Idle Musings on Ferrari

[CommanderJameson]

What must be going on in the meeting rooms at Maranello? They've spent their customary vast wedge on the car, and it's not that quick; they spent a big wedge on Massa, and he got himself disqualified for "not looking at the light"; they've spent a huge wedge on Raikkonen, who just hasn't delivered...

Where do they go from here? I don't think they've got a hope of a driver's championship, but never say never in the constructor's; but how would they do it?

I suppose in large part it depends on whether the car is fundamentally flawed or whether there's some component or subsystem that's not performing (and can therefore be developed and installed this season).

Of course, no amount of technical tomfoolery will help if Kimi keeps chucking it at the grass.

[Jungles]

Ferrari has a fast car, and one that is reasonably reliable. Kimi is the only driver who has been suffering from problems with the car, while Massa has had his niggles but have managed to overcome them and deliver consistent points.

Their problem is a human one: Kimi. I reckon even Nick Heidfeld would do better than Kimi in the Ferrari #1 seat... heck he's doing almost as good in a BMW!

Best to let Kimi go next season, unless he manages to pull himself together and not drop any lower than #4 in the WDC standings. If he is made to leave, then make Massa #1 and give the #2 seat to a younger driver with more potential. There are plenty of them out there... it's just a matter of money and career options: Kova, Rosberg, Sato, and Kubica can all be potentially molded by Ferrari into championship contenders.

[Muzzer]

Jungles said:

Best to let Kimi go next season, unless he manages to pull himself together and not drop any lower than #4 in the WDC standings.

I can just see that conversation

Montezemelo "This Kimi fella, we pay him $15m a season on a multi year contract. Let's just get shot of him after one season so we can put someone else in the car. He's clearly not that good, look at the first few races. I could do better myself"

Not gonna happen....

Jungles said:

If he is made to leave, then make Massa #1 and give the #2 seat to a younger driver with more potential.

Sato can be potentially molded by Ferrari into a championship contender.

Stop it, it hurts....

[The Hypno-Toad]

Schumi to test the car between Indy and Silverstone...... remember who told you first...

[woof]

The Hypno-Toad said:

Schumi to test the car between Indy and Silverstone...... remember who told you first...

100% agreed - secret test though. Sure they don't want the world to know that between the 3 actual drivers, they need old man schuey to tell them what's wrong with the car

[Jungles]

Muzzer said:

Jungles said:

Best to let Kimi go next season, unless he manages to pull himself together and not drop any lower than #4 in the WDC standings.

I can just see that conversation

Montezemelo "This Kimi fella, we pay him $15m a season on a multi year contract. Let's just get shot of him after one season so we can put someone else in the car. He's clearly not that good, look at the first few races. I could do better myself"

Not gonna happen....

I'll take your word that the contract is a multi-year one, in which case it most likely won't happen.

But you should consider:

How can Ferrari F1 justify their investment in Kimi when he:
1. Fails to deliver strong and consistent points for the Manufacturer's Championship.
2. Delivers less performance than the cheaper #2 driver for the team, Massa.
3. Has shown little sign of improving his performance as the season progresses, to the extent that he is almost losing his WDC standing to another driver in a slower car.

Muzzer said:

Jungles said:

If he is made to leave, then make Massa #1 and give the #2 seat to a younger driver with more potential.

Sato can be potentially molded by Ferrari into a championship contender.

Stop it, it hurts....

For a team to have a chance at being on top of the Manufacturer's Championship, they need drivers who can consistently deliver good points. The drivers don't need to be champions, but obviously for those points to be earned, they need to be WDC contenders, ie. be able to score regular podium finishes, and occasionally win.

I cannot see why the four green-horn drivers I listed could not be molded into potential championship contenders. The key words being: molded, potential, and contenders.

You chose Sato to laugh at. He has performed strongly so far this season in a crap car in a crap team. They are improving, but are hardly better than STR or RBR, and worse than Honda and Toyota. But despite Honda and Toyota having very experienced drivers in the cockpit, Sato is outperforming them all.

Edited by Jungles on Monday 11th June 13:39

[johnph]

I think the problem with ferrari is that they are lapsing back into the pre Todt/Brawn/Schumacher situation. It was those three that turned them around from being a midfield team to the chmapionship winners that they are. Future sucess depends upon whether Brawn comes back.

Schumacher acting as an advisor is a great help to Massa. Kimis seeming refusal to listen to Michael borders on extreme arrogance looking at the score between the two on championships (Schumi 7 - Kimi 0). If i had not won the championship and had the advice of someone who had won it 7 times i'd take it.

If anyone is to get a ferrari seat in the near future then i'd say Kubica. When Hamilton was asked who he considered to be the biggest threat to him in the near future he said Kubica.

[runnersp]

Ferrari isn't doing well? Of course it isn't, Ross Brawn's gone...

[FourWheelDrift]

Jungles said:

But despite Honda and Toyota having very experienced drivers in the cockpit, Sato is outperforming them all.

You've taken that from one race only, Canada. I have already posted on the Canadian GP thread why Sato was so fast and able to pick off supposedly better cars, so in case you missed it here it is again.

In F1 these days the teams have to run both option tyres, the softer (white banded) tyres were dismal in Canada so when the saftey car came out for the last time they brought Taku in to put him onto the softer tyres, he did a couple of laps, then came in and they put him back on the better harder tyre. all those ahead of Taku were on the softer tyres and all having grip issues. This is what enabled him to go so well at the end. Very clever work by Super Aguri.

[sleep envy]

woof said:

The Hypno-Toad said:

Schumi to test the car between Indy and Silverstone...... remember who told you first...

100% agreed - secret test though. Sure they don't want the world to know that between the 3 actual drivers, they need old man schuey to tell them what's wrong with the car

Kimi 'no, I was taking a shit' Raikkonen will love having his car developed by MSchu

[humph]

I think you'll find Sato was featuring strongly BEFORE they did the quick stint on the option tyre.
Something like 4th or 5th challenging Webber not to mention the great move on Kimi.
Try watching it again and I think you'll have to concede that so far this season Sato has earned his place in F1.

[Muzzer]

Jungles said:

I'll take your word that the contract is a multi-year one, in which case it most likely won't happen.

It's definitely a multi year contract. You don't sign a driver of Kimi's calibre on a one year deal. Especially if you're replacing a 7 time champion.

Jungles said:

But you should consider:

How can Ferrari F1 justify their investment in Kimi when he:
1. Fails to deliver strong and consistent points for the Manufacturer's Championship.
2. Delivers less performance than the cheaper #2 driver for the team, Massa.
3. Has shown little sign of improving his performance as the season progresses, to the extent that he is almost losing his WDC standing to another driver in a slower car.

I agree that he hasn't set the world on fire. However, it's the same situation as Alonso at McLaren. You come from a different team, on different tyres and you have to acclimatise. To say he should be dropped six races in (one of which he dominated and won) is hasty to say the least.
Alonso, while having won two races, is only on a par with Lewis at the moment and Lewis has only driven 6 GPs. Do you think Alonso should be dropped?

Jungles said:

For a team to have a chance at being on top of the Manufacturer's Championship, they need drivers who can consistently deliver good points. The drivers don't need to be champions, but obviously for those points to be earned, they need to be WDC contenders, ie. be able to score regular podium finishes, and occasionally win.

I cannot see why the four green-horn drivers I listed could not be molded into potential championship contenders. The key words being: molded, potential, and contenders.

You chose Sato to laugh at. He has performed strongly so far this season in a crap car in a crap team. They are improving, but are hardly better than STR or RBR, and worse than Honda and Toyota. But despite Honda and Toyota having very experienced drivers in the cockpit, Sato is outperforming them all.

I'll accept that Kubica has potential. Rosberg has improved, the jury's out on Heikki. But Sato? Please. You're basing a judgement of his ability on one race when he was on a superior strategy and subsequently had the best tyres at the end of the race. I think Takuma showed his abilities in a decent car quite adeptly in 2004 when Jenson wiped the floor with him throughout the entire year. That car was the second best car that year and Jenson scored 11 podiums on the way to 3rd in the championship. Taku's podium count? 1. At Indy.

I like Taku. He's a fun driver who has a go and has found his place in a low to mid-field car. But as for driving for arguably the greatest F1 team there's ever been, with the hopes of Italy on his shoulders, replacing a man who's won 11 GPs and following on from a 7 time world champion? You can't possibly think this would be a good idea

[FourWheelDrift]

humph said:

I think you'll find Sato was featuring strongly BEFORE they did the quick stint on the option tyre.

Yes because he had only made one pitstop at that point when all around him had already done two pitstops. Under race conditions he would have been 30s+ behind those around him. He just took advantage of the safety cars and the team did a great job by bringing him in twice under the final safety car.

Not doubting he had a great race and you can't take his move on Alonso away from him but he just got lucky with the safety cars.

[rubystone]

Kimi's on US25m a year and escalating. I'm sure they both have break clauses, but not in year 1. One swallow does not a summer make. Dismiss him at your peril. I am sure that Schumacher is enjoying what he's seeing. He has aligned himself closely with Massa, but will he get his old seat back?...No way Montezemolo will allow it...and what's with all this Yeoh at each and every race FFS - I notice RD's dragging Lisa along too.

[AlexS]

Jungles said:

Muzzer said:

Jungles said:

If he is made to leave, then make Massa #1 and give the #2 seat to a younger driver with more potential.

Sato can be potentially molded by Ferrari into a championship contender.

Stop it, it hurts....

For a team to have a chance at being on top of the Manufacturer's Championship, they need drivers who can consistently deliver good points. The drivers don't need to be champions, but obviously for those points to be earned, they need to be WDC contenders, ie. be able to score regular podium finishes, and occasionally win.

I cannot see why the four green-horn drivers I listed could not be molded into potential championship contenders. The key words being: molded, potential, and contenders.

You chose Sato to laugh at. He has performed strongly so far this season in a crap car in a crap team. They are improving, but are hardly better than STR or RBR, and worse than Honda and Toyota. But despite Honda and Toyota having very experienced drivers in the cockpit, Sato is outperforming them all.

Edited by Jungles on Monday 11th June 13:39

Sato isn't exactly a greenhorn though, and has rather a record of crashing into other drivers when he was driving a competitive car.

[rubystone]

The Aguri is last year's Honda with a curent aero package. That car was good enough to win the Hungary GP and to finish strongly in the remaining races. It didn't break down much either. That gives Sato a big advantage.

[stuttgartmetal]

rubystone said:

Yeoh at each and every race FFS......

Jean Todt, what a catch. A face, [and body].......for Radio.
Those cardigans, he's a trendsetter, Ive not seen zip ups like that since the 70's.
He's as miserable as sin as well, when did you last see him smile?

[80Bob]

It's what happens when you employ the most over rated driver in the paddock.

[tomtvr]

If Massa hadnt been disqualified the he would only be 9 points off Hamilton which is hardly a disaster. Besides the 'no.2' drivers from each team are doing better so far.

At a couple of the earlier races in the sesaon Ferrari were wiping the floor with Mclaren with time to spare to turn the revs down - dont see why they cant return to that form. Indianapolis is a good track for Ferrari so i would write them off just yet.

Whats all this talk about Ferrari having a longer wheelbase or something? Could give an advanate at different tracks?

[loneranger]

Blimey, people have short memories.

Ferrari have had dips in form worse than this in previous seasons, then gone on to win both championships. It is almost as if they need a quick slap to get them out of their complacancy.

I am sure that the good people in Maranello have put the lambrusco down, rolled up their sleeves and got down to some serious graft. They will be flying new aero parts over to the states this week and will have a lot more goodies to add when they get back to Europe. We have an interesting fight on our hands this season, don't write Kimi off yet.