F1 question

[trickywoo]

How would you feel if you were Jenson Button and you had just paid £20,000,000 to buy yourself out of a contract and the man who took your place finished the first race 8 places higher than you?

Hes going to be one sick puppy.

[kevin ritson]

But the Honda has more potential - Williams will always be at the whim of Toyota and unless they really impress and find a works deal (tricky considering there aren't any manufacturers that want to be wooed in), I can't see them challenging for the championship until the current manufacturer era is over. And I suspect the personnel, even management may be different by then.

Jenson's biggest problem is being in F1 at a time when the top teams are undergoing a reshuffle. Williams have vacated their place, Renault are hanging on, apart from Ferrari and McLaren it's a free for all for the first time since the decline of Lotus.

Edited by kevin ritson on Monday 19th March 09:43

[fidgits]

to be honest, i think Button is more sick about Hamilton...

that kid seems like he might be able to devilver on the hype - so while button spends a season complaining about his car, if Hamilton continues to deliver, he knows all the focus and attention will go away, and he'll be left for what he is...

an average F1 driver with just a single race win under his belt who believes his own hype...

[Calorus]

I agree with that, not to mention the simple fact that - in his mind - had he been driving an Aguri, he'd have been at least in Rosberg's league, and that from here on in, if the Aguri seems faster - they'll wind back some of the modifications that they can. The chassis is apparently perfectly fine, it's the Aeropac that's causing issues, alledgedly. When he said they had added 2 clicks but there was no extra grip, it should have been extremely reassuring - a stalling front wing is probably the easiest part on the car to regress to an earlier specification, as most of the element is proud of the car. The only issue is the effect on the airflow that it conditioned, but I suspect that if the current wing is spitting out turbulent flow, anything would be an improvement.

[nickjm]

fidgits said:

to be honest, i think Button is more sick about Hamilton...

that kid seems like he might be able to devilver on the hype - so while button spends a season complaining about his car, if Hamilton continues to deliver, he knows all the focus and attention will go away, and he'll be left for what he is...

an average F1 driver with just a single race win under his belt who believes his own hype...

Question then, how do you think Button would do in the current McLaren?

[fidgits]

nickjm said:

fidgits said:

to be honest, i think Button is more sick about Hamilton...

that kid seems like he might be able to devilver on the hype - so while button spends a season complaining about his car, if Hamilton continues to deliver, he knows all the focus and attention will go away, and he'll be left for what he is...

an average F1 driver with just a single race win under his belt who believes his own hype...

Question then, how do you think Button would do in the current McLaren?

impossible to say.

But the fact is, the Honda was a good car last season, and he was still average.

I will say though, if it was Alonso vs Button in the same car - Alonso would win 9 times out of 10 - I cant possibly comment on Hamilton as he's only run one race, and in all honesty, could go the same way as Button (lets hope not eh?).

[magic torch]

It's different for Hamilton, his driving is doing the talking, so there's no need for us to speculate.

[fidgits]

magic torch said:

It's different for Hamilton, his driving is doing the talking, so there's no need for us to speculate.

yeah, thats what i liked about him - he carried himself in a professional manner without bigging himself up (when asked if he thought he could beat Alonso he just said "A racing driver always wants to win" and demonstrated his abilities at the weekend.

I truely hope he keeps that attitude and proves to be as good as he appears - the fear is if he continues to do well, the hype will increase, and if he ends up doing a Button and believing his own hype, sunning himself on yachts then his driving will suffer, which would be a waste of the talent..

[magic torch]

I'm speculating here, but it would seem Hamilton's upbringing is very different to Button's.

I love how humble he appears, and generally excited to be in F1. Seems a great guy, very happy to support him.

[Calorus]

magic torch said:

I'm speculating here, but it would seem Hamilton's upbringing is very different to Button's.

I love how humble he appears, and generally excited to be in F1. Seems a great guy, very happy to support him.

Erm, no - they're basically identical - except Hamilton got on the McLaren gravy trin from his teens.

[magic torch]

Calorus said:

magic torch said:

I'm speculating here, but it would seem Hamilton's upbringing is very different to Button's.

I love how humble he appears, and generally excited to be in F1. Seems a great guy, very happy to support him.

Erm, no - they're basically identical - except Hamilton got on the McLaren gravy trin from his teens.

Erm, no.

Anthony Hamilton said:

He's still a feet-on-the-ground kid and he will remain that way, as long as I've got something to do with it.

I don't want him to lose focus on the job. The job is motor racing, it's taken us 13 years to get here and that's all he'll ever think about, nothing else. The thing is, that's what makes him superb and I'll do everything to defend that.

[muzzer]

nickjm said:

fidgits said:

to be honest, i think Button is more sick about Hamilton...

that kid seems like he might be able to devilver on the hype - so while button spends a season complaining about his car, if Hamilton continues to deliver, he knows all the focus and attention will go away, and he'll be left for what he is...

an average F1 driver with just a single race win under his belt who believes his own hype...

Question then, how do you think Button would do in the current McLaren?

I think most of the drivers on the grid would do well in a current McLaren or Ferrari.

Taking nothing away from Lewis, it demonstrates a lot about the current technical level of F1 that a rookie driver in his first race can take a podium and challenge the World Champion. Would you have seen that 20 years ago? Not a chance.

Button's a great driver - his style reminds me of Jackie Stewart - but without a decent car he's got two hopes. Would Lewis or Alonso have done well in the Honda on Sunday? Of course they wouldn't

Bring back slicks, bin the driver aids and limit aero - then you'd see who's good and who isn't.

[Calorus]

magic torch said:

Calorus said:

magic torch said:

I'm speculating here, but it would seem Hamilton's upbringing is very different to Button's.

I love how humble he appears, and generally excited to be in F1. Seems a great guy, very happy to support him.

Erm, no - they're basically identical - except Hamilton got on the McLaren gravy trin from his teens.

Erm, no.

Anthony Hamilton said:

He's still a feet-on-the-ground kid and he will remain that way, as long as I've got something to do with it.

I don't want him to lose focus on the job. The job is motor racing, it's taken us 13 years to get here and that's all he'll ever think about, nothing else. The thing is, that's what makes him superb and I'll do everything to defend that.

That's his personality, not his upbringing. My brother and I have identical ubringings and are far more different than Button and Hamilton.

They're both middle class Englishmen, with working, supportive petit-bourgois dads.

Edited by Calorus on Monday 19th March 10:20

[sleep envy]

Calorus said:

That's his personality, not his upbringing. My brother and I have identical ubringings and are far more different than Button and Hamilton.

They're both middle class Englishmen, with working, supportive petit-bourgois dads.

John Button?? Middle class?



he's got more gold on him than Elizabeth Duke

[rubystone]

fidgits said:

But the fact is, the Honda was a good car last season, and he was still average.

It only became good towards the end of the season when all but those teams still in the running curtailed their development of their 2006 cars. He still scored heavily, so not fair to say he was only average.

But as you say, the aero is the major issue - has been since Geoff Willis was given no choice but to resign.

Also, with engine specs frozen in most areas of development, for once, Williams should not be at a disadvantage to the manufacturer teams. In fact, given the budget Toyota has available to it to play with those areas that are allowed development, eg pistons, Williams have been very clever in tieing up with them. The FW27 looks a very tidy car - no nasty aero appendages, unlike the Honda.

[fidgits]

magic torch said:

I'm speculating here, but it would seem Hamilton's upbringing is very different to Button's.

I love how humble he appears, and generally excited to be in F1. Seems a great guy, very happy to support him.

oh i agree... I was very impressed with Hamilton, and I really hope he does well this season, he certainly deserves it!


However, you know this country and how quickly we put people on a pedastal - whether its Button, Tim Henman or Rooney, the moment someone shows reasonable performance people, and more importantly, the media whips it up into a storm of "next world champion" etc.


And as grounded as Lewis appears to be, once that media storm starts, and lets face it, unless he drops behind Jenson for the rest of the season, it will, he will have to be a very strong person not to get carried away with it. even more so considering he's only 22.


I sincerley hope he does, as I honestly believe if he keeps his current attitude, he could be a championship contender in the next few years - but only time will tell. Though, thankfully, with Alonso next to him, he has a role model of someone that managed to handle that much pressure on young shoulders, so here's fingers crossed for him.

[Calorus]

sleep envy said:

Calorus said:

That's his personality, not his upbringing. My brother and I have identical ubringings and are far more different than Button and Hamilton.

They're both middle class Englishmen, with working, supportive petit-bourgois dads.

John Button?? Middle class?



he's got more gold on him than Elizabeth Duke

Middle class has nothing to do with taste - but it does have everything to do with means. Anyone in a position to participate in motorsport is [at least] middle class, it's pretty difficult to afford a season of Formula Ford on income support.

Edited by Calorus on Monday 19th March 10:28

[fidgits]

Calorus said:

sleep envy said:

Calorus said:

That's his personality, not his upbringing. My brother and I have identical ubringings and are far more different than Button and Hamilton.

They're both middle class Englishmen, with working, supportive petit-bourgois dads.

John Button?? Middle class?



he's got more gold on him than Elizabeth Duke

Middle class has nothing to do with taste - but it does have everything to do with means. Anyone in a position to participate in motorsport is middleclass, it's pretty difficult to afford a season of Formula Ford on income support.

You mean, like, say, Hamilton's Dad that had 3 jobs so his son could compete in karting?

[Calorus]

fidgits said:

Calorus said:

sleep envy said:

Calorus said:

That's his personality, not his upbringing. My brother and I have identical ubringings and are far more different than Button and Hamilton.

They're both middle class Englishmen, with working, supportive petit-bourgois dads.

John Button?? Middle class?



he's got more gold on him than Elizabeth Duke

Middle class has nothing to do with taste - but it does have everything to do with means. Anyone in a position to participate in motorsport is middleclass, it's pretty difficult to afford a season of Formula Ford on income support.

You mean, like, say, Hamilton's Dad that had 3 jobs so his son could compete in karting?

By all accounts his Electrical Engineerig firm is older than his son's racing career - So I don't see your point.

[magic torch]

sleep envy said:

Calorus said:

That's his personality, not his upbringing. My brother and I have identical ubringings and are far more different than Button and Hamilton.

They're both middle class Englishmen, with working, supportive petit-bourgois dads.

John Button?? Middle class?



he's got more gold on him than Elizabeth Duke

Some of the stories you hear about the Buttons...

So you don't think your upbringing shapes your views? We'll have to agree to disagree.

It would seem Hamilton will be protected by Ron and his Dad to some extent.

If I was Button, I'd have bought my way out the contract, called Ron and said "I want to be world champion so much, I'm willing to drive for you for free". But, that's just me.