Discussion
I'm not sure if this is the right section on the forum, but here goes:
Myself and my cousin are looking fairly seriously into buying a 2nd hand 100cc 2-stroke kart (for between £500-£1000) getting suited, booted, helmeted and licensed, then going racing. Been looking on eBay at various karts for sale, the question is - are there and good, or reliable, or known to be fast makes of kart, and are there any "duff" models to avoid?
Myself and my cousin are looking fairly seriously into buying a 2nd hand 100cc 2-stroke kart (for between £500-£1000) getting suited, booted, helmeted and licensed, then going racing. Been looking on eBay at various karts for sale, the question is - are there and good, or reliable, or known to be fast makes of kart, and are there any "duff" models to avoid?
You may possibly need to stretch your budget by a very small amount (but not necessarily if you're lucky on ebay) but I'd say Rotax Max is the way to go - a good combination of pace, plentiful spares and advice, good grid sizes at pretty much any circuit, they've got a clutch, electric start, etc.
Check out the forums and market place on www.karting.co.uk
Check out the forums and market place on www.karting.co.uk
My original reply just disappeared...
Anyway, at the risk of repeating myself, I'd suggest Rotax Max is the way to go. This gives you pretty good pace, easily-available spares, good grid sizes, a clutch, electric start, etc.
Check out the forums and market place on www.karting.co.uk
Anyway, at the risk of repeating myself, I'd suggest Rotax Max is the way to go. This gives you pretty good pace, easily-available spares, good grid sizes, a clutch, electric start, etc.
Check out the forums and market place on www.karting.co.uk
Yeah you will struggle to find a race for a 100cc kart unfortunatly.
Before you buy a kart go to at least three race meetings at your local circuit, ask the questions, find out about the karts etc etc. Then buy a kart and safety equipment. Also a licence may be necessary for you depending on which circuit you plan on racing at.
Just to give you an idea of how many classes there are in the UK I will list the majority of them off the top of my head there may be more (only the senior classes)! So make sure you get it right first time and not waste your money.
Prokart
World Formula
TKM 4 Stroke
TKM Extreme
Rotax Max
KF1
KF2
KZ1
KZ2
DD2
100 National
250E
250N
Villiers 210
Easykart G/B
Easykart DD
Biland
And that's all I can think of atm. But to be honest your best bet for a race anywhere in the UK would be a Rotax Max.
Also as someone mentioned earlier ask on www.karting.co.uk
Edit: looking at where you live Bedford?? I would say your local circuit is Kimbolton: http://www.hkrc.co.uk/
Paul
Before you buy a kart go to at least three race meetings at your local circuit, ask the questions, find out about the karts etc etc. Then buy a kart and safety equipment. Also a licence may be necessary for you depending on which circuit you plan on racing at.
Just to give you an idea of how many classes there are in the UK I will list the majority of them off the top of my head there may be more (only the senior classes)! So make sure you get it right first time and not waste your money.
Prokart
World Formula
TKM 4 Stroke
TKM Extreme
Rotax Max
KF1
KF2
KZ1
KZ2
DD2
100 National
250E
250N
Villiers 210
Easykart G/B
Easykart DD
Biland
And that's all I can think of atm. But to be honest your best bet for a race anywhere in the UK would be a Rotax Max.
Also as someone mentioned earlier ask on www.karting.co.uk
Edit: looking at where you live Bedford?? I would say your local circuit is Kimbolton: http://www.hkrc.co.uk/
Paul
Edited by intrepid44 on Monday 19th November 21:30
There are some bargins on ebay, but there are alot of dogs on there too. Best thing as the guys above said is to go to your local kart circuit/club and find out what they race in your area. Rotax Max is the most thriving class (not necessarily the best) but I would imagine the initial cost of the kart is out side your budget. The other popular class is TKM extreme which is a far simpler 115cc kart, which can be bought within your budget, but this doesnt attract the same grids as Rotax.
Karts can be very expensive to race competively, even at club level. Even club100 2stroke arrive and drive championship costs £1500 a year. However a slighty older tkm (ie 2/3 years old) can be great fun to take to owner driver arrive and drives for very little money..
A really really good site is www.karting1.co.uk really great blokes on there and all the info you need to get going.
Karts can be very expensive to race competively, even at club level. Even club100 2stroke arrive and drive championship costs £1500 a year. However a slighty older tkm (ie 2/3 years old) can be great fun to take to owner driver arrive and drives for very little money..
A really really good site is www.karting1.co.uk really great blokes on there and all the info you need to get going.
I've had the joy of owning / driving a 100 TKM, 125 National and 250E.
I would do some research by going along to a test day, then a race day at your local circuit and just looking at what seems to be offering the sort of racing you want, at a budget you can afford, and a make that is still eligable for competition and will be competitive.
One option is to buy a secondhand kart from the circuit. At Rye House (Hoddesdon) the owners (Deavinsons) sold secondhand karts and the kit was at least straight.
I would also look at the race reports in Karting magazine. You will learn what is worth buying and what isn't.
A good first move might be to get the MSA licence then you get the Blue Book, study the regs and then you know what you are able to buy in terms of safety gear and karts eligable to race.
I would do some research by going along to a test day, then a race day at your local circuit and just looking at what seems to be offering the sort of racing you want, at a budget you can afford, and a make that is still eligable for competition and will be competitive.
One option is to buy a secondhand kart from the circuit. At Rye House (Hoddesdon) the owners (Deavinsons) sold secondhand karts and the kit was at least straight.
I would also look at the race reports in Karting magazine. You will learn what is worth buying and what isn't.
A good first move might be to get the MSA licence then you get the Blue Book, study the regs and then you know what you are able to buy in terms of safety gear and karts eligable to race.
i would go for a prokart for a few reasons.
if you are buying it with a friend, you can do the long distance endurance style races which would be more fun. they are very reliable, the twin engined karts are fast and, despite having a different power characteristics and ultimately not as fast as a rotax max, easily enough to get you heart rate up. a prokart does not require the same level of maintenance/fettling as a two stroke and is easier to set up. i would imagine the running costs of a prokart to be less than anything else over a season.
if you are buying it with a friend, you can do the long distance endurance style races which would be more fun. they are very reliable, the twin engined karts are fast and, despite having a different power characteristics and ultimately not as fast as a rotax max, easily enough to get you heart rate up. a prokart does not require the same level of maintenance/fettling as a two stroke and is easier to set up. i would imagine the running costs of a prokart to be less than anything else over a season.
pablo said:
i would go for a prokart for a few reasons.
if you are buying it with a friend, you can do the long distance endurance style races which would be more fun. they are very reliable, the twin engined karts are fast and, despite having a different power characteristics and ultimately not as fast as a rotax max, easily enough to get you heart rate up. a prokart does not require the same level of maintenance/fettling as a two stroke and is easier to set up. i would imagine the running costs of a prokart to be less than anything else over a season.
I would agree with Pablo. If you are racing on a shoestring, Prokarts are the best way to go. A season in Rotax Max will cost you a few grand and that's just to turn up. If you are hoping to win, you'll need new tyres for every race, engine rebuilds, etc.if you are buying it with a friend, you can do the long distance endurance style races which would be more fun. they are very reliable, the twin engined karts are fast and, despite having a different power characteristics and ultimately not as fast as a rotax max, easily enough to get you heart rate up. a prokart does not require the same level of maintenance/fettling as a two stroke and is easier to set up. i would imagine the running costs of a prokart to be less than anything else over a season.
You could also try arrive and drive Championships like Covkart and Club100.
looking at where you live a pro kart wouldn't be a bad idea as there is plenty of endurance races at whilton, sandown, milton keynes etc...and they're fairly cheap and reliable....but...having raced pro karts, tkm, rotax max and bilands. the 2 strokes are so much more fun to drive and much quicker than the pro karts. for a grand you could pick up a retirement sale in tkm extreme with pretty much everything you need but most of the decent size fields would be in the midlands or the north where as rotax max has decent size grids in most places but are more expensive to buy and run..
hope this helps..
hope this helps..
Nice replies chaps, thanks a lot!
We're not looking to be especially competitive really, neither of us are god's gift to karting, and we don't have the money! Rotax Max karts look ace - but looking at some of the rules, and costs, that's probably a no-go.
I think the general idea is to pick up something cheapish and oldish, 2nd hand off ebay/karting.co.uk classifieds, that sort of thing. Something that we can take apart and tinker with, take to test days for fun, play about with some home written data-logging software, and perhaps enter an event or two for the fun of it. Obviously we'd like to be semi-competitive, perhaps fighting over the back end of the middle pack, I dunno...! A whole season would be off the cards, for time/commitment issues as well as financial issues!
What's Formula Libre like for races? I see it listed on karting.co.uk as a 100cc direct drive (i.e. cheap and simple!) class. I also see lots of 100cc direct drive karts for not too much money on ebay!
I also see lots of TKM 100cc machines going for sensible prices... Hmmm!
We're not looking to be especially competitive really, neither of us are god's gift to karting, and we don't have the money! Rotax Max karts look ace - but looking at some of the rules, and costs, that's probably a no-go.
I think the general idea is to pick up something cheapish and oldish, 2nd hand off ebay/karting.co.uk classifieds, that sort of thing. Something that we can take apart and tinker with, take to test days for fun, play about with some home written data-logging software, and perhaps enter an event or two for the fun of it. Obviously we'd like to be semi-competitive, perhaps fighting over the back end of the middle pack, I dunno...! A whole season would be off the cards, for time/commitment issues as well as financial issues!
What's Formula Libre like for races? I see it listed on karting.co.uk as a 100cc direct drive (i.e. cheap and simple!) class. I also see lots of 100cc direct drive karts for not too much money on ebay!
I also see lots of TKM 100cc machines going for sensible prices... Hmmm!
Whichever way you go you will need to do your ARKs test to get a licence, try to do your test at the track you will race at ( you will have to lap within 10% of a good time for the kart at the circuit) Do the test with a driver training/ARKs test school.Rotax Max typically costs for a 10 race club season with practice Saturday race Sunday including entry fees practice day fees, wear and tear petrol tyres etc is approx £2500 ie £250 per race weekend, typically 45 mins racing on Sunday and an Hour practice on Saturday, ie £55 per week. The biggest single cost will be tyres but you can choose not to buy tyres as often if you are prepared to accept the time penalty.Other classes may be cheaper on tyres but engine costs are more ( Rotax offer a 3 month warranty on a new engine and will stand by the product up to six months if they believe it may be a manufacturing fault) rebuild is after 2 seasons of club racing as detailed above.The maintainance is minimal for a racing vehicle, one evening would sort it out between events. Go to the track you will race at, see what people are racing, which chassis manufacturers have spares for sale at the circuit and can advise on set up etc. Get some training afer a few months so any bad habits an be caught and corrected early. Be aware of resale value, Rotax has a huge following and a ready market for the right Chassis...Complete outfit seond hand expet to pay £1500 to include wets and dashboard.Have fun !!! I dont believe there is better value motorsport!!!
Been doing some more reading... The TKMs would appear to be the best 2 stroke category to go for, but doesn't cater for myself and my cousin sharing any driving at a single event. I suppose we could take turns perhaps...
Pro Karts, as mentioned above look good value. Obviously not as fast as the 2 strokes, but perhaps better for us as a stepping stone? Also, we'd be able to share the driving in the endurance races - which was the idea after all.
Are there any team endurance events for 2 stroke karts?
Pro Karts, as mentioned above look good value. Obviously not as fast as the 2 strokes, but perhaps better for us as a stepping stone? Also, we'd be able to share the driving in the endurance races - which was the idea after all.
Are there any team endurance events for 2 stroke karts?
timbob said:
Are there any team endurance events for 2 stroke karts?
It's been 3 years since I stopped racing TKM's, and at the time the only team endurance events for 2 strokes I knew of were through club 100 - where you can't race your own karts. Things may have changed since then though!I can't really add anything new to what others have already said, but if you didn't know most/all TKM classes now run with 115 cc engines after the rules changed about 4 years ago. If you buy a 100 cc engine then you would almost certainly need to get it up to 115 cc if you are planning to compete in this class, otherwise you would be racing for last spot!
timbob
Was in exactly the same situation as yourself a few years back. Mate and I decided to go for a Twin Prokart, partly due to reduced costs/ simpler running compared to 2-stroke. Went to local club that we'd been doing some arrive & drive stuff at (Raceland near Edinburgh) and asked about, talked to some owner-drivers and sounded-out what was for sale. Ended-up buying the previous season's kart from the reigning Scottish Enduro champs. They let us have a full day's testing before we committed to buying.
Like yourselves, we'd realistically wanted to be running mid-field in enduro, but it eventually became infuriating to find that our laptimes were often quite competitive, but that we didn't have the budget to maintain an advantage over the 'front-runner' teams that were replacing tyres every 2 hours to our every 6, particularly when our half-worn slicks were losing us a second or so a lap on a 55-ish sec circuit.
It was still fun, though. The kart lived at the circuit, we had a deal for free testing, so often we'd pitch-up just to rag the kart round and play with setup, which was often just as much fun as racing, as there were usually other owner-drivers also out on the circuit, so it wasn't competitive at all, honest... Prokarts are generally reliable; we dropped an exhaust valve into a cylinder at full power and didn't damage anything! The kart threw its chain a few times and centrifugal clutches can wear, but you shouldn't find yourself having to spend much on parts.
But... midway through our season I had a go in a 100cc 2-stroke. It was soooooooo much faster, with knife-edge handling, compared to the Prokart, that I didn't want to go back!
On the whole, I'd seriously consider an arrive & drive series instead of committing to running your own kart. A bit more of a level playing field, you're not forking out for tyres etc. If you do buy one and enter enduro with a mate, it'll help if you're closely matched ability-wise as well, otherwise one of you may get frustrated!
Lastly, our alternative project to buying the Prokart was to split a trackday car. In retrospect a £1k 205 GTi would have been cheaper and at least as much fun...
Was in exactly the same situation as yourself a few years back. Mate and I decided to go for a Twin Prokart, partly due to reduced costs/ simpler running compared to 2-stroke. Went to local club that we'd been doing some arrive & drive stuff at (Raceland near Edinburgh) and asked about, talked to some owner-drivers and sounded-out what was for sale. Ended-up buying the previous season's kart from the reigning Scottish Enduro champs. They let us have a full day's testing before we committed to buying.
Like yourselves, we'd realistically wanted to be running mid-field in enduro, but it eventually became infuriating to find that our laptimes were often quite competitive, but that we didn't have the budget to maintain an advantage over the 'front-runner' teams that were replacing tyres every 2 hours to our every 6, particularly when our half-worn slicks were losing us a second or so a lap on a 55-ish sec circuit.
It was still fun, though. The kart lived at the circuit, we had a deal for free testing, so often we'd pitch-up just to rag the kart round and play with setup, which was often just as much fun as racing, as there were usually other owner-drivers also out on the circuit, so it wasn't competitive at all, honest... Prokarts are generally reliable; we dropped an exhaust valve into a cylinder at full power and didn't damage anything! The kart threw its chain a few times and centrifugal clutches can wear, but you shouldn't find yourself having to spend much on parts.
But... midway through our season I had a go in a 100cc 2-stroke. It was soooooooo much faster, with knife-edge handling, compared to the Prokart, that I didn't want to go back!
On the whole, I'd seriously consider an arrive & drive series instead of committing to running your own kart. A bit more of a level playing field, you're not forking out for tyres etc. If you do buy one and enter enduro with a mate, it'll help if you're closely matched ability-wise as well, otherwise one of you may get frustrated!
Lastly, our alternative project to buying the Prokart was to split a trackday car. In retrospect a £1k 205 GTi would have been cheaper and at least as much fun...
timbob said:
Are there any team endurance events for 2 stroke karts?
There are - check out http://www.oekc.co.ukGood bunch of guys, teams covering the spectrum of abilities so you'll always have someone to race against, very cheap tyres (£60 or so for a set), cheap entry fees (£150 for 4.5 hrs), near Daventry so easy to get to, non-MSA so you don't need a licence.
Edited by Redmax on Wednesday 21st November 18:55
There's a new class of 2 stroke , not in your original budget but if you look to buy it on tick not much more expensive than your original plan.
you will need to get a licence though.
its the easykart by birel only introduced in this country last year.
They are the cheapest brand new 2 stroke kart you will buy and they are on a Birel chassis which is a very good make.
http://www.easykart.co.uk/karts.htm
Ive been karting for years and I wish these had been around when I was starting. my first prokart ten years back cost what these do now.
i don't know if there are plans for enduro racing though. take a good read of this website.
you will need to get a licence though.
its the easykart by birel only introduced in this country last year.
They are the cheapest brand new 2 stroke kart you will buy and they are on a Birel chassis which is a very good make.
http://www.easykart.co.uk/karts.htm
Ive been karting for years and I wish these had been around when I was starting. my first prokart ten years back cost what these do now.
i don't know if there are plans for enduro racing though. take a good read of this website.
timbob said:
I'm not sure if this is the right section on the forum, but here goes:
Myself and my cousin are looking fairly seriously into buying a 2nd hand 100cc 2-stroke kart (for between £500-£1000) getting suited, booted, helmeted and licensed, then going racing. Been looking on eBay at various karts for sale, the question is - are there and good, or reliable, or known to be fast makes of kart, and are there any "duff" models to avoid?
Check karting.co.ukMyself and my cousin are looking fairly seriously into buying a 2nd hand 100cc 2-stroke kart (for between £500-£1000) getting suited, booted, helmeted and licensed, then going racing. Been looking on eBay at various karts for sale, the question is - are there and good, or reliable, or known to be fast makes of kart, and are there any "duff" models to avoid?
Check ICC in my profile, prokart is good for cheap and simple karting or maybe a rotax, depends on how fast you want to go, have you driven a real kart?
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