Is Kimi right to ignore MS?
Discussion
The reports so far in the motor sport media have clearly shown that Kimi has not been interested in listening to what MS has to say as an employee of the Ferrari team now as a sporting advisor.
It would appear that Massa has listened and you could say has benefited from the wisdom of a 7 times world champ.
So is Kimi right to ignore him?
Is the very presence of MS effecting Kimi's driving?
Or is Kimi simply not as good as we all thought he was?
It would appear that Massa has listened and you could say has benefited from the wisdom of a 7 times world champ.
So is Kimi right to ignore him?
Is the very presence of MS effecting Kimi's driving?
Or is Kimi simply not as good as we all thought he was?
Kimi's in a difficult position isn't he?
Massa can claim the "rookie" status and no-one thinks it odd that he's looking to an old hand for help.
Kimi has spent years fighing Schumi for the title, and is taking USD20m to replace him. If he accepts help then that's him admitting that it was more than just duff reliability that cost him 3 or 4 titles and he's not worth the money.
The right answer is that he probably needs the help, but he'll never live it down if he asks for it.
Massa can claim the "rookie" status and no-one thinks it odd that he's looking to an old hand for help.
Kimi has spent years fighing Schumi for the title, and is taking USD20m to replace him. If he accepts help then that's him admitting that it was more than just duff reliability that cost him 3 or 4 titles and he's not worth the money.
The right answer is that he probably needs the help, but he'll never live it down if he asks for it.
i have heard that massa really tried last year and integrated himself into the team well which has found him in good stead with the team this year. kimi has suffered because of this but also because he played the arrogant and aloof driver card first with his comments in brazil on the grid, then not following it up with some stunning performances.
you reap what you sow....
you reap what you sow....
Don't think Kimi's interested in any kind of coaching to be honest, least of all from Schuey. Some good insights from F1 Racing magazine a month or so ago including one from his F3 (iirc) race engineer who said that Kimi would sleep under the table whilst they would pore over the data. Then they'd wake him up and he'd jump in and drive the wheels off the car.
All very well but that approach will only get you so far, Ferrari's challenge will be to make him realise that. That said, you could argue they achieved that with Massa who was quick but not polished when they got their hands on him.
Will be fascinating to see how it pans out though...
All very well but that approach will only get you so far, Ferrari's challenge will be to make him realise that. That said, you could argue they achieved that with Massa who was quick but not polished when they got their hands on him.
Will be fascinating to see how it pans out though...
chris_w said:
Then they'd wake him up and he'd jump in and drive the wheels off the car.
All very well but that approach will only get you so far, Ferrari's challenge will be to make him realise that.
I can't help comparing Kimi with Gilles Villeneuve - fantastically fast but neither seems to contribute much to the development of the car...but I haven't heard anyone complain about Villeneuve's lack of application... All very well but that approach will only get you so far, Ferrari's challenge will be to make him realise that.
He doesn't like golf lessons either: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6ihHFqNvKA
tI have just finished MS's book, and it's a huge insight into his success. It was quite clear from the outset while karting that he was quick but by no means the finished article. It looks like he worked really hard once he made it to single seaters to learn as much as possible and certainly his time in the Mercedes junior team was a hugely beneficial move. Given the knowledge and experience the guy has, anyone who can't see that gleaning that info from him isn't going to benefit them must be an idiot. I don't think it would reflect badly on Raikonen if he worked with MS, I think it would gain him more respect than he has now.
RobbieMeister said:
Yes!
This MS mentoring of Massa thing is a Toad wind up for Montezuma.
He's best to keep out of it.
MS must be the most disliked World Champion ever, who would want to emulate that.
Quite! This MS mentoring of Massa thing is a Toad wind up for Montezuma.
He's best to keep out of it.
MS must be the most disliked World Champion ever, who would want to emulate that.
Plus you guys really don't get the Finnish psyche. Kimi has Sisu (untranslatable Finnish quality of strength and individuality) he will overcome when Ferrari get their act together.
NB Does Schumacher have another reason to help Massa - yes - Felipe was defo his number 2 & if he makes Massa look competitive to Kimi it boosts Scumsucker's view of his own place in history!
rubystone said:
chris_w said:
Then they'd wake him up and he'd jump in and drive the wheels off the car.
All very well but that approach will only get you so far, Ferrari's challenge will be to make him realise that.
I can't help comparing Kimi with Gilles Villeneuve - fantastically fast but neither seems to contribute much to the development of the car...but I haven't heard anyone complain about Villeneuve's lack of application... All very well but that approach will only get you so far, Ferrari's challenge will be to make him realise that.
hasnt the same thing been said of Jim Clark - fantastic driver, but couldnt give the feedback to the engineers, he'd just drive.
CiderwithCerbie said:
RobbieMeister said:
Yes!
This MS mentoring of Massa thing is a Toad wind up for Montezuma.
He's best to keep out of it.
MS must be the most disliked World Champion ever, who would want to emulate that.
Quite! This MS mentoring of Massa thing is a Toad wind up for Montezuma.
He's best to keep out of it.
MS must be the most disliked World Champion ever, who would want to emulate that.
Plus you guys really don't get the Finnish psyche. Kimi has Sisu (untranslatable Finnish quality of strength and individuality) he will overcome when Ferrari get their act together.
!
loneranger said:
He doesn't like golf lessons either: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6ihHFqNvKA
F*ck me, it laughs!SuperKartRacer said:
chris_w said:
All very well but that approach will only get you so far,
HAHA, wtf? he's one of the fastest in the world! and he's in F1..... maybe you should ring him up with some advise :-)
However, MS was hugely fast and I *think* a good team member - if he refuses advise on the bases that he just doesn't need advise, he has problem as he's in no position to refuse it. Even at the end of his career, MS could have done with a bit of advise here and there.
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