how crap is chilton this year
Discussion
just had to put up post about chilton in btcc... what a terrible season for him... think vauxhall should drop him asap and get a decent driver in... he has had lots of oportunities over the last few years in btcc and has done nothing decent for the cars he was driving...im sick of watching his poor performances...!!
soupmonster said:
just had to put up post about chilton in btcc... what a terrible season for him...
Yes, he's been shown up by Giovanardi. But I'd put money on all of the car development being done by, and for the benefit of, Giovanardi. soupmonster said:
think vauxhall should drop him asap and get a decent driver in...
Won't happen. He brings too much £££ to the team. The irony being that Chilton's (or rather, his Dad's) money probably pays Giovanardi's wages! They got rid of Gavin Smith because he was even crapper last year, and he was paying (or rather his Dad was paying) around £250k for the privilege. The Vauxhall 'factory' team started taking the piss by getting in two pay drivers (Smith, Chilton) and only having one pro, in Giovanardi.soupmonster said:
he has had lots of oportunities over the last few years in btcc and has done nothing decent for the cars he was driving...im sick of watching his poor performances...!!
Nothing decent? Isn't he the youngest ever winner of a BTCC race? When he was in the Honda Civic he seemed pretty fast. Another issue is that he doesn't seem to have made his mind up about whether he wants to race in BTCC or ELMS. He only withdrew from this years LeMans because he couldn't make the test day. All in all though I'd say he's a lot better than this year's results make him out to be.I'm sure there are not too many who will feel the same but in a way I feel quite sorry for the kid. He is actually a very nice guy but sadly he has a long history of bringing money to teams and then surrounding himself in PR that makes out he is some sort of factory superstar.
Vauxhall have got what they deserve in that they will not win the manufacturer title this year because they decided to take Chilton's money and not take a driver on his ability - come on with so many people out of work it should have been easy. Rickard Rydell is one kicking his heels in 07!
Its funny because follow another thread Stuart Harris (who a big cheese at Vauxhall) goes very quiet when pressed about Chilton.
So come on Stuart how did 888/yourself and Mike Nicolson come to the conclusion that TC was the "best available driver" for 2007??
I think Colin Turkington must be pretty smug right now....
Vauxhall have got what they deserve in that they will not win the manufacturer title this year because they decided to take Chilton's money and not take a driver on his ability - come on with so many people out of work it should have been easy. Rickard Rydell is one kicking his heels in 07!
Its funny because follow another thread Stuart Harris (who a big cheese at Vauxhall) goes very quiet when pressed about Chilton.
So come on Stuart how did 888/yourself and Mike Nicolson come to the conclusion that TC was the "best available driver" for 2007??
I think Colin Turkington must be pretty smug right now....
Err the economic realities of motorsport appear to have escaped some of my fellow PHers!
Having pay drivers balances the books and means the team is out there at all surely?
Giovanardi won't come cheap and some sponsorship deals like Holiday Inn may be more product (loads of free rooms) than cash!
Perhaps they should have just two average Brits instead of a Touring car superstar plus a pretty decent paying driver?
He seems pretty quick in sportscars but maybe the gap between him and Giovanardi is the latter's ability to make an average car better than it should be?
Having pay drivers balances the books and means the team is out there at all surely?
Giovanardi won't come cheap and some sponsorship deals like Holiday Inn may be more product (loads of free rooms) than cash!
Perhaps they should have just two average Brits instead of a Touring car superstar plus a pretty decent paying driver?
He seems pretty quick in sportscars but maybe the gap between him and Giovanardi is the latter's ability to make an average car better than it should be?
2priestsferrari said:
Economic reality is a fair comment but then again this is a factory team and one would hope that in there somewhere is a desire to win?
A factory team who's ultimate owner (at least in Brand name) sells BILLIONS of pounds worth of cars per year, and who's ultimate, ultimate owner (GM) sells BILLIONS upon BILLIONS of £/$/whatever worth of cars per year. Nobody could seriously believe that they can't afford Rydell, Aiello or anyone of that ilk for £200k a year? Or even David Leslie, Anthony Reid, Phil Bennett, etc, for considerably less than that...
GarrettMacD said:
2priestsferrari said:
Economic reality is a fair comment but then again this is a factory team and one would hope that in there somewhere is a desire to win?
A factory team who's ultimate owner (at least in Brand name) sells BILLIONS of pounds worth of cars per year, and who's ultimate, ultimate owner (GM) sells BILLIONS upon BILLIONS of £/$/whatever worth of cars per year. Nobody could seriously believe that they can't afford Rydell, Aiello or anyone of that ilk for £200k a year? Or even David Leslie, Anthony Reid, Phil Bennett, etc, for considerably less than that...
Excellent thread - everyone is right too - he may be a nice guy but he's perceived as a rich kid with not enough talent to do the job. VX indeed have the money to pay the best drivers.
James Thompson proves that you can be rich and also a shit hot driver. What he's doing in the WTCC with the "vintage" 156 is nothing short of amazing...yet back in the mid '90s he had the same image as Chilton. I concede that his old man (RIP Piggy) was somewhat more respected than Chilton's though.
James Thompson proves that you can be rich and also a shit hot driver. What he's doing in the WTCC with the "vintage" 156 is nothing short of amazing...yet back in the mid '90s he had the same image as Chilton. I concede that his old man (RIP Piggy) was somewhat more respected than Chilton's though.
His results are doubly funny in light of all the smack he talked in the run up to the season. He was going to win this race and that, he was going to win the championship, he was going to annihilate Jason Plato... Sure Tom, that's why Plato's fighting for the crown with your team mate, and you manage to drive over your own bumper.
Perhaps if he learnt to shut his mouth and concentrate a little more on his racing he wouldn't be derided like the clown he is.
Perhaps if he learnt to shut his mouth and concentrate a little more on his racing he wouldn't be derided like the clown he is.
kenthardy said:
Err the economic realities of motorsport appear to have escaped some of my fellow PHers!
Having pay drivers balances the books and means the team is out there at all surely?
IndeedHaving pay drivers balances the books and means the team is out there at all surely?
Who could forget Mike Smith during the M3/RS500 era?
Crashing all by himself on a straight at Birmingham road circuit was particularly memorable.
GarrettMacD said:
A factory team who's ultimate owner (at least in Brand name) sells BILLIONS of pounds worth of cars per year, and who's ultimate, ultimate owner (GM) sells BILLIONS upon BILLIONS of £/$/whatever worth of cars per year.
Nobody could seriously believe that they can't afford Rydell, Aiello or anyone of that ilk for £200k a year? Or even David Leslie, Anthony Reid, Phil Bennett, etc, for considerably less than that...
This is the same GM that's in financial dire straights because it's spent all of its pension funds and now has no surplus cash...Nobody could seriously believe that they can't afford Rydell, Aiello or anyone of that ilk for £200k a year? Or even David Leslie, Anthony Reid, Phil Bennett, etc, for considerably less than that...
Vauxhall is a very small part of the GM jigsaw and they're not likely to spend an extra 100K when they can get it coming in from a pay driver, who's not that slow anyway.
Racefan_uk said:
This is the same GM that's in financial dire straights because it's spent all of its pension funds and now has no surplus cash...
GM, as a car maker, makes hundreds of millions per year. Yes, it has a cash hose in its employee (and ex-employee) programmes, which they are shoring up. That will save them perhaps £500 million per year. They also have considerable cash reserves, and consoderable investments in non-automotive companies. For instance, they are rumoured to have a large investment in Vivid Entertainment, the people who produce high quality porno's. (Or so I've been told,never seen any of it myself obviously...)Racefan_uk said:
Vauxhall is a very small part of the GM jigsaw and they're not likely to spend an extra 100K when they can get it coming in from a pay driver, who's not that slow anyway.
But their profile in BTCC is obviously very important to them. That's why they're cashing in with Corsa VXR's, Astra VXR's, Vectra VXR's, etc. I would suggest that the improved revenues from the VXR range should easily pay for a proper team with two professional drivers. And whilst Chilton is indeed 'not that slow' he seems to be having difficulties in providing decent manufacturer points, unlike SEATi dont mean to be bad on the guy.. its just he has had the best of cars and he rarely comes through with a good drive.. he was quick in the arena honda on occasions. It is starting to annoy me watching this year and the difference between him and his team mate..!! turner is quick no doubt but again took a little long to get going this year too...!! there seems to be a big gap between drivers ..like the premership to the first division... his how i rank them
premership drivers= Plato,Fab Gio,turkington,murray,(if in a good car),jackson
divsion 1 drivers= Turner,jones,shedden,ocole,neal,jordan..(on-cole too early to tell but so far so good)allison could be good also.
The rest are not at the races..!!
drivers that could be v.good are... Adam(i raced against him in clios)
Fildes(raced against him also. having a shit year.. all the same he is quick..hodgets who is making all the clio drivers look adverage this year in fairness..byford also is quick.. would like to see them out in btcc...!!
premership drivers= Plato,Fab Gio,turkington,murray,(if in a good car),jackson
divsion 1 drivers= Turner,jones,shedden,ocole,neal,jordan..(on-cole too early to tell but so far so good)allison could be good also.
The rest are not at the races..!!
drivers that could be v.good are... Adam(i raced against him in clios)
Fildes(raced against him also. having a shit year.. all the same he is quick..hodgets who is making all the clio drivers look adverage this year in fairness..byford also is quick.. would like to see them out in btcc...!!
GM are having a rough time of it financially but then again like McD said that has more to do with US pension obligations and also the fact that the US consumer is now having to pay more than 3 dollars a gallon at the pump (still cheaper than the real world but getting closer!) and also they have experience of BMW, Audi and other quality product and won't stand for the average American naff build quality.
However back to Vauxhall...
End of the day this is a UK only brand and if they don't do BTCC then they are effectively closing the door on motorsport. So if they are going to do it why not do it properly or not at all?
Why should the UK spectator be robbed of proper drivers for the sake of a few hundred grand? Which probably only just covers the sandwich/hotel/bar bill for your average model launch.
When Opel did DTM the Germans would rather poke themselves in the eye with sharp objects than take average drivers for their factory effort.
There are many good drivers but in the Uk there is no ultimate outlet. Take the 2007 BTCC - you have to say that Adam Jones, Shedden and Jackson have all done a nice job on their day but then again you could say that about people like Dan Eaves, Alan Morrison, Phil Bennett and Colin Turkington from the past. So there are 7 drivers who are either paying to do BTCC or not doing a great deal right now but where is the future??
In 2008 Jonathan Adam is hoping to move up but all for what? To get pushed aside so Vauxhall can take another rich kid??
However back to Vauxhall...
End of the day this is a UK only brand and if they don't do BTCC then they are effectively closing the door on motorsport. So if they are going to do it why not do it properly or not at all?
Why should the UK spectator be robbed of proper drivers for the sake of a few hundred grand? Which probably only just covers the sandwich/hotel/bar bill for your average model launch.
When Opel did DTM the Germans would rather poke themselves in the eye with sharp objects than take average drivers for their factory effort.
There are many good drivers but in the Uk there is no ultimate outlet. Take the 2007 BTCC - you have to say that Adam Jones, Shedden and Jackson have all done a nice job on their day but then again you could say that about people like Dan Eaves, Alan Morrison, Phil Bennett and Colin Turkington from the past. So there are 7 drivers who are either paying to do BTCC or not doing a great deal right now but where is the future??
In 2008 Jonathan Adam is hoping to move up but all for what? To get pushed aside so Vauxhall can take another rich kid??
To be fair to TC I think his performances prior to joining Vx were pretty reasonable and last year he acquitted himself fairly well against FG.
This year I'd suggest FG has learned the circuits and the team and is operating at maximum potential - and TC's head has gone because he can't keep up, which makes him try harder and make more mistakes. People might forget that FG is one of the world's top touring car drivers - he's won plenty of championships over the last few years and is renowned for his FWD prowess. Faced with such an onslaught of talent, I'd wager TC has just lost belief and is getting increasingly angry with himself.
I never thought much of TC as a driver (largely because touring car drivers generally aren't very impressive), but his performances in the Zytek in ALMS last year were actually pretty impressive. He wasn't disgraced at all by Shimoda, who's acknowledged to be pretty damn good.
As far as budget comments go, well that's an interesting one. VXRacing's budget is just a small part of the Vauxhall Marketing budget and if they think they'll get more sales from a series of ads in EVO than by employing a different driver then that's up to them. We, in motor racing, will naturally bemoan such things, but marketing is so tightly controlled these days that you've got to have one hell of a case to justify an extra £250k of budget. It's worth pointing out, too, that the Vauxhall purse strings are very heavily influenced by Opel, who had to can their own DTM entry a couple of years ago while Opel underwent job cuts and massive belt-tightening.
This year I'd suggest FG has learned the circuits and the team and is operating at maximum potential - and TC's head has gone because he can't keep up, which makes him try harder and make more mistakes. People might forget that FG is one of the world's top touring car drivers - he's won plenty of championships over the last few years and is renowned for his FWD prowess. Faced with such an onslaught of talent, I'd wager TC has just lost belief and is getting increasingly angry with himself.
I never thought much of TC as a driver (largely because touring car drivers generally aren't very impressive), but his performances in the Zytek in ALMS last year were actually pretty impressive. He wasn't disgraced at all by Shimoda, who's acknowledged to be pretty damn good.
As far as budget comments go, well that's an interesting one. VXRacing's budget is just a small part of the Vauxhall Marketing budget and if they think they'll get more sales from a series of ads in EVO than by employing a different driver then that's up to them. We, in motor racing, will naturally bemoan such things, but marketing is so tightly controlled these days that you've got to have one hell of a case to justify an extra £250k of budget. It's worth pointing out, too, that the Vauxhall purse strings are very heavily influenced by Opel, who had to can their own DTM entry a couple of years ago while Opel underwent job cuts and massive belt-tightening.
Edited by Ahonen on Tuesday 4th September 23:50
Dunk76 said:
Who could forget Mike Smith during the M3/RS500 era?
Crashing all by himself on a straight at Birmingham road circuit was particularly memorable.
But to be fair to him, his driving did improve hugely and by the time he set up Traksport (IIRC) with Gravett, he was doing very well. Those RS500s were not easy cars to drive!Crashing all by himself on a straight at Birmingham road circuit was particularly memorable.
Racefan_uk said:
This is the same GM that's in financial dire straights because it's spent all of its pension funds and now has no surplus cash...
Vauxhall is a very small part of the GM jigsaw and they're not likely to spend an extra 100K when they can get it coming in from a pay driver, who's not that slow anyway.
That doesn't stop Ford putting money into WRC though does it? Or GM spending fortunes in NASCAR truck racing in the US. £100k or more likely £200k is a drip in the ocean compared with the costs of running the team, but I'm betting that Chilton pays far more than that for his seat. Vauxhall is a very small part of the GM jigsaw and they're not likely to spend an extra 100K when they can get it coming in from a pay driver, who's not that slow anyway.
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