Autosport's Mark Hughes has it spot on...

[motormania]

In the current climate of the spy saga and the mud slinging at Alonso, might I suggest that you all take onboard what Mark Hughes says in this weeks Autosport...

'This is a battlefield, not an etiquette finishing school'

I think many should read his piece this week and you'll soon realise that F1 is a VERY different world and we need to accept that, sit back and enjoy the fight between two team mates. Lets be honest, over the past few years prior to Alonso's double championship, we had a team that would not let their drivers fight it out on track, so you should all be glad that McLaren allow it, and enjoy it to the end...

Personally, I feel that Alonso, although still 2 points behind Lewis, now has the edge over him and we are soon to witness Alonso taking his third successive title and good on him for not playing the political game, and staying focussed on winning, even if at all costs

Edited by motormania on Thursday 20th September 13:35

[grumbledoak]

It isn't much of a "battlefield" when only one team is allowed to win.

I'll watch something else, thanks.

[Piglet]

Yup battlefields indicate battles inter team rather than intra team.

Whilst I'm not sorry to see the end of the very obvious 1 & 2 at Ferarri, F1 has always been and is a team game that requires co-operation at the highest levels. Teams don't operate at their best if they are fighting amongst themselves as their energies are diverted inward rather than outward towards the opposition.

[996 Nobbys]

motormania said:

In the current climate of the spy saga and the mud slinging at Alonso, might I suggest that you all take onboard what Mark Hughes says in this weeks Autosport...

'This is a battlefield, not an etiquette finishing school'

I think many should read his piece this week and you'll soon realise that F1 is a VERY different world and we need to accept that, sit back and enjoy the fight between two team mates. Lets be honest, over the past few years prior to Alonso's double championship, we had a team that would not let their drivers fight it out on track, so you should all be glad that McLaren allow it, and enjoy it to the end...

Personally, I feel that Alonso, although still 2 points behind Lewis, now has the edge over him and we are soon to witness Alonso taking his third successive title and good on him for not playing the political game, and staying focussed on winning, even if at all costs

Edited by motormania on Thursday 20th September 13:35

thank god someone who talks sense

[chris_w]

motormania said:

...good on him for not playing the political game, and staying focussed on winning, even if at all costs

Agree with almost all you say except the above, sounds like he got very political with Ron in Hungary... but he has driven impressively in the second half of the year.

[rubystone]

chris_w said:

motormania said:

...good on him for not playing the political game, and staying focussed on winning, even if at all costs

Agree with almost all you say except the above, sounds like he got very political with Ron in Hungary... but he has driven impressively in the second half of the year.

Wold it be too machiavellian to suggest that having considered his inadvertent blurting out of the email evidence facts to RD and having received instructions from RD to report to Max, Alonso was then presented with the ideal opportunity to cut a deal with the FIA?

Furthermore, by using someone else to broker that deal with Bernie he ensured that his drivers' points were safeguarded by the one man who knew what effect it would have on the sport if the drivers were to lose their points?

Or was he simply doing what Ron told him?

...and do we think that the FIA knew full well what the content of those emails was BEFORE writing the letters to the 3 McLaren drivers?...

[10 Pence Short]

rubystone said:

...and do we think that the FIA knew full well what the content of those emails was BEFORE writing the letters to the 3 McLaren drivers?...

Of course it did. The hope would be that Ron Dennis would order them to say nothing, then the Ferrari Club (known as the FIA) could have thrown them all out, lock stock and barrel.

[HiRich]

motormania said:

'This is a battlefield, not an etiquette finishing school'

Taking the metaphor further, would you go into battle with someone who won't cover your back?

Over and above the decision on an appeal, it would be desperately naive if the shareholders of McLaren have failed to recognise the nature of the "war" they are now part of. I would be astonished if Dennis, Haug, Ojjeh and Whitmarsh had not initiated a war council to decide how they deal with their combatants from hereon. As well as the FIA, Ferrari, any other teams, that would have to include Alonso and perhaps de la Rosa.

With only the drivers championship to consider, different rules apply. What is Alonso's value to the team now? Is he their title favourite, despite being behind in the points, or is he a banker should Hamilton fail (and in the meantime taking points away from him)?
In short I would not be surprised, and to some degree disappointed by McLaren's naivety, if the No1 car still has Alonso's name on the side in a few days time.

[toomuchbeer]

10 Pence Short said:

rubystone said:

...and do we think that the FIA knew full well what the content of those emails was BEFORE writing the letters to the 3 McLaren drivers?...

Of course it did. The hope would be that Ron Dennis would order them to say nothing, then the Ferrari Club (known as the FIA) could have thrown them all out, lock stock and barrel.

Put simply, there were trying to create a situation where the FIA could catch RD/McLaren lieing.

[Heebeegeetee]

Piglet said:

Yup battlefields indicate battles inter team rather than intra team.

F1 has always been and is a team game that requires co-operation at the highest levels.

The great drivers have always been selfish, and are not by nature team players. They are only 'team players' when everything is going their way, but if not, then they do all they can to get things to suit them.

There is nothing new in the mclaren situation this year.

[Piglet]

Heebeegeetee said:

Piglet said:

Yup battlefields indicate battles inter team rather than intra team.

F1 has always been and is a team game that requires co-operation at the highest levels.

The great drivers have always been selfish, and are not by nature team players. They are only 'team players' when everything is going their way, but if not, then they do all they can to get things to suit them.

There is nothing new in the mclaren situation this year.

I think there is a difference between rivalry which can be positive and the type of destructive behaviour we appear to be seeing. I'm not doubting there have been similar scenarious in the past what I'm saying is that it isn't a formula that leads to an effective team where all parts of moving towards the same goal.

[hornetrider]

chris_w said:

motormania said:

...good on him for not playing the political game, and staying focussed on winning, even if at all costs

Agree with almost all you say except the above, sounds like he got very political with Ron in Hungary... but he has driven impressively in the second half of the year.

Agree 100% with you mate.

How can you say FA has not been political? He expressed desire to be favoured No1 in a team which never does, and hung RD and McL out to dry when he didn't get what he wanted.

[ph123]

... I'd hate to see any unreliability issues raise their head right now at McLaren ...

[Graham]

ph123 said:

... I'd hate to see any unreliability issues raise their head right now at McLaren ...

What you mean as the Ferrari parts start to filter in

[Slippydiff]

ph123 said:

... I'd hate to see any unreliability issues raise their head right now at McLaren ...

I was under the impression that Ferrari Internal Affairs had a quite word with RD and told him that no preferrential treatment was to be given to either of his drivers. If he was seen to be doing so he'd have more sh*t heading his way ?

By "preferential treatment" they clearly meant FAs engine inexplicably going bang...............

[chris_w]

Slippydiff said:

I was under the impression that Ferrari Internal Affairs had a quite word with RD and told him that no preferrential treatment was to be given to either of his drivers.

Which is, of course, highly ironic given that it was Ron's refusal to give preferential treatment to Alonso that kicked this all off again... bet he doesn't know whether to laugh or cry some days.

[LongQ]

Slippydiff said:

By "preferential treatment" they clearly meant FAs engine inexplicably going bang...............

Crikey, yes indeed.

Better give him a new one for each race then ...

[LongQ]

chris_w said:

Slippydiff said:

I was under the impression that Ferrari Internal Affairs had a quite word with RD and told him that no preferrential treatment was to be given to either of his drivers.

Which is, of course, highly ironic given that it was Ron's refusal to give preferential treatment to Alonso that kicked this all off again... bet he doesn't know whether to laugh or cry some days.

Actually I think what he meant was that he DID want the drivers with the now public emails to be positively assisted.

Effectively he was offering FIA immunity and forcing McL to do the same.

Which is odd.

I wonder how any of that, FIA or McL side, fits with employment law or, more the case, contracts in place with agents.

It seems that he offers them absolution by letter, then it is reported that he wanted them removed from the championship and then he wants them protected from any possible negative response within their team - though how he would prove that is unclear.

That despite some very strange penalty decisions related to Alonso and McL in Hungary.

No wonder McL have decided not to appeal in the hope of obtaining closure. Mosley seems to be exhibiting the same sort of 'consistency' as Robert Mugabe. Who knows what his next decision might be?

Edited by LongQ on Friday 21st September 12:21