Pit stop timing

[Henry-F]

Not a competitor any more in Britcar but I have always thought the new pit stop timing rules are a total farce. How on earth do you time your pitsptop? I can think of ways to trigger an internal clock inside the car as you pass the designated mark (44 teams each with their own beacons placed there !!!!), but how do you then know exactly when to set off from your box so as to arrive at the designated exit mark exactly on time, especially if you are at the far end of the pit lane from the exit point. 1 second out & you are penalised 60 seconds.

Why oh why do Britcar have to re-invent the wheel all the time. Static timing is easy. Marshals on the pit wall can easily time all or some of the stops (you never know when you are being timed & so will make sure you are spot on), and pit lane speed limits are enforced in the usual manner.

Henry

[KEET]

Hi Henry, you are right with your comments about the pitstop timings, we used a system where the driver called as he entered the pitlane and a stopwatch was activated, unfortunately for us we were one second short and penalised accordingly. I think the old method of being stationary for a given period worked much better! Hope to see you back out there soon. Keith.

[jeremyc]

Henry-F said:

... but how do you then know exactly when to set off from your box so as to arrive at the designated exit mark exactly on time, especially if you are at the far end of the pit lane from the exit point. 1 second out & you are penalised 60 seconds.

Surely you can simply time how long it takes to get from your pit box to the pit exit during practice or on test days. Simply add a couple of seconds to be safe (and to mitigate driver race-induced adrenalin ) and you're set.

I'll wait for that callup as Team Manager ....

[mattbmw]

For what is it worth I disagree.

Competitors last year admitted to intentially short stopping because they knew they were not being timed in their pitbox. We found out too late to protest...and it was not possible to tell clearly from the timing sheet...that is not the case now.

The current solution is not ideal, but with pit to car radios, it shouldn't be too difficult to time from pit entry to exit. However, something my team thought of - what if you get to the exit too early and have to stop at the line and you've a fellow competitor behind you, potential pile up!!!

[Henry-F]

mattbmw said:

For what is it worth I disagree.

Competitors last year admitted to intentially short stopping because they knew they were not being timed in their pitbox. We found out too late to protest...and it was not possible to tell clearly from the timing sheet...that is not the case now.

The current solution is not ideal, but with pit to car radios, it shouldn't be too difficult to time from pit entry to exit. However, something my team thought of - what if you get to the exit too early and have to stop at the line and you've a fellow competitor behind you, potential pile up!!!

You end up with people queuing at the end of the pits. someone will have their licence endorsed soon for doing it. Static timing is easy, last season someone stood next to you, why not have people on the pit wall looking back towards the garages who can time from a distance. You never know if you are being timed and so whilst you could cheat the penalty (60 seconds) far outweighs the benefit of a couple of seconds. A lot of people seem to have been caught out by a second or two, people who genuinely tried to play by the rules but who simply couldn`t judge properly.

Testing time is precious enough without doing a series of runs through the pit lane. Do teams know in advance (Friday) where they will be along the pit wall on race days when garages are not allocated ? I suspect not.

As with power testing, weighing & the like why complicate a potentially very simple thing.

Henry

[KEET]

We do have pit to car radio and not one but two watches were activated, we thought this would be the best option. Still got a penalty even with both watches showing 59 seconds elapsed before moving off down the pit lane to cross the exit line which was 30 yards away, we had done the timing down the pitlane thing each time the car came in and agreed that it took 20 seconds, therefore 40 seconds at rest should suffice, we obviously need more practice!

[2priestsferrari]

Henry is bang on with his comments - problem with pitlane timing is what is the pitlane? Is it anything other than the circuit is it at the 60km/h boards and who is doing the timing - and how do they see such distances with any accuracy?

Re: 60 secs I defy anyone to drive the pitlane and change driver in less than 60secs!!

[Simon Leith]

We pitted in 60.5 seconds on Saturday and 62.1 seconds on Sunday ! Geoff Steel and the team were bang on and I think that if you HAVE to get it right...you will. I am glad the rules have been enforced this weekend. I guarantee that everyone will be 60 secs+ in future becaue they know the penalty if not. I am not saying it's perfect but at least it is measureable and it applies to every car/team....which has to be a good thing!

[ahonen]

It follows the FIA GT3 system, unfortunately. The FIA give the teams a target time, but also tell them how long it takes to travel down the pit lane at 60km/h - so the teams don't have to mess around timing themselves in testing.

It is open to abuse though. If cars pit under the SC (or simply nose to tail under green) then you'll send your guy early to gain position - while he simply travels at 30km/h all the way to the line. Teams did it in the FIA series last year, despite the ruling about 'maintaining a good speed in pit lane'.

The best way is no pathetic bloody timing at all. Let the teams actually make a difference by being efficient.

[ahonen]

2priestsferrari said:

Re: 60 secs I defy anyone to drive the pitlane and change driver in less than 60secs!!

We used to do it in well under that in BGT (when we were allowed to) - our calculated time at Silverstone was about 50 seconds, if I remember, which used to be critical because of traffic. On shorter pit lanes we were way under that. Average driver change time was 12 seconds from door open to door closed.

[935]

Nothings perfect in this world and especially not in Britcar. However, the 60 second rule is not so bad. It is timed automatically by the timing loops at the entry and exit of the pit lane so there are no officals with stop watches around. I agree its a pain to have to time the pit lane runs in practice but we are in and out of the pits so often it can be done without any extra overhead. We obviously need to practice because we cannot do a driver change in 60 seconds so there is room for improvement! Add a little fuel and we are much closer to 100 seconds!
I dont like the limit on refuelling quantity. If we could add 75 litres instead of 50 we would be much happier. Our car, being air cooled, suffers from heat and we have to pump fuel through the engine on the over run to keep it cool. Hence all the black smoke and the poor fuel consumption!! Oh well, nothings perfect!
Cheers,
Richard.

[kenthardy]

The problem is that (and it's been in all the motoring mags) that there is a shortage of marshals generally and it may be that it's thought impossible to be able to rely on having enough marshals to cover 40 cars adequately. Also there's the problem (and associated danger) of having too many people in an overcrowded pitlane. Using the timing loops gives the officials no doubts and overcomes all these points. Whether the penalty fits the crime is a different question..............

[Henry-F]

So am I to assume all cars need to add a pit lane limiter to their costs for racing in Britcar. I have a digital readout that tells me how fast I`m going, even with this I defy anyone to maintain an exact speed, certainly without staring at the speedo the whole time, when in actual fact you could really do with keeping a close eye out for mechanics, marshals and other cars in a busy pit lane.

Certainly a free pitstop time would allow teams to gain advantage by being efficient and through practice, it would also involve the teams even more (something I loved about endurance racing). Fuel limits could still be in place if the aim was to have all the cars finishing together although it would need enforcing. Last year I witnessed fuel going into a car via the churn being used to vent the fuel tank as well as a team who used very large dump bottles half filled then took them round the back of the garage and filled them brim full just before the car came into the pits.

I think fundamental ideals need to be set to determine exactly what the rules are aiming to do. Are they in place so as to reduce costs, level performance advantage, or allow free competition but promote safey.

I think any rule introduced should be easy to adhere to and not disadvantage teams who genuinely want to run within the rules. I still maintain the timing is extremely hard to guage (as a team / driver) and is potentially dangerous if people are looking at their dashboards in the pit lane rather than out of the window.

Henry

[4wheel drifter]

If powerloggers are so clever(???), can they not divulge how long the car has been stationary in the pit lane?. I presume it is easy enough to overlay the powerlogger graph with a map of the relevant circuit?

Whilst on the subject of powerloggers could the data for each competitor not be published or on the web?. This would help show they worked and dispel the idea that the rules are "made up as we go along".

[GuyS.]

Henry, you make some very valid points. As a newbie to Britcar the rules surrounding pitstops seem the most puzzling. The aim for any pitstop is to add fuel, change driver, change tyres etc. It seems a very blunt instrument to use them as a method of class equalisation.

Safety has to be the paramount concern certainly as far as fuel and pit lane speeding are concerned so I feel speed limiters should be mandatory but after that skillful stops by the pitcrew should be rewarded. Isn't that what endurance racing is all about ?

The other thing that gets my goat is mandatory stops for sprint races that last less than an hour, what's that all about ?

Obviously Mr Chamberlain's wonderful car should have its own refuelling rules as it uses so much of the stuff. Possibly a larger filler cap Richard to allow for it in flight ?

Edited by GuyS. on Thursday 3rd May 19:38

[935]

There's an idea. I could follow a Victor tanker and top up at will. I wonder what Mr. Tucker would say?????? Could have a problem with the noise police though!!!

I agree minimum pit stop times area pain and a blunt instrument but I guess they are there to allow safe refuelling as there is no point in rushing. However, I can't understand why the driver has to get out of the car and I can't understand why there are different times for different classes.

Cheers,

Richard.

[thunderbelmont]

935 said:

There's an idea. I could follow a Victor tanker and top up at will. I wonder what Mr. Tucker would say?????? Could have a problem with the noise police though!!!

I'll fit a towbar to the Belmont, Richard, and drag a bowser round. Just got to get Leo & Tony fitted with some 180mph rollerskates to go with the dry break kit.

I reckon that with the weight I'm going to have to bolt into that car, a 1000L bowser won't make that much difference if I had that instead!.

If you ran Bio-Ethanol (E85) you could (a) produce more power, and (b) run a hell of a lot cooler. However, you'd need to pit every five laps with a 50L refuelling limit.

Rob.

[archibold]

[quote=935]
I agree minimum pit stop times area pain and a blunt instrument but I guess they are there to allow safe refuelling as there is no point in rushing. However, I can't understand why the driver has to get out of the car...
quote]

Hi Richard

Based on the (in)experience of a lot of teams in the series a time limit is sensible. The driver has to be out of the car (if I recall correctly) as it is in the rules for refueling (bluebook I think but maybe FIA)...very few series are allowed to fuel with drivers in situ. Usually needs fuel rigs etc. Having seen the kit (lack of) that some people use to fuel, best they take their time.

The simple solution should be to put a stopwatch on the dash and know your time to the exit. We will try that next time as at Brands our timing was out and it cost us a very good class result ;(

Archibold