Britcar Implodes!
Discussion
Ok, I'll admit my rude health comment was made after we had tried to enter a couple of the first few rounds only to be told that they were already oversubscribed.
I didn't realise at that time that the championship coordinators were allocating races on a seemingly discretionary basis to regular competitors who have supported Britcar from the beginning. If this is correct, it seems a very unusual way to maintain long term support and encourage new entrants.
I didn't realise at that time that the championship coordinators were allocating races on a seemingly discretionary basis to regular competitors who have supported Britcar from the beginning. If this is correct, it seems a very unusual way to maintain long term support and encourage new entrants.
"Implodes" seems a bit over the top, true, there seems to be some problems in the way the series is planned for 2007, but some of these issues are resolvable so IMHO, this is something of a "sun newspaper" sensational type, thread heading.
"Britcar teams disappointed" would have been much nearer the truth.
"Britcar teams disappointed" would have been much nearer the truth.
Dancin said:
OK then!
Can anybody tell me of another so called "Championship" that allocates races to drivers?
Can anybody tell me of another so called "Championship" that allocates races to drivers?
I don't think it exists elsewhere, some series may run a reserve system as we did in the heyday of Tuscans, but I'm not aware of this happening within any other series at present. This is one of the issues we are trying to change but it could be difficult if the series goes ahead as currently envisaged. The question one needs to ask is, how reliable are the proposed entry figures? for if the fall out rate is say 25% then places will become available and with the EERC's ability to adapt to changes
, a number of the present problems could find themselves resolved in one form or another. For example, lets assume that only 75% of the stated entries make the grid for race 1, lets add in a few reserves and some that were not originally "allocated". Lets throw in a few "offs" and failures, and the possibility of the disenchanted from race 1, race 2 then has even more capability to support new entries etc etc. When and if this happens, the EERC will have to consider changing the goal posts on how the championship point system works as teams and drivers will be taking up the grid slots and competing in more rounds, for vacant grid slots cost the EERC money. The ability to drop a bad round score will then come into play as it will be the only sensible option that is fair to all, so in a round about way, a number of these issue could sort themselves out as time goes on if the grids currently indicated are in fact 25% loaded/unqualified. If the grids are 100% correct then the EERC has a major problem initially, for it is in one respect over subscribed from day one and the very real problems that people are concerned about will take a toll, ironically this could also lead to changes that eventually help to resolve the problems but it's far from the best way of dealing with it.
In hindsight, the better option would have been to keep GT3 and GT cup as a separate series, safety issues alone make this a sensible option, and I believe that the teams and drivers competing with these cars would be capable of at least putting down a deposit for a seasons racing or as they do in BGT, pay up front. In BGT cup class the seasons fee is £10k but if you do each round you get £3k back so at a net £7k it's not that bad, and your grid slot is sorted from day one. Classes 1 and 2 in production need not adopt the same system, but there are enough GT3 and GT cup cars who prefer to race outside of BGT with their tyre connections, to support a healthy top class series, IMHO.
Racing Rod said:
In hindsight, the better option would have been to keep GT3 and GT cup as a separate series, safety issues alone make this a sensible option,
there's the rub, then you end up with half empty grids.... double the cost for the ones that are there...
I agree the situation is not ideal, but being realistic, without paying a shed load more, IU am not sure what the alternative is....
scuffers said:
Racing Rod said:
In hindsight, the better option would have been to keep GT3 and GT cup as a separate series, safety issues alone make this a sensible option,
there's the rub, then you end up with half empty grids.... double the cost for the ones that are there...
I agree the situation is not ideal, but being realistic, without paying a shed load more, IU am not sure what the alternative is....
Hi Simon,
It's a bit of a bugger isn't it, not sure I agree with your half full grids though, as by separating GT3 and GT Cup from production 1 and 2, as suggested, one could see grids of say 25/30+ each if we believe the entry levels to date. Your worry is that we would come down to 15 cars per grid and I agree, that would not be good at all, but this would also suggest that 50% of those registered would withdraw, and I find that hard to believe. I must admit to being far happier with the prospect of racing with 30 odd cars of similar performance, which in my book would be somewhat safer, then racing with 50 odd cars where up to half involved could be dramatically slower in terms of lap times.
scuffers said:
I agree the situation is not ideal, but being realistic, without paying a shed load more, IU am not sure what the alternative is....
Stick to the rules, stop meddling and allow people to enter the championship (doing all the rounds and dropping scores as necessary) on a first come first served basis.
I think the first few rounds are going to be packed out. The last few deserted.
Better to turn people away from an active and dynamic championship with full grids right up to the last round with lots of people still in contention for honours than have uncertainty and dissent in the ranks from the off. With different people racing on different circuits at different times you`ll hardly see some of your fellow competitors !
Why does it always have to be so complicated in Britcar, don`t try to re-invent the wheel or argue blue is green.
Henry
Edited by Henry-F on Thursday 15th February 11:15
Henry, you make things seem so easy...... come to think of it on this case they are! Allow over subscription on the registrations. James has done this so he has seen a nice income stream. Accept race entries on a first come first served basis (like EVERYONE ELSE DOES) and if the grids are full it is impossible to generate more money. If people are turned away because the grids are full and the championship thriving then they are much more likely to come back the following year than if the whole thing dissolves into bikkering AND small grids.
Any competitor that suffers two DNF's is unlikely to bother competing in the remaining championship rounds. Bearing in mind that the grids are supposidly full, there are large speed differentials and it is 2 hour races I believe there will be a fair number of retirements. Under the original rules we had two chances, now we have none! In addition, who reckons Combe will have less competition than the Brands A1 support race? I do so I want Combe, not Brands. Its all legal under James new rules but what a complete farce!
Anyone seen the regs yet........?
Cheers,
Richard.
Any competitor that suffers two DNF's is unlikely to bother competing in the remaining championship rounds. Bearing in mind that the grids are supposidly full, there are large speed differentials and it is 2 hour races I believe there will be a fair number of retirements. Under the original rules we had two chances, now we have none! In addition, who reckons Combe will have less competition than the Brands A1 support race? I do so I want Combe, not Brands. Its all legal under James new rules but what a complete farce!
Anyone seen the regs yet........?
Cheers,
Richard.
No, not seen the final regs, BUT, just seen an advert in Autosport inviting further entry for Production S1, I thought the grids were full!!!
Opps, just found out that the above refers to a completely different series in it's own right, so this is not part of Britcar, sorry to have inadvertently mislead anyone.
Opps, just found out that the above refers to a completely different series in it's own right, so this is not part of Britcar, sorry to have inadvertently mislead anyone.
Edited by Racing Rod on Thursday 15th February 16:45
Looking at the MST times there's no more than 20 secs between the very fastest car in britcar and the slowest in PS1, with the top 8 PS1 cars being no more than 10secs behind and faster than the bottom half of the Britcar field! I personally think combining the 2 is the right way to go and will make it more challenging. I did the Birkett and was overtaking 10-15cars per lap, some of which were 25 secs slower and to be honest it made it all the more interesting.
taffyracer said:
Looking at the MST times there's no more than 20 secs between the very fastest car in britcar and the slowest in PS1, with the top 8 PS1 cars being no more than 10secs behind and faster than the bottom half of the Britcar field! I personally think combining the 2 is the right way to go and will make it more challenging. I did the Birkett and was overtaking 10-15cars per lap, some of which were 25 secs slower and to be honest it made it all the more interesting.
I'll follow you then
Posted on the eerc site
www.eerc.co.uk/cms/news.php
The web sites are at it again,
The 'Creative Licence' has obviousley been given to an indivdual who wishes to stur the pot, for his own personnel gain.
If he wishes the sport to take him seriously maybe he should look at the damage he is doing and be constructive, rather than airing in public something that should be discussed in private debate.
This matter has got so serious over the last few years, the MSA is looking at the wording in the Blue Book with ref: Bringing the sport into Disrepute.
It is fine to discuss any part of our sport, in the bar or on the phone,
but the use of forums only undermines the whole purpose of free speech and the democratic right of reply.
The club has no right of reply, nor the officials, so by using my name or for that matter anyone else's, is a slurr on that person's character.
The real truth is, because of inuendo and false truths, people will loose friends and access to places they currently enjoy
www.eerc.co.uk/cms/news.php
The web sites are at it again,
The 'Creative Licence' has obviousley been given to an indivdual who wishes to stur the pot, for his own personnel gain.
If he wishes the sport to take him seriously maybe he should look at the damage he is doing and be constructive, rather than airing in public something that should be discussed in private debate.
This matter has got so serious over the last few years, the MSA is looking at the wording in the Blue Book with ref: Bringing the sport into Disrepute.
It is fine to discuss any part of our sport, in the bar or on the phone,
but the use of forums only undermines the whole purpose of free speech and the democratic right of reply.
The club has no right of reply, nor the officials, so by using my name or for that matter anyone else's, is a slurr on that person's character.
The real truth is, because of inuendo and false truths, people will loose friends and access to places they currently enjoy
mickholly1 said:
The club has no right of reply, nor the officials, so by using my name or for that matter anyone else's, is a slurr on that person's character.
erm isnt the point of a forum that everyone has right of reply ?? whats stopping the club or its officials contributing. Im sorry but the geni of the internet is out of the bag and organisations need to learn how to use it properly and not bury their heads in the sand saying ohhh nasty internet...
Havent we been here before? We have had the ability to comment on issues on the "official" EERC website forum removed due to the fact that someone didn't like the critisism. We are now gettting berated for having an open and honest debate over these issues on a website where the "officials" cannot reply!
Are these the same officials who have been on this website asking for contributions to thier charity, asking us to bear with them on 24 hour issues, and the like. I note also that there is not a signature or name present to help us identify who is having thier name taken in vain! they cannot condemn this forum on one hand whilst using it for thier own means with the other!
Please feel free to reply, if we are missing the point then please come on here, ask questions, understand the concerns,and enlighten us and help to clarify the concerns or at least explain the need for some of the decisions.
This is an era of free speech and I fail to see how the "Blue book" is going to charge members of the public with bringing the sport into disrepute.
There Now. Said it and got it off my chest.
Feel better now.
Are these the same officials who have been on this website asking for contributions to thier charity, asking us to bear with them on 24 hour issues, and the like. I note also that there is not a signature or name present to help us identify who is having thier name taken in vain! they cannot condemn this forum on one hand whilst using it for thier own means with the other!
Please feel free to reply, if we are missing the point then please come on here, ask questions, understand the concerns,and enlighten us and help to clarify the concerns or at least explain the need for some of the decisions.
This is an era of free speech and I fail to see how the "Blue book" is going to charge members of the public with bringing the sport into disrepute.
There Now. Said it and got it off my chest.
Feel better now.
And of course they do have the right to reply and let us all know what the regs say and such like Claire Williams is a member of this forum after all
Nickname: clairew60
Name: Claire Williams
Member Since: 24th February 2006
Total Posts: 13
Region: Surrey
Country: United Kingdom
My Website: www.eerc.co.uk
Nickname: clairew60
Name: Claire Williams
Member Since: 24th February 2006
Total Posts: 13
Region: Surrey
Country: United Kingdom
My Website: www.eerc.co.uk
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