Notes on Silverstone testing.
Discussion
I was told that the teams pay £500,000 a day each to be there.
The commentary over the PA was far better than we get on the TV. ITV should do some recruiting here.
The RBR is very fast in a straight line. Pity about the threepenny bit cornering. Adrian Newey has some sorting to do.
The thing that most impresses about a modern F1 is the braking. They can scrub off 100 mph in just a few yards. This must stop overtaking just as much as the aerodynamic issues. Steel brakes would make F1 a lot more fun.
The engines now all sound pretty much the same under power. Under T/C they still sound different. Presumably this is because they have different software.
Every driver was leaning on the T/C on every corner. They are going to get a shock next year. Some cars start to T/C immediately on turn in, others a little later. The very best/fastest cars are the ones that T/C latest in the corners.
Alonso was trying hard and experimenting on how he took different corners. He obviously wants to get more out of the McLaren.
Massa was very, very fast. And not at all ragged. The car was composed and under control at all times. As I said elsewhere if you changed the helmet it could have been MS in the car. (Maybe it was!!!)
I was told that the problems with both Toyota and Honda are 100% the Japanese management. Every small decision has to go to endless management meetings in Japan. Parts that should take less than a week end up taking months, this just won't work in F1. The guys at the sharp end in the teams are getting pretty fed up.
The consensus is that Hamilton is better than Alonso and will consistently finish ahead of his team mate and score more points. Personally I think it is partly down to the car suiting one driver over the other.
I think that at 20 to 1 Massa is a very good bet for the championship. He was by far the fastest over the week and is 7 points ahead of Kimi, who doesn't seem to be getting to grips with his donkey. Ferrari seem to have overtaken McLaren on car speed again. There are rumours that Michael has been testing in Italy. Wouldn't suprise me.
The commentary over the PA was far better than we get on the TV. ITV should do some recruiting here.
The RBR is very fast in a straight line. Pity about the threepenny bit cornering. Adrian Newey has some sorting to do.
The thing that most impresses about a modern F1 is the braking. They can scrub off 100 mph in just a few yards. This must stop overtaking just as much as the aerodynamic issues. Steel brakes would make F1 a lot more fun.
The engines now all sound pretty much the same under power. Under T/C they still sound different. Presumably this is because they have different software.
Every driver was leaning on the T/C on every corner. They are going to get a shock next year. Some cars start to T/C immediately on turn in, others a little later. The very best/fastest cars are the ones that T/C latest in the corners.
Alonso was trying hard and experimenting on how he took different corners. He obviously wants to get more out of the McLaren.
Massa was very, very fast. And not at all ragged. The car was composed and under control at all times. As I said elsewhere if you changed the helmet it could have been MS in the car. (Maybe it was!!!)
I was told that the problems with both Toyota and Honda are 100% the Japanese management. Every small decision has to go to endless management meetings in Japan. Parts that should take less than a week end up taking months, this just won't work in F1. The guys at the sharp end in the teams are getting pretty fed up.
The consensus is that Hamilton is better than Alonso and will consistently finish ahead of his team mate and score more points. Personally I think it is partly down to the car suiting one driver over the other.
I think that at 20 to 1 Massa is a very good bet for the championship. He was by far the fastest over the week and is 7 points ahead of Kimi, who doesn't seem to be getting to grips with his donkey. Ferrari seem to have overtaken McLaren on car speed again. There are rumours that Michael has been testing in Italy. Wouldn't suprise me.
Very amusing.The Toyotas were fastest on the first two days of the test, which further emphasises that test times are invariably meaningless because you don't know what programmes the teams are running.
Regarding the consensus in the paddock about Alonso and Hamilton's relative pace - did this come from the driver's test engineers?
loneranger said:
Every driver was leaning on the T/C on every corner. They are going to get a shock next year. Some cars start to T/C immediately on turn in, others a little later. The very best/fastest cars are the ones that T/C latest in the corners.
When the ban on traction control was announced a number of the drivers said it wouldn't affect them as they turn it off on their out laps. From what you saw at Silverstone is there any truth in that?johnph said:
loneranger said:
Every driver was leaning on the T/C on every corner. They are going to get a shock next year. Some cars start to T/C immediately on turn in, others a little later. The very best/fastest cars are the ones that T/C latest in the corners.
When the ban on traction control was announced a number of the drivers said it wouldn't affect them as they turn it off on their out laps. From what you saw at Silverstone is there any truth in that?If you watch the right hander at the end of the pit straight, they go in absolutely flat, without lifting. Part way through on every car the T/C started up. The Ferrari was best with intervention seeming to come only after the apex. Some of the lesser cars had it a lot sooner.
T/C is so fundemental to the way that the cars are driven that it must be built into the entire dynamics of the chassis. In other words the current cars would not work very well without it.
Next year will be fun with the drivers all having to learn a new way to get an F1 car round a circuit.
It will be even more fun for the designers and developers trying to create a totally new form of F1 car. As always with massive rule changes it is going to favour teams with big budgets who can throw a lot of resources at the problem.
This is the biggest and most significant change in F1 for a very long time. It is going to change the driver pecking order a lot. In fact some may never adapt. It will also lead to more overtaking as the cornering will be up to driver skill instead of software boffins back at the factory.
loneranger said:
Every driver was leaning on the T/C on every corner. They are going to get a shock next year. Some cars start to T/C immediately on turn in, others a little later. The very best/fastest cars are the ones that T/C latest in the corners.
You mean the very best/fastest drivers are the ones that T/C latest in the corners?It's the drivers, not the car, that ultimately decide when T/C comes on. Some drivers are obviously aggressive and just keep their foot planted on the throttle while others are more measured. Drivers also set their T/C threshold differently, depending on conditions and personal preference.
loneranger said:
The engines now all sound pretty much the same under power. Under T/C they still sound different. Presumably this is because they have different software.
I went in 2005, when they still had V10s. Not having seen F1 cars run live properly before I was suprised how obvious it was when the traction control was operating. You get almost no sense of it from the TV. They do sound very different - the Jordan cars had some very obvious steps in their traction control, so it sounded very artificial going through a corner as it jumped from one pitch to another. Others had a more continuous sound.McLaren had a V8 development car running alongside the V10s, and it was interesting to here the difference. The V8s aren't quieter, but they do have a thinner sound.
Edited to please the pedants.
Edited by tank slapper on Friday 22 June 23:41
Jungles said:
loneranger said:
Every driver was leaning on the T/C on every corner. They are going to get a shock next year. Some cars start to T/C immediately on turn in, others a little later. The very best/fastest cars are the ones that T/C latest in the corners.
You mean the very best/fastest drivers are the ones that T/C latest in the corners?It's the drivers, not the car, that ultimately decide when T/C comes on. Some drivers are obviously aggressive and just keep their foot planted on the throttle while others are more measured. Drivers also set their T/C threshold differently, depending on conditions and personal preference.
It will be very, very easy for a driver to destroy a pair of rear tyres without T/C there to protect them.
So next year the tyres will have to be a lot more robust than now, therefore less grippy, therefore favouring the better drivers, therfore leading to yet more overtaking.
chim666 said:
loneranger said:
The commentary over the PA was far better than we get on the TV.
They have commentary at F1 testing now?I meant that the commentary over the PA was far better than the drivel we get from the chimps on TV.
It was intelligent, informative and didn't concentrate on just one driver.
loneranger said:
chim666 said:
loneranger said:
The commentary over the PA was far better than we get on the TV.
They have commentary at F1 testing now?I meant that the commentary over the PA was far better than the drivel we get from the chimps on TV.
It was intelligent, informative and didn't concentrate on just one driver.
I'm not sure which Massa you were watching. He was the most accident-prone of all of the drivers during the last day of the test. He caused three red flags (one mechanical and two spins I think), went wide at Brooklands/Priory at least once and went four wheels on the grass out of Luffield at least once. Once he'd got those cock-ups out of the way, at the end of the day, I'll admit he was the best and most consistant driver between Bridge and the start finish straight.
With the traction control, I feel sorry for the Spyker drivers. You could see their car bouncing around Luffield as soon as they tried to put any power down. I'm not sure if banning it next year will make the races more exciting. If nothing else, the amount of spins into gravel/walls it cause will mean that much more of the season will be spent behind the safety car. I could be wrong, but was the only reason that TC was bought in was because teams were starting to (illegally) use their own?
With the traction control, I feel sorry for the Spyker drivers. You could see their car bouncing around Luffield as soon as they tried to put any power down. I'm not sure if banning it next year will make the races more exciting. If nothing else, the amount of spins into gravel/walls it cause will mean that much more of the season will be spent behind the safety car. I could be wrong, but was the only reason that TC was bought in was because teams were starting to (illegally) use their own?
) so they can ensure no-one sneaks it in.
i don't think the engines do sound that similar - i'm used to hearing them now and can identify the BMWs, bit similar to the ferrari, macca's and renault sound the same but different to everyone else, toyota sounds different again.
as for tc, not sure if i'm meant to say this but glock was spending a lot of the thursday afternoon with traction control completely disabled - he really loved it, said it was loads of fun, but the throttle mapping was not sensitive enough to really play on the exits.
as for tc, not sure if i'm meant to say this but glock was spending a lot of the thursday afternoon with traction control completely disabled - he really loved it, said it was loads of fun, but the throttle mapping was not sensitive enough to really play on the exits.
tank slapper said:
the Jordan cars had some very obvious steps in their traction control, so it sounded very artificial going through a corner as it jumped from one pitch to another. Others had a more continuous sound.
IIRC the Jordan TC had a distinctive "moaning" note - identical to the Toyota, no surprise there of course. The McLaren used far less TC and certainly then, it was easy to tell who had their TC wound up to 11 and whose car was better balanced. Interesting to hear that Massa may well have a good car for Silverstone
rubystone said:
IIRC the Jordan TC had a distinctive "moaning" note - identical to the Toyota, no surprise there of course. The McLaren used far less TC and certainly then, it was easy to tell who had their TC wound up to 11 and whose car was better balanced.
I don't know if I would describe it as moaning, but most of the others seemed to have either a continuously variable setting that sounded like low pitched pink noise, but the Jordan's very obviously had different discrete levels of traction control that changed as required, giving a very odd sound.Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff