British GT or Britcar ?
Discussion
Racingdude009 said:
Just wondered what people throught was the best for money and track time ?
I've never been to a Britcar event, but I've been tp a couple of the BGT last year. I have to say that they were more than worth the money spent. I'll be at Oulton park again for the weekend in April. As a father of 3 I have to say that £38 for a weekends camping plus 2 days of racing is certainly amazing value for money
ahonen said:
Racingdude009 said:
Just wondered what people throught was the best for money and track time ?
As a driver? Britcar is cheaper, BGT is more professional. You need to have a look at Britcar race lengths for this year, which I'm not aware of at the mo.
BGT is basically what Rattel wants it to be, much the same as Britcar is James toy....
scuffers said:
ahonen said:
Racingdude009 said:
Just wondered what people throught was the best for money and track time ?
As a driver? Britcar is cheaper, BGT is more professional. You need to have a look at Britcar race lengths for this year, which I'm not aware of at the mo.
I'll reword it to say that there's greater strength in depth in BGT.
ahonen said:
scuffers said:
ahonen said:
Racingdude009 said:
Just wondered what people throught was the best for money and track time ?
As a driver? Britcar is cheaper, BGT is more professional. You need to have a look at Britcar race lengths for this year, which I'm not aware of at the mo.
I'll reword it to say that there's greater strength in depth in BGT.
But I assume that that was across several wide ranging classes? If Britcar grows to the point where there is a solely GT (type) grid what would be the difference between that and BGT that would render BGT redundant? Would that not just water both series down?
And if as is remarked earlier the BGT package is promoted badly how do the crowd attendances compare with Britcar? I have never been to a Britcar round so I don't know. Britcar strikes me almost as 'run what ya brung' type racing with a poorly defined class structure?
And if as is remarked earlier the BGT package is promoted badly how do the crowd attendances compare with Britcar? I have never been to a Britcar round so I don't know. Britcar strikes me almost as 'run what ya brung' type racing with a poorly defined class structure?
Simon, you are probably fair in your summary of what Britcar is.
I think this year will be interesting and the start of a significant change in the perception of Britcar.
1) It is now a championship
2) It has some TV
3) It is part of better promoted race events such as Dunlop Great and British on three occasions
4) The 24 hours is getting established as part of the UK calendar
5) In 2006, Britcar GTC cars were faster than BGT-C cars, both over one lap and a race distance (ie: tyres)
I think this year will be interesting and the start of a significant change in the perception of Britcar.
1) It is now a championship
2) It has some TV
3) It is part of better promoted race events such as Dunlop Great and British on three occasions
4) The 24 hours is getting established as part of the UK calendar
5) In 2006, Britcar GTC cars were faster than BGT-C cars, both over one lap and a race distance (ie: tyres)
redlake27 said:
I think Britcar will grow to a point that there is no need for BGT.
Most of the GT3 teams will find the international stage more enticing than poorly promoted UK events and migrate there long term.
GT only had 22 cars at the opener, Britcar had 43....................
Most of the GT3 teams will find the international stage more enticing than poorly promoted UK events and migrate there long term.
GT only had 22 cars at the opener, Britcar had 43....................
Good one. Ah but Britcar had 23 cars in its GT classes, while BGT had 22. BGT will have five more cars at Donington.
Britcar is a cracking series and one we've dipped into more than once, but comparing the two championships is rather like apples and oranges.
Edited by ahonen on Monday 9th April 21:06
redlake I don't think the British teams will all migrate to FIA GT and leave Brit GT. The costs of running in Europe and beyond are significantly more and the British series is thriving.
Poorly promoted? Not sure I get that point? I have seen articles and competitions in Evo, Autocar and Metro last year and I didn't see that happening much in previous years? Also my friend who lives on the outskirts of Manchester said he had seen a couple of pieces on the Oulton round this year and last.
I don't think Britcar has quite attracted the same standard of cars either, Donington should see Lamborghini, Aston, Mosler, Ferrari, Porsche, Lotus, Morgan, Marcos, Ascari, Dodge, and Ginneta represented.
Poorly promoted? Not sure I get that point? I have seen articles and competitions in Evo, Autocar and Metro last year and I didn't see that happening much in previous years? Also my friend who lives on the outskirts of Manchester said he had seen a couple of pieces on the Oulton round this year and last.
I don't think Britcar has quite attracted the same standard of cars either, Donington should see Lamborghini, Aston, Mosler, Ferrari, Porsche, Lotus, Morgan, Marcos, Ascari, Dodge, and Ginneta represented.
On average, in 2006, British GT races had smaller crowds than Great and British events. The latter doesn't have future F1 stars (F3) or supercars racing (well, it will with Britcar adding to the package in 07), but it pulls in a crowd.
SRO just don't make an effort. I live less than an hour from Oulton and Donington, but didn't see any promotion of the 2006 meetings - and I was looking because I was racing at them !
SRO just don't make an effort. I live less than an hour from Oulton and Donington, but didn't see any promotion of the 2006 meetings - and I was looking because I was racing at them !
redlake27 said:
On average, in 2006, British GT races had smaller crowds than Great and British events. The latter doesn't have future F1 stars (F3) or supercars racing (well, it will with Britcar adding to the package in 07), but it pulls in a crowd.
SRO just don't make an effort. I live less than an hour from Oulton and Donington, but didn't see any promotion of the 2006 meetings - and I was looking because I was racing at them !
SRO just don't make an effort. I live less than an hour from Oulton and Donington, but didn't see any promotion of the 2006 meetings - and I was looking because I was racing at them !
Redlake27
I have read your posts and feel that your claim that British GT has smaller crowds than Britcar and DG&B and there is no promotion for the events is way off mark.
Oulton Park last year attracted 15,000 for the season opener with 60 minute queues into the track and MSV ran out of printed tickets by mid morning. The promotional package for this meeting was huge and was a combination of MSV, SRO and Performance PR (Avon Tyres PR Company) working together to maximise the coverage. You might not have seen any promotion but obviously 15,000 people did.
The crowd at Donington was smaller but once again there was local and national promotional for this event. Despite the heavy rain that obviously put a lot of people off travelling to the circuit, over 6000 turned up to watch some great racing.
As most people on PH now know, I'm the Press & PR Manager for the Avon Tyres British GT Championship and the Lloyds TSB Insurance British F3 International Series and I feel that is important for members of this forum to know that when they read my posts - I have a vested interest in promoting the two championships here on PH (which by the way are the official media partner of both series).
Redlake27, I don't have a problem with Britcar or the Dunlop Great and British series, long may they continue, and they have an important place alongside the BTCC and F3/GT packages on the National Racing Calendar. However,I feel it is a bit underhanded to try and promote one series by having a go at another, especially when the information used to justify the argument is clearly untrue, and this is certainly something I would never stoop to as a PR professional.
Jeff Carter
Press & PR Manager
Avon Tyres British GT Championship
Lloyds TSB Insurance British F3 International Series
Edited by macsport on Tuesday 10th April 13:47
Thanks for your reply Jeff.
Yes, I have a bias too, being actively involved in Great and British as one of the founding consortium and having personally competed in both G+B and SRO events in the last two years.
Just to clarify, I did not make a claim that Britcar has bigger crowds than B-GT. It clearly hasn't, yet.
I was making a comparison between Great and British and British GT. Despite 2006 British GT having the lure of great supercars and the prospect of seeing future F1 stars in F3, the crowds at the SRO meetings at Donington, Silverstone and Thruxton were lower than such a package deserves. The peak Great and British audience was 7000 spectators (Thruxton) through solid PR and promotional work, with large crowds at Brands Hatch and Croft in particular.
My frustration with SRO stemmed from being a competitor in a support series to B-GT. One can accept second-string treatment in the paddock and on the timetable if the main event is drawing a crowd that also boosts support championships own exposure. However, at Silverstone and Donington in particular the support races on B-GT were playing to a crowd comparable to a clubbie event.
It was this that led to the creation of Great and British, with solid promotion and PR support. However, in 2006 I admit that Great and British needed more variety on the bill, and the addition of Britcar at certain events (as well as Westfield and Sport Maxx prodsaloons) in 2007 will add to the mix of action.
I'm glad that B-GT is now taking promotion seriously with the appointment of a dedicated PR Manager. It is just such a shame that this didn't happen a couple of years ago, because then we could have pooled the resources that have since gone into B-GT and Great and British and created something huge..............
James Bailey
Yes, I have a bias too, being actively involved in Great and British as one of the founding consortium and having personally competed in both G+B and SRO events in the last two years.
Just to clarify, I did not make a claim that Britcar has bigger crowds than B-GT. It clearly hasn't, yet.
I was making a comparison between Great and British and British GT. Despite 2006 British GT having the lure of great supercars and the prospect of seeing future F1 stars in F3, the crowds at the SRO meetings at Donington, Silverstone and Thruxton were lower than such a package deserves. The peak Great and British audience was 7000 spectators (Thruxton) through solid PR and promotional work, with large crowds at Brands Hatch and Croft in particular.
My frustration with SRO stemmed from being a competitor in a support series to B-GT. One can accept second-string treatment in the paddock and on the timetable if the main event is drawing a crowd that also boosts support championships own exposure. However, at Silverstone and Donington in particular the support races on B-GT were playing to a crowd comparable to a clubbie event.
It was this that led to the creation of Great and British, with solid promotion and PR support. However, in 2006 I admit that Great and British needed more variety on the bill, and the addition of Britcar at certain events (as well as Westfield and Sport Maxx prodsaloons) in 2007 will add to the mix of action.
I'm glad that B-GT is now taking promotion seriously with the appointment of a dedicated PR Manager. It is just such a shame that this didn't happen a couple of years ago, because then we could have pooled the resources that have since gone into B-GT and Great and British and created something huge..............
James Bailey
Hi my names chris patey, im 16 and a big racing fan, and travel to many events around the country, and visited Britcar at silverstone in march and also the first round of British GT at Oulton park, and yes British GT has the quicker more exotic cars but the grids comparied to Britcar are tiny, the support races are better at British GT especially with the formula 3000, but there isnt a great crowd support, last years final race at silverstone was practically empty but as was the Britcar 24hours which was dissapointing, more publicity is needed as the racing is deffinatly worth the money.
Britcar will guest at three Dunlop Great and British events this year, which will hopefully address your issue regarding the support package. Great and British has one make series such as the Mini Challenge and Radical, as well as the new Dunlop Sport Maxx production cup. It will be a fast paced day of sprint races, with a Britcar Enduro taking you into the evening. If this format is a success we hope to do more of the same in 2008.
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