Is F1 boring or not?
Discussion
In time honoured tradition, time to drift off-topic:
I reckon it will be a power struggle between Alonso and Raikkonen, similar to '05 but with the factors evened up a bit.
Lewis will be snapping at Fernando's heels on occasion, whilst Massa will be consistent but not in the same league.
Honda look to be having problems, I fear a repeat of the last couple of years, whilst Renault will be thereabouts, maybe posting one or two wins. BMW will come close to breaking their duck, perhaps in the way BAR did in '04.
Williams will show up Toyota, whilst Red Bull will consolidate, Webber putting in the odd qually time with Coulthard leading the way in the races and by mid season Toro Rosso keeping them honest like last year.
It will be a good season but rows over customer cars and green technology will keep the racing out of the headlines on several weekends.
I reckon it will be a power struggle between Alonso and Raikkonen, similar to '05 but with the factors evened up a bit.
Lewis will be snapping at Fernando's heels on occasion, whilst Massa will be consistent but not in the same league.
Honda look to be having problems, I fear a repeat of the last couple of years, whilst Renault will be thereabouts, maybe posting one or two wins. BMW will come close to breaking their duck, perhaps in the way BAR did in '04.
Williams will show up Toyota, whilst Red Bull will consolidate, Webber putting in the odd qually time with Coulthard leading the way in the races and by mid season Toro Rosso keeping them honest like last year.
It will be a good season but rows over customer cars and green technology will keep the racing out of the headlines on several weekends.
A perennial question - and my usual stock answer these days.
Whatever about lack of overtaking (which was never really very common in F1 anyway), the main thing about modern F1 is that the cars are dull to watch. I captured a glimpse of various Senna/Mansell/Prost spats from 1989/90 on youtube ysterday and the whole thing looked far, far more dynamic than the modern "glued on track" projectiles. Although I KNOW moderrn F1 cars are faster than those of 1990, they certainly don't look it.
Watching Senna et all FIGHTING their cars through the Peraltada at Mexico - with the steering wheel juddering and the suspension compressing and the cars bottomming and the sparks flying just LOOKED so much more dramatic - and there was hardly any overtaking despite all that.
Whatever about lack of overtaking (which was never really very common in F1 anyway), the main thing about modern F1 is that the cars are dull to watch. I captured a glimpse of various Senna/Mansell/Prost spats from 1989/90 on youtube ysterday and the whole thing looked far, far more dynamic than the modern "glued on track" projectiles. Although I KNOW moderrn F1 cars are faster than those of 1990, they certainly don't look it.
Watching Senna et all FIGHTING their cars through the Peraltada at Mexico - with the steering wheel juddering and the suspension compressing and the cars bottomming and the sparks flying just LOOKED so much more dramatic - and there was hardly any overtaking despite all that.
Edited by Eric Mc on Sunday 4th March 01:01
As ever, Eric is spot on the money.
F1 as a pantomime is still amusing, and the qualifying session is still a good hour's worth of excitment. But the race itself has not worth any more attention than leaving the tv on in the background for many years.
Perhaps it is time for the FIA to provide standard wings with minimal downforce (just enough to keep the cars from taking off at 200mph) and regulating un-sticky tyres, then the cars will move around a bit more and make it a spectacle again. There must also be a way of liberalising the rules to prevent the cars all looking and sounding the same.
F1 as a pantomime is still amusing, and the qualifying session is still a good hour's worth of excitment. But the race itself has not worth any more attention than leaving the tv on in the background for many years.
Perhaps it is time for the FIA to provide standard wings with minimal downforce (just enough to keep the cars from taking off at 200mph) and regulating un-sticky tyres, then the cars will move around a bit more and make it a spectacle again. There must also be a way of liberalising the rules to prevent the cars all looking and sounding the same.
Truckosaurus said:
As ever, Eric is spot on the money.
F1 as a pantomime is still amusing, and the qualifying session is still a good hour's worth of excitment. But the race itself has not worth any more attention than leaving the tv on in the background for many years.
Perhaps it is time for the FIA to provide standard wings with minimal downforce (just enough to keep the cars from taking off at 200mph) and regulating un-sticky tyres, then the cars will move around a bit more and make it a spectacle again. There must also be a way of liberalising the rules to prevent the cars all looking and sounding the same.
F1 as a pantomime is still amusing, and the qualifying session is still a good hour's worth of excitment. But the race itself has not worth any more attention than leaving the tv on in the background for many years.
Perhaps it is time for the FIA to provide standard wings with minimal downforce (just enough to keep the cars from taking off at 200mph) and regulating un-sticky tyres, then the cars will move around a bit more and make it a spectacle again. There must also be a way of liberalising the rules to prevent the cars all looking and sounding the same.
AAAhhhh, you must mean GP2 then........single seaters where you can see the driver working for a living.
F1 has lost his, oops, sorry, ITS way.The drama has gone to be replaced by a total media circus put on for the corporate vips.
Sad - but true.
I doubt if the situation will ever be recovered. Bernie's solution to dwindling interest in the traditional home of F1 i.e Europe, is to find "new" interest in areas of world where F1 and indeed, ANY motor sport, has a novelty and "trendiness" value.
Obviously, that strategy has a finite life - but probably a life long enough to see Bernie through to his ultimate "retirement".
I doubt if the situation will ever be recovered. Bernie's solution to dwindling interest in the traditional home of F1 i.e Europe, is to find "new" interest in areas of world where F1 and indeed, ANY motor sport, has a novelty and "trendiness" value.
Obviously, that strategy has a finite life - but probably a life long enough to see Bernie through to his ultimate "retirement".
Last year I gave up on F1, after more than 30 years. It fails on nearly every level:
- You can't see the drivers' skill.
- You can't see the tactics unfolding.
- You can't see competition. Cars side-by-side is competiton - not fifty yards apart
- Whilst the sound and speed of an F1 car is impressive in the flesh, TV just cannot translate that.
And let's not even get started on how it long ago ceased to be a true sport, and is now more akin to WWF wrestling than any Olympic principles.
Many other series do offer these - GP2, ChampCar, WTCC, even IRL and Nextel Cup (once you begin to understand what's going on), and of course WSBK and MotoGP. The skill is obvious, the competition is apparent, and even TV cannot diminish the presence. So yes, F1 is boring. But it's F1's problem, not motorsport as a whole.
- You can't see the drivers' skill.
- You can't see the tactics unfolding.
- You can't see competition. Cars side-by-side is competiton - not fifty yards apart
- Whilst the sound and speed of an F1 car is impressive in the flesh, TV just cannot translate that.
And let's not even get started on how it long ago ceased to be a true sport, and is now more akin to WWF wrestling than any Olympic principles.
Many other series do offer these - GP2, ChampCar, WTCC, even IRL and Nextel Cup (once you begin to understand what's going on), and of course WSBK and MotoGP. The skill is obvious, the competition is apparent, and even TV cannot diminish the presence. So yes, F1 is boring. But it's F1's problem, not motorsport as a whole.
I really don't understand how we come to have a thread like this on a website like Pistonheads.
How could anybody in their right mind could describe modern 800 bhp GP cars running within inches of eachother at 200 mph as boring? If you're trying to address the issue of closer racing/more overtaking, well that's something else entirely, more to do with an entertainment or sport type debate.
Get on the outside of the entry to Copse for the first couple of laps of the Grand Prix at Silverstone this year, and tell me it's boring. Are you mad?
How could anybody in their right mind could describe modern 800 bhp GP cars running within inches of eachother at 200 mph as boring? If you're trying to address the issue of closer racing/more overtaking, well that's something else entirely, more to do with an entertainment or sport type debate.
Get on the outside of the entry to Copse for the first couple of laps of the Grand Prix at Silverstone this year, and tell me it's boring. Are you mad?
ph123 said:
I really don't understand how we come to have a thread like this on a website like Pistonheads.
How could anybody in their right mind could describe modern 800 bhp GP cars running within inches of eachother at 200 mph as boring? If you're trying to address the issue of closer racing/more overtaking, well that's something else entirely, more to do with an entertainment or sport type debate.
Get on the outside of the entry to Copse for the first couple of laps of the Grand Prix at Silverstone this year, and tell me it's boring. Are you mad?
How could anybody in their right mind could describe modern 800 bhp GP cars running within inches of eachother at 200 mph as boring? If you're trying to address the issue of closer racing/more overtaking, well that's something else entirely, more to do with an entertainment or sport type debate.
Get on the outside of the entry to Copse for the first couple of laps of the Grand Prix at Silverstone this year, and tell me it's boring. Are you mad?
Yep, that's about as much as most of us can be bothered to watch!!
World Superbikes were awesome today!!!
ph123 said:
How could anybody in their right mind could describe modern 800 bhp GP cars running within inches of eachother at 200 mph as boring?
Well a good starting point is that they're not running within inches. Inches is 29 Nextel Cup cars running three-wide, 2 seconds front to rear (after 495 miles of racing). Inches are what two or three IRL races are won by each year. Inches are what your butt should leap off the sofa as James Toseland dives under Troy Bayliss into the Adelaide Hairpin, and Nitro takes it three-wide on the exit.
And while we're at it, inches are not a measure of how far the back end should be out of shape. In all the series I mentioned earlier, you can see the cars or bikes moving around - you can actually see how much the driver/rider is working to hold their mount on the limitIf you can't see for yourself how skilful the drivers are, how are you supposed to be impressed by their skill?
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