RE: GT4 cars are closely matched
RE: GT4 cars are closely matched
Wednesday 25th April 2007

GT4 cars are closely matched

Balance of performance test at Dijon


A new era of GT racing begins...
A new era of GT racing begins...
The GT4 European Cup had its ‘balance of performance’ test last week at the Dijon circuit in France. An Aston Martin N24, a Ford Mustang FR500 GT, Maserati Trofeo and a BMW Z4 M coupe took to the track for the test and proved closely matched straight out of the box.

The series kicks off on the 5-6 May at Silverstone during the Tourist trophy event and will support the FIA GT championship.

"Incredibly, all cars were perfectly matched," said Pascal Witmeur, the GT4 European Cup series manager for SRO. "After running for two days in ideal and equal conditions, there was hardly anything between any of the cars -- they were all within the same half a second! Kurt Mollekens, our test driver, carried out several runs of variable duration on new Pirelli tyres, and the performance between the cars was matched every time. So we're now going to freeze the tech specs of the cars which all offer an approximate 3.5 kg/hp power-to-weight ratio. This is really proof of the GT4 concept and we're now ready to go racing".

Stéphane Ratel, the Chairman of SRO Motorsports Group added: "We really wanted to launch the series this year as there was a clear demand from teams and competitors for a series combining a cost-effective format with upscale GT cars. The performance of the cars at Dijon testifies to the fact that the concept, based on GT3, is safe and sound. This first season will provide everyone with an opportunity to put things in motion and I believe we'll have an impressive grid of cars by the time we reach the last race of the series scheduled at Nogaro".

A Porsche Cayman and a Nissan 350Z should be out in time for Silverstone, with a Lotus Exige and Audi TT also in the pipeline for later in the year.

Author
Discussion

chalky180

Original Poster:

57 posts

241 months

Wednesday 25th April 2007
quotequote all
Sure this will be popular to watch as "everyday" cars for most people.....one of the the reasons why I enjoy the Gt3 at LeMans each year as as well as Lm 1 etc

GrahamG

1,091 posts

296 months

Wednesday 25th April 2007
quotequote all
GT3 doesn't race at Le Mans

orouge

22 posts

235 months

Wednesday 25th April 2007
quotequote all
I've forgotten what GT3 is. GT4 looks like another in the bewildering series of formulae with intricate rules which give lawyers endless employment. How about min 6hr duration events starting at midnight open to any 2 door coupe that has been in production for at least 3 years/5,000 examples?

GrahamG

1,091 posts

296 months

Wednesday 25th April 2007
quotequote all
Not surprising really

GT1 now used to be GT2 - The original GT1 is dead - GT2 includes cars called GT3s (Porsches) - as does GT3 - GT4 doesn't

Hope that's clear;-)

Maxwedge

361 posts

236 months

Wednesday 25th April 2007
quotequote all
Americans can build a car that competes with BMW and the Italians...I simply don't believe

rimmer

6,689 posts

235 months

Wednesday 25th April 2007
quotequote all
should be good to watch as it will be competitive

bennno

15,227 posts

298 months

Wednesday 25th April 2007
quotequote all
GrahamG said:
GT3 doesn't race at Le Mans


but half the field seem to be driving Porsche GT3's, which were named after their competing class

i expect the astons were on a half throttle for the mustangs to show similar performance

bennno

GrahamG

1,091 posts

296 months

Thursday 26th April 2007
quotequote all
The Porsche GT3 RSRs are actually GT2 class cars

bennno

15,227 posts

298 months

Thursday 26th April 2007
quotequote all

They may well be now, but when the 911 GT3 was released it ran in the GT3 class hence the designation.

The GT2 class at the time was full of 550 Maranello's and Vettes.

bennno

GrahamG

1,091 posts

296 months

Thursday 26th April 2007
quotequote all
I don't think I have said anything different have I?

They may well have used to be in a class called GT3 but - as my first post here said - GT3 doesn't run at le mans

rude-boy

22,227 posts

262 months

Thursday 26th April 2007
quotequote all
The fact that Porsche decided to name it’s car GT3 I ‘think’ was to reflect the class and the rules it was developed to compete in/to.

Over the years these have changed, yet Porsche has stuck with the GT3 name. Simple marketing from their side as put 1,000 in the room and tell them you are buying a GT3 and those that don’t look at you like you’ve just messed your pants will almost to a person assume that you are talking about a Porsche just as surely as they would assume it were a Maclaren if you said you’d bought an F1.

The rules of the game have changed as the cars have evolved and Porsche aren’t about to change their classification to match the current set of regs.

Getting back to the point at hand, GT1 as we knew it in the late 1990’s is as dead as Groupe 5 too many people taking the micky with the regs and adhering to the letter, just, but not the spirit of the regs meant that it had to go with spiralling costs. With this dead the cars that had previously been designated GT2 were now the top dogs and so became known as GT1 (sort of like what happened with Division One and the Premiership).

Today’s GT2, GT3 and now GT4 operate as, to my eyes, a clear ladder of progression for GT cars. Just as we used to have with F3, F2, F1 before the name changes there.

I do not know the ins and outs of the regulations for all of these but as each class progresses the number and scale of the deviations from the specification of the standard road car increases, as does the requisite production numbers of these cars.

covert ops

66 posts

244 months

Thursday 26th April 2007
quotequote all
Looking forward to seeing that Mustang!!

Just because I'm always ribbing a colleague that worships all things "muscle car" related.
(regardless of weight!)
So no doubt this will shut him up once and for all.

Covert Ops.


Edited by covert ops on Thursday 26th April 13:01

Kurgen

1,447 posts

263 months

Thursday 26th April 2007
quotequote all
Can anyone define the GT classes for me, in terms of power/weight/N/A/Turbos/mods allowed etc.?

Cheers
Rob

Kurgen

1,447 posts

263 months

Friday 27th April 2007
quotequote all
Nobody..!

Just that my GT2 was quite quick at Snett on wednesday, thought I might enter it at Le mans this year.

scuffers

20,887 posts

303 months

Sunday 29th April 2007
quotequote all
Kurgen said:
Nobody..!

Just that my GT2 was quite quick at Snett on wednesday, thought I might enter it at Le mans this year.

LOL it was mostly int he way from my perspective!

scuffers

20,887 posts

303 months

Sunday 29th April 2007
quotequote all
Kurgen said:
Can anyone define the GT classes for me, in terms of power/weight/N/A/Turbos/mods allowed etc.?

Cheers
Rob


GT3 does not have rules like that as such, basically you make a car, then submit it for approval, assuming you don't get other backs up (re:Moslel!) then you get to take it for parity testing, then jobs a carrot - assuming you are a manufacturer (or have their backing)

stephen300o

15,464 posts

257 months

Tuesday 1st May 2007
quotequote all
I like what there trying to do with the old style gt racing and can see why they threw the mosler out, the car should be a road gt prepared for race not a race car prepared for road, but is an exige a gt?. Equalising is always going to be difficult unless you put them all in the same car, but I think the grid is still up there with the heritage cars in the charisma department.

thunderbelmont

2,982 posts

253 months

Sunday 6th May 2007
quotequote all
stephen300o said:
I like what there trying to do with the old style gt racing and can see why they threw the mosler out, the car should be a road gt prepared for race not a race car prepared for road, but is an exige a gt?. Equalising is always going to be difficult unless you put them all in the same car, but I think the grid is still up there with the heritage cars in the charisma department.


But they let the ASCARI in. Which sets a precident, and Klaas said that they are only going to make a handful of the Ascari's, where Mosler will make as many as people want to buy, and hearing of the order book, that was quite a lot. Which is what really p'd off the "Grand Marques" like Ferrari/Aston/Jag/Ford/Porsche (should read Fiat/Ford/Ford/Ford/VW), so they objected and came up with a change in the rules before the Mosler was submitted for approval.

As for a Mosler on the road, just as practical as a Zonda, or a Koeningssssegsegsegseg, or similar totally impractical alleged road cars, if not more so. It's revolutionary design makes it a benchmark for durability and driver/passenger protection. I bet it'd score well in a Euro NCAP test.

With all cars being fuel injected these days, you can equalise them simply with an air restrictor based on the weight of the car. And limit the amount of fuel that a team can use in a race. If it has to breathe through a pinhole, it'll not produce mega power. If it produces megapower, it'll run out of fuel before the chequered flag. If it's got a mega downforce wing, that takes horsepower to pull it through the air, it'll run out of gas!

Personally, I'd rather see unbridled tuning within limits, and then fuel restrictions and weight limits. Let's see these GT's strut their stuff. And a Mustang ain't a GT. It's a bloody shopping car with a big hairy engine and 1950's technology in the suspenders department (should be fun!).

Dr JonboyG

2,561 posts

268 months

Sunday 6th May 2007
quotequote all
thunderbelmont said:
Which is what really p'd off the "Grand Marques" like Ferrari/Aston/Jag/Ford/Porsche (should read Fiat/Ford/Ford/Ford/VW)


I don't know where you get the idea that VW control Porsche - especially seeing as Porsche own 30% of VAG now and have just had to file a take over bid.

Sim89

1,615 posts

236 months

Sunday 6th May 2007
quotequote all
From what i saw from my marshal point that was the best race of the weekend

Sim