Bad crash - lucky marshall - lucky EVERYONE !
Discussion
never fails to amaze me how long, or how big and influential a crash or incident has to be before the coc or marshal for the post ( combined) decide to throw a red flag
that lot must have run in to millions not to mention 2 or 3 blokes could have been seriously injured.
anyone want to take this up on another thread feel free coz it makes me a little cross!!
that lot must have run in to millions not to mention 2 or 3 blokes could have been seriously injured.
anyone want to take this up on another thread feel free coz it makes me a little cross!!
2002 British GT round at Oulton Park. It was dry when the cars left the grid at the start of the race, it started to rain on the opening lap (possibly lap 2), hence the reason they were all on slicks.
Pretty much every one of the drivers was a passenger and frankly, you can't blame the clerk of the course, he red flagged it immediately, but the track conditions were that bad, drivers were unable to slow the cars down and stop on slicks.
Pretty much every one of the drivers was a passenger and frankly, you can't blame the clerk of the course, he red flagged it immediately, but the track conditions were that bad, drivers were unable to slow the cars down and stop on slicks.
spectatorsam said:
never fails to amaze me how long, or how big and influential a crash or incident has to be before the coc or marshal for the post ( combined) decide to throw a red flag
that lot must have run in to millions not to mention 2 or 3 blokes could have been seriously injured.
That race was red flagged as quickly as it could have been.that lot must have run in to millions not to mention 2 or 3 blokes could have been seriously injured.
how so?
cars were coming and coming and coming
we as drivers are told that missing a yellow flag or red flag is no excuse.
you notice that none of the rcovery vehicles were sliding out of control believe me you can drive on ice and not slide if you go slow enough.
dont forget that the drivers at that level are all radio linked to the pits etc, so a word to the team chiefs to tell the drivers to slow down to a crawl and stay off line would have avoided many of those smashes. however if the word from the top doesn't come then racers will race.
so, sorry I disagree. all to often people are too keen to keep to schedual and are more concerned with keeping it going at all costs as long as possible, clearly this was not appropriate, as is the case all to often imho.
cars were coming and coming and coming
we as drivers are told that missing a yellow flag or red flag is no excuse.
you notice that none of the rcovery vehicles were sliding out of control believe me you can drive on ice and not slide if you go slow enough.
dont forget that the drivers at that level are all radio linked to the pits etc, so a word to the team chiefs to tell the drivers to slow down to a crawl and stay off line would have avoided many of those smashes. however if the word from the top doesn't come then racers will race.
so, sorry I disagree. all to often people are too keen to keep to schedual and are more concerned with keeping it going at all costs as long as possible, clearly this was not appropriate, as is the case all to often imho.
.spectatorsam said:
so if you could see it as a punter, why could the coc see it and take appropriate measures??
people die!!!! in crashes, ask Jaques Villeneueeevveeu ( how ever you spell it)
People have already explained that it rained on the far side of the circuit. From a great many colleagues who were there that day I have been told that the rain happened on the far side of the track and didn't hit race control or the pitlane until after the carnage had ensued. So, the CoC wasn't aware that conditions were that bad until after all of that took place. I think you'll find that the red flag was shown pretty much immediately by the many skilled marshalls that were at that part of the track that day.people die!!!! in crashes, ask Jaques Villeneueeevveeu ( how ever you spell it)
And as for the 'recovery trucks not sliding about' Err, they're not travelling at racing speed and they're, and this is the important bit, NOT ON SLICK RACING TYRES...
Are you getting the hint yet?
Racing cars are nigh on impossible to slow up on slicks on a wet surface, especially with that amount of water. All of the guys you see in that clip who were involved in the accident were passengers in their cars, because the conditions didn't allow them to slow up and stop.
It wasn't the CoC's fault that the carnage ensued, it was a case of cars being caught out on slicks in a biblical rain shower that caught out the entire field. none of the drivers that day set off thinking that it was raining on that side of the track, as on the rollinng lap just before it was bone dry at that part of the track.
You're ramblings are ill informed, and with the Villeneuve jibe, sick and pathetic. I'd suggest you gather more information, before spouting ill-informed drivel.
(And breathe)
Edited by Racefan_uk on Monday 3rd September 02:05
Edited by Racefan_uk on Monday 3rd September 08:00
mybrainhurts said:
Racefan_uk said:
a boblical rain shower
Sp...Bob Little.....
What's a Bob Little rain shower...? We need to know
It's late and I'm tired! (It's not much of an excuse, I grant you. It's also the reason I went off on a bit of a tirade. It wasn't meant to be quite that harsh!)i think that once a red flag is announced it starts at the start/finish and procedes around the track, a individual marshals post cannot show a red.
i have raced at oulton (in a far slower car!) and that part of the track is on a hill after a crest, those drivers would have come over the top of the crest and been passengers once they realised that there was a problem ahead. even if a red flag had been shown at the nearest marshals post as soon as the first cars crahsed it would have been difficult to slow enough to go the correct way around the chicane to avoid the problem.
in conditions like that its also very hard to see flags, barriers, other cars etc, and even with my mini its a case of driving on 'feel'
anybody who says that the guys in that clip wouldnt be racing becasue of the conditions are clearly never going to be drivers themselves!
i have raced at oulton (in a far slower car!) and that part of the track is on a hill after a crest, those drivers would have come over the top of the crest and been passengers once they realised that there was a problem ahead. even if a red flag had been shown at the nearest marshals post as soon as the first cars crahsed it would have been difficult to slow enough to go the correct way around the chicane to avoid the problem.
in conditions like that its also very hard to see flags, barriers, other cars etc, and even with my mini its a case of driving on 'feel'
anybody who says that the guys in that clip wouldnt be racing becasue of the conditions are clearly never going to be drivers themselves!
Dont be a dick mate
the JV comment was in no was a dig at him and is in no way sick you fool
it is a fact that people (oftern marshals) get killed in race accidents so with this in mind it is paramount that they are protected. the jv comment was a reminder of what can happen
you may be a race fan but I am a race driver, i see it diferently to you, and as the other guy says you drive in the wet by feel, but common sence must enter somewhere, and as the footage from in car at one stage shows, if you can't see a thing ( knowing you are on slicks) Guess what the sensible thing to do is????
yes I know the safety vehicles are not on slicks but they are also not driving too fast for the very very obvious conditions.
I bet you anything you like that I could go out on a track on slicks and drive through the biggest puddle you can make, and not spin or lose the car!
why?
because when its wet a sensible driver slows down to accomadate the conditions, and if that has to be 20 mph or even 10 then so be it. but this is not how most racing drivers think especialy when the helmet is on. and this is what happened here.
This happens on the way down a big hill.Before the top of that hill is a climb, UP THAT HILL ie they had to accelerate up it, depending on track configuration that day, there is also a chicane before that which is quite narrow so would need to have been taken slowly,and then accelerated away, and before that there is a hairpin, again not the fastest part of the circuit. are you telling me that it wasn't wet earlier on in the lap and they had NO WAY of avoiding this carnage???
talk sence!
It is very easy to stop a race car on slicks if the driver does the right thing for the conditions. if you are only going slowly you only have to come down from a low speed if you are bombing it along you will not stop on slicks in the wet. this is why drivers are able to stop safely and on the dot when in the pits, ie they are going at the properspeed for the conditions, and if those drivers didn't realise it was raining, they have problems with their eyes, and probably shouldn't be racing!
take the lewis hamilton incident when it suddenly opened the heavens and he and JB and a few others spun off the track 5 or 6 I think it was.
Only winkelhock had the wets or inters on but no one else spun off, guess why??
thats right they slowed down.
before you write something, think it through, theres a good chap.
Racefan_uk said:
spectatorsam said:
so if you could see it as a punter, why could the coc see it and take appropriate measures??
people die!!!! in crashes, ask Jaques Villeneueeevveeu ( how ever you spell it)
People have already explained that it rained on the far side of the circuit. From a great many colleagues who were there that day I have been told that the rain happened on the far side of the track and didn't hit race control or the pitlane until after the carnage had ensued. So, the CoC wasn't aware that conditions were that bad until after all of that took place. I think you'll find that the red flag was shown pretty much immediately by the many skilled marshalls that were at that part of the track that day.people die!!!! in crashes, ask Jaques Villeneueeevveeu ( how ever you spell it)
And as for the 'recovery trucks not sliding about' Err, they're not travelling at racing speed and they're, and this is the important bit, NOT ON SLICK RACING TYRES...
Are you getting the hint yet?
Racing cars are nigh on impossible to slow up on slicks on a wet surface, especially with that amount of water. All of the guys you see in that clip who were involved in the accident were passengers in their cars, because the conditions didn't allow them to slow up and stop.
It wasn't the CoC's fault that the carnage ensued, it was a case of cars being caught out on slicks in a biblical rain shower that caught out the entire field. none of the drivers that day set off thinking that it was raining on that side of the track, as on the rollinng lap just before it was bone dry at that part of the track.
You're ramblings are ill informed, and with the Villeneuve jibe, sick and pathetic. I'd suggest you gather more information, before spouting ill-informed drivel.
(And breathe)
Edited by Racefan_uk on Monday 3rd September 02:05
Edited by Racefan_uk on Monday 3rd September 08:00
Sorry spectatorsam but you are talking out of the smaller of your two oratory orifices!
I have a friend who knows one of the drivers involved in that incident relatively well and he said he was coming down the hill and braking virtually the whole way. Brakes were doing absolutely nothing and he was a passenger the whole way. Nothing to do with going to fast or ignoring the conditions. As others have said this was an onslaught of rain that led to very heavy surface water, in these conditions slicks are so bad it isn't funny.
Normally when you have rain and you are on slicks, the water will build and you can adjust. If the heavens open like that then it is very difficult. There were some good drivers involved in that crash, I think they would say it is very easy to criticise from the sidelines!
I have a friend who knows one of the drivers involved in that incident relatively well and he said he was coming down the hill and braking virtually the whole way. Brakes were doing absolutely nothing and he was a passenger the whole way. Nothing to do with going to fast or ignoring the conditions. As others have said this was an onslaught of rain that led to very heavy surface water, in these conditions slicks are so bad it isn't funny.
Normally when you have rain and you are on slicks, the water will build and you can adjust. If the heavens open like that then it is very difficult. There were some good drivers involved in that crash, I think they would say it is very easy to criticise from the sidelines!
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