that we all go and buy GT3 cars next...
if you want sanitised boaring grids, then that's exactly the way forward...
micron750 said:
can anyone tell me what the britcars run to regarding noise limits as castle Combe has had noise problems and have to run to 108dba?
from memory, Britcar runs to MSA std 105 most of the time...
24H was run to 102 as a concesion to the locals etc.
Edited by Scuffers on Thursday 28th December 16:35
Which really gets my goat regarding the british Gt seeming to have to run at 118dba
So hats off to all the Britcar racers being able to get the cars to 105dba and great that the championship is coming to my favourate circuit..........Excellent
micron750 said:
Which really gets my goat regarding the british Gt seeming to have to run at 118dba
So hats off to all the Britcar racers being able to get the cars to 105dba and great that the championship is coming to my favourate circuit..........Excellent
So hats off to all the Britcar racers being able to get the cars to 105dba and great that the championship is coming to my favourate circuit..........Excellent
not sure I understand that??
Brit GT run to 108 (or at least that's what the regs said this year).....
118 is way OTT, TGP and GTP are about all that run at that sort of level
p490kvp said:
Simon I didn't say that - I mearly used the E36/Porsche comparison as an example.
What should happen is that everyone races for the win. Use whatever you like, use an Audi R8, use a Mini Metro - it doesn't matter but what does matter is that the crowd and the competitors need to go and race for the win.
To use our example - Honda Civic R. Qualified in a 2:05 lap and raced at around 2:09. We could have simply driven around in 2:15's but I'd rather drive up and down the motorway for 24hrs than "race" 10 seconds a lap off the pace.
The point is if we don't make this event a proper event then we simply will not have it - I put up the class break as I did for an example but to be honest the event would be better off running no classes - just everyone race for the win and the only restriction on performance is fuel capacity. Let the Mosler have only 40 litres if it needs it?
What is your idea? or do you think all is well??
What should happen is that everyone races for the win. Use whatever you like, use an Audi R8, use a Mini Metro - it doesn't matter but what does matter is that the crowd and the competitors need to go and race for the win.
To use our example - Honda Civic R. Qualified in a 2:05 lap and raced at around 2:09. We could have simply driven around in 2:15's but I'd rather drive up and down the motorway for 24hrs than "race" 10 seconds a lap off the pace.
The point is if we don't make this event a proper event then we simply will not have it - I put up the class break as I did for an example but to be honest the event would be better off running no classes - just everyone race for the win and the only restriction on performance is fuel capacity. Let the Mosler have only 40 litres if it needs it?
What is your idea? or do you think all is well??
you can never think all is well, you have to keep moving on....
I agree with some of your point, however, it;s un-realistic to run it as one class, there is simply not enough simmilar class cars to make this work, and that's before you look at the relative budgets to run them (I can only guess at how much it cost Duller this year!), and wist I like the fuel limit breaks, you can't do this to infinitum, can you imagine the logistics of making it work? (it appears to be hard enough getting teams to follow what few rules there are on fuel already!)
Now, personnaly, I was entering the 24 to try and win it, however, even my small budget entry would have been more than some out there in the civic's/etc. and the last think I would like to see is them NOT on the grid.
all the best 12/24H races have very mixed grids, it's what makes them not only interesting, but sustainable.
you only have to look at this years results, TJH came in 7th overall, 1 lap down on a cup class 911, that's exactly the kind of achivement these sorts of races are all about.
if you start to define that only 911's can enter (for example) it just turns into *another* Porche race, the same way GT was heading and every other GT like serise, yes 911's are good, but they are very much the cop out car, and do very little to attract an audience int he same way the Mosler/TVR/Marcos/Morgan/etc entries do.
this is not to say I was 100% happy with how this years race was run, you can always improve on anything, and next year I look forward to it taking another step forward. One this I have found with James and the team is that whist I may not always agree with them, you know that they have at least listened to what you have to say and at the end of the day, they have to make the hard decisions.
Take your point re: Porsche's and budget. I don't think anyone would claim an all Porsche 911 grid would draw the crowds however we can all work towards everyone racing for the win...
You said it yourself that the TJH car was 7th overall - exactly - so give them the same fuel and trim the fuel of the top class cars. It would be easy to police - just have some officials at each of the 4 pumps. They simply can't put more than X litres in.
That has absolutely no affect on budget - but what it does mean is that everyone is racing to win and that means the whole thing is exciting for all concerned.
On the subject of budget - if you look at how some people are running in Britcar then actually I don't believe the Duller set up was poor value. Just look at the average Britcar race and you come to see how good value things like the BMW Z4 and Porsche 996's are. They are reliable and have good residual values. When you consider that there are many who have spunked untold thousands on self created V8 BMW's that blow up every week for some money is not the issue.
For those that money is an issue - why isn't there a kit car class? A Caterham type car would do very well and would cost peanuts.
You said it yourself that the TJH car was 7th overall - exactly - so give them the same fuel and trim the fuel of the top class cars. It would be easy to police - just have some officials at each of the 4 pumps. They simply can't put more than X litres in.
That has absolutely no affect on budget - but what it does mean is that everyone is racing to win and that means the whole thing is exciting for all concerned.
On the subject of budget - if you look at how some people are running in Britcar then actually I don't believe the Duller set up was poor value. Just look at the average Britcar race and you come to see how good value things like the BMW Z4 and Porsche 996's are. They are reliable and have good residual values. When you consider that there are many who have spunked untold thousands on self created V8 BMW's that blow up every week for some money is not the issue.
For those that money is an issue - why isn't there a kit car class? A Caterham type car would do very well and would cost peanuts.
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