More reason F1 is Crap - Cars Performance so Crucial

[jellison]

http://www.crash.net/news_view~cid~1~id~150994~pid...

Hence why F1 is so painful to what. Seeing great drivers being forced to monkey about way down the field - when if they were in a front 2 team car they would be at the front just like the lead 4 cars.

Real racing has 22 - 30 car very similar and able to do very close lap times (when you have the top 20+ driver in them - not non professional which will alway have a very spread out field).

I can see where Button is coming from TOTALLY.

[loneranger]

jellison said:

http://www.crash.net/news_view~cid~1~id~150994~pid...

Hence why F1 is so painful to what. Seeing great drivers being forced to monkey about way down the field - when if they were in a front 2 team car they would be at the front just like the lead 4 cars.

Real racing has 22 - 30 car very similar and able to do very close lap times (when you have the top 20+ driver in them - not non professional which will alway have a very spread out field).

I can see where Button is coming from TOTALLY.

Yep, there is no doubt that if he was in the McLaren he would be getting podiums. He is just as good as their current drivers.

It would be brilliant if Honda made him a car that works for next year. They seem to be putting a lot of effort into putting together a team that can do it. Button has a driving style that will really suit next year's cars (no T/C) so all he needs is equivalent machinery in order to shine.

[Marki]

For the amount of money they are paying him Button needs to shut the up and support his team instead of whining to the press

[kevin ritson]

Marki said:

For the amount of money they are paying him Button needs to shut the up and support his team instead of whining to the press

He has been, the team has been full of praise for him this year - this is a classic out of context story.

And the technological battle is part of what makes F1 great, one make formulas can be dull - I've rarely looked forward to a FRenault or FBMW race.

[Fidgits]

jenson the whinging button said:

Jenson Button has sensationally announced he will leave Formula 1 should the performance of his Honda car not significantly improve within the next two years.

We can only hope he's true to his word.


Yes, its unfortunate there is such a performance gap - but thats F1 - the only other option is a one make series (or such tight regulation it may as well be) - F1 has always had front runners, and back markers - and they tend to move around a lot (look at Williams, or even Ferrari in the past).


The interesting thing is, the driver must have a significant input to the development of the car - so I cant help but think, while the Honda isnt competitive, Button should take some of the blame, after all, he is part of the team!

[jellison]

kevin ritson said:

Marki said:

For the amount of money they are paying him Button needs to shut the up and support his team instead of whining to the press

He has been, the team has been full of praise for him this year - this is a classic out of context story.

And the technological battle is part of what makes F1 great, one make formulas can be dull - I've rarely looked forward to a FRenault or FBMW race.

You would if those formula races had 800bhp engined equal cars with th 24 best driver in the world in them!

[kevin ritson]

Not sure I would - sometimes it's because the cars are so equally matched that they just follow each other round - the temptation would be for grip to outweigh power to keep them safe

[Marki]

kevin ritson said:

Not sure I would - sometimes it's because the cars are so equally matched that they just follow each other round - the temptation would be for grip to outweigh power to keep them safe

A1 was a good idea , but in practice not so entertaining to watch ,, well at least the races i have seen were very dull

[jellison]

Marki said:

kevin ritson said:

Not sure I would - sometimes it's because the cars are so equally matched that they just follow each other round - the temptation would be for grip to outweigh power to keep them safe

A1 was a good idea , but in practice not so entertaining to watch ,, well at least the races i have seen were very dull

Ya but the quality of the driver in this is all over the place.

[kevin ritson]

A1 does need a bit of work, I'd really like to see it succeed. The IRL has never done it for me, either (and it is pretty much a one-make formula these days), although it's good to see Dario doing well.

[anonymous-user]

Fidgits said:

The interesting thing is, the driver must have a significant input to the development of the car - so I cant help but think, while the Honda isnt competitive, Button should take some of the blame, after all, he is part of the team!

From what I've heard, the problems with the car are much more fundamental than something that the driver can help develop. The reason that they have made some improvement in the last race or two is because the management team have let the engineers make the changes they've been wanting to since the beginning of the season.

[jellison]

kevin ritson said:

A1 does need a bit of work, I'd really like to see it succeed. The IRL has never done it for me, either (and it is pretty much a one-make formula these days), although it's good to see Dario doing well.

If F1 with its top drivers used IRL or similar spec Champ cars (much better and look like real racing cars - wide - slick - PHAT power) then all would be fine.

Champ cars before it all went pair shaped (that interfioring tt Tony George) was like this mega racing in fantastic but in some way basic similar powerfull full on Big Boy single seaters.

They should all have the GP masters cars [b]Real race cars for DRIVERS - no aids, big power / torque, slicks, and all the same bar set up[/].

[jellison]

LexSport said:

Fidgits said:

The interesting thing is, the driver must have a significant input to the development of the car - so I cant help but think, while the Honda isnt competitive, Button should take some of the blame, after all, he is part of the team!

From what I've heard, the problems with the car are much more fundamental than something that the driver can help develop. The reason that they have made some improvement in the last race or two is because the management team have let the engineers make the changes they've been wanting to since the beginning of the season.

We want to see Racers Race - if I wanted to see RACER develop cars I'd get a job on a dull test team!

Great quote on a WRC CRASH Prog the other night from Gronholms mechanic - " he was never really into tweaking or setup on the cars - if we thought it could go faster he said he would just push the throttle more and harder" That is fine if the cars are basically simialr but alot less so if every car is built from scratch by a different team. TOP MAN

Edited by jellison on Wednesday 11th July 10:28

[zac510]

jellison said:

We want to see Racers Race - if I wanted to see RACER develop cars I'd get a job on a dull test team!

Who's 'we'? Speak for yourself!
Did you only start watching F1 yesterday? It has always been about the car. Always.

[Fidgits]

jellison said:

We want to see Racers Race - if I wanted to see RACER develop cars I'd get a job on a dull test team!

Great quote on a WRC CRASH Prog the other night from Gronholms mechanic - " he was never really into tweaking or setup on the cars - if we thought it could go faster he said he would just push the throttle more and harder" That is fine if the cars are basically simialr but alot less so if every car is built from scratch by a different team. TOP MAN

You really are from another plane arent you!


Long gone are the days where the engineers put together a car, the driver turned up, hungover covered in models, and drove it as fast as he could....


F1 cars are so complicated, so precise, the drivers need to be so in tune with the cars that they need to test a lot, to find those extra tenths..

yes, its the racing that matters, but you really seem to think a driver can just jump in a F1 car and win a race, your having a laugh - even Kimi has to test, tweak and setup his car...


and as zak says, whats all this 'we', the friday test sessions have people going to watch it, so obviously some people are interested in this part of the sport - perhaps you should stop watching modern F1, and just get the old pre-1960 races on DVD and watch them every other sunday... you might stop filling the F1 threads with such nonsense then!

[rubystone]

Fidgits said:

the friday test sessions have people going to watch it, so obviously some people are interested in this part of the sport

Having watched these at Silverstone, I can assure you that they are a good indicator of what will happen in qualifying - especially the last 10 minutes of each session - I'm gonig to keep my eye on the times that come out of these

[jellison]

Must just be me - F1 is Dull procession - christ I would never pay to go watch it!

Better racing on at your average club meet and definately at BTCC or V8 Supercar meet.

I'd like to see Button in a top car - but that is the point he get in a top 4 car and he will be top 4 all the time (like what we have now) - at this level it is not the driver that make the difference.

Roll on MotoGP this weekend (weird different manufactuers in this as per GP's but alot closer racing even now with more and more electronic shit on the bikes) - i.e. here the rider DO make more of a difference than the Driver CAN in F1.

Thank god for sky+ or similar (think I have FIA World Tourers to watch tonite) - i.e. Real close racing.

[Fidgits]

Interesting - i used to watch BTCC loads in the early 90's... it was fantastic right up until the Alfa's turned up with wings... since then i watched it go downhill and replicate F1, the wheel to wheel racing went and one manufactuer tended to dominate a season (vauxhall in astras last time i saw)..

I agree F1 isnt the most exciting motorsport ever from a close racing perspective, but it is the pinnicle of motorsport - and I, among others, find it entertaining.

If you dont, switch off.

[jellison]

Fidgits said:

Interesting - i used to watch BTCC loads in the early 90's... it was fantastic right up until the Alfa's turned up with wings... since then i watched it go downhill and replicate F1, the wheel to wheel racing went and one manufactuer tended to dominate a season (vauxhall in astras last time i saw)..

I agree F1 isnt the most exciting motorsport ever from a close racing perspective, but it is the pinnicle of motorsport - and I, among others, find it entertaining.

If you dont, switch off.

I have been trying to for the last few years - Sky+ type recording helps so can skip the guff at the start and end and fwd through the processison till you might glimpse and overtake and rwd!

Hope Button get a good car soon - he is as good as the 4 at the front for definate.

[peterh2]

I think a big part of the problem is all the emphasis on slowing the cars down with the regulations, 19,000 RPM limits, non slick tyres etc. With the electric aids and the cars now running comfortably within their chassis limits the drivers are finding it quite easy to get close to maximum performance out of the car when they have no one in front of them messing with the aero features.

I think if the emphasis on slowing the cars down was dropped we would soon start to see a bigger difference between the drivers when the cars became extremely fast and had more power and grip than the chassis could really handle.

Sure this might make it a bit more dangerous but F1 has always been dangerous. This is supposed to be the pinnacle of motorsport. Boundaries are supposed to be pushed and when boundaries are pushed its always going to be dangerous. I have competed in motorsport before and I knew the risks. The cars I have raced I'm very sure would not stand up as well as a modern F1 car in a crash (although admittedly they wouldn't have been going as fast). I'm sure the drivers would accept the risks then put them to the back of their mind and get on with it. Tracks are far better designed and hence are much safer these days as well so it would still be rare that there was serious injuries / fatalities compared to the old days.