Montoya is on the Winning Daytona 24 hour team again
Discussion
Graham Hill is the only one thats done the biggy! Mario Andretti is missing Le Mans to complete his set.
The fact is Montoya didn't win much in F1, he has won the Daytona race because he was driving the best car out there! He hasn't tried Le Mans yet. Dario, he may not have got to F1 but he was in the DTM. AJ Foyt has always been successful.
There are alot of people in the same boat but the Full Set is Le Mans, Indy 500, F1 Championship. Jim Clark like Andretti, missed Le Mans.
The fact is Montoya didn't win much in F1, he has won the Daytona race because he was driving the best car out there! He hasn't tried Le Mans yet. Dario, he may not have got to F1 but he was in the DTM. AJ Foyt has always been successful.
There are alot of people in the same boat but the Full Set is Le Mans, Indy 500, F1 Championship. Jim Clark like Andretti, missed Le Mans.
misunderstood said:
EDLT said:
Has anyone ever made a successful switch to/from rallying?
Walter Rohl. Harri Toivonen. Gerry Marshall, Jim Clark. Ahonen said:
misunderstood said:
EDLT said:
Has anyone ever made a successful switch to/from rallying?
Walter Rohl. Harri Toivonen. Gerry Marshall, Jim Clark. 
Never knew he did some rallying too, though it doesn't surprise me after his ROC performance. 
TVR Moneypit said:
Didn't Stirling Moss used to rally a Jaguar?
or was that his sister Pat?
He did some rally's but not seriously. His sister was a works BMC driver in 'Big' Healey 3000's. She won at least one international outright - I think it may have been the Alpine.or was that his sister Pat?
However, Stirling was as fast as Fangio in GP cars, and faster in GT cars, so has a claim as 'Best Even All-Rounder' even if he tragically never won the championship.
BTW Fangio did win some mad long distance rallys in S America before the war...
SS7
shoestring7 said:
TVR Moneypit said:
Didn't Stirling Moss used to rally a Jaguar?
or was that his sister Pat?
He did some rally's but not seriously. His sister was a works BMC driver in 'Big' Healey 3000's. She won at least one international outright - I think it may have been the Alpine.or was that his sister Pat?
However, Stirling was as fast as Fangio in GP cars, and faster in GT cars, so has a claim as 'Best Even All-Rounder' even if he tragically never won the championship.
BTW Fangio did win some mad long distance rallys in S America before the war...
SS7
In terms of the original question I am really pleased that Montoya is doing well as I think he is one of the drivers who has incredible car control, just maybe lacked some of the self control needed to excel on a regular basis in F1.
JV has to be another candidate from recent times but unfortunately with his current US contract is unlikely to be at Le Mans this year.
Ahonen said:
misunderstood said:
Jim Clark ... missed Le Mans.
That set me off into an idle day dream. Can you imagine Jim Clark in a Porsche 917? That would've been incredible.Clark raced at LM in one of the lower classes in a Lotus Elite (?) once, which permanently damaged his hearing.
this photo always makes me laugh
also a fan of Vic Elford
quote ""
Vic Elford went on to point out, "The long tail had to be driven like it was on rails".
I have a personal theory on why the 917 was considered so hard to drive. Many of the sportscar drivers of the day were used to sliding the shorter bodywork powerful cars, like in "Can Am" on the shorter USA tracks in a "Can Am" car they could drive and steer with the accelerator, this style was spectacular and flamboyant. But on the higher speed European tracks if a driver got a long tail more than a bit out of line, they would crash. And if a 917 crashed at race speed, drivers -more often than not- died.
Add to this the fact that no one had really driven at the kind of speed the 917 was producing, so the aerodynamic stability was new territory. However, with the 917 actually putting fear into many drivers, it can be understood how the car became known as "The Ulcer", or more often, "The Widow maker." Vic Elford also commented, "If handled right the long tail was devastating, I once took the kink at Le Mans at 245 MPH in the wet and the dark!" He then enlarged the statement with "Not exactly first go, it took a lot of practice till I had the nerve to even attempt it in the daylight. I honestly believe that only a few drivers ever came to grips with the 917's specific driving requirements, I believe I did, and as testimony I am still alive when so many are not".
On the short tailed car Elford commented, "the short tail was also a lethal beast, the tail section was just kind of cut off, we had no wind tunnel testing, so it was just cut the tail off, and away we went!" The result was that the car had huge lift at the rear, if you backed off suddenly from 220 MPH (in pure fright I presume!) the rear of the car would almost take off". From what Elford has said, any driver who survived the earlier 917s must have been good.
great book here
DBSV8 said:
On the short tailed car Elford commented, "the short tail was also a lethal beast, the tail section was just kind of cut off, we had no wind tunnel testing, so it was just cut the tail off, and away we went!" The result was that the car had huge lift at the rear, if you backed off suddenly from 220 MPH (in pure fright I presume!) the rear of the car would almost take off". From what Elford has said, any driver who survived the earlier 917s must have been good.
His memory doesn't align with the JWA stories. The team ran a test in Austria modifying the rear bodywork using tin snips and alloy sheet. Eventually they created something like the short-tail version. The drivers reported an instant improvement in stability and lap speeds were several seconds faster. Watcht the Gulf short-tail cars in videos' there's plenty of controllable oversteer on display.SS7
Vic Elford is a legend - I sat next to him at the Chatsworth Rally Day. He's still got it, and is one of the most matter-of-fact people I've ever met. A proper old-skool gentlemen.
I seem to remember hearing that he lived out what is probably all of our fantasies: he was a mechanic and (if memory serves) was volunteered to shake down a car - he was so quick he ended up with a drive! I may be wrong though, feel free to correct.
While we're vaguely on the subject of slightly dodgy aero... there's a great story about the development of the 6R4. During testing they decided that a bit of downforce was required so they added some aerodynamic bits - being that this was British Leyland, they weren't exactly flush with cash so it was a case of, "that looks like an upsidedown wing, shove it on there". Running the same course again every corner was taken at least a gear higher - brilliant, they thought: until the car started stuttering and overheating. On further investigation they discovered that the 'aero' adenda was actually sucking cold air away from scoops and shoving hot air that was trying to escape through vents, back into the engine bay and brake ducts. Needless to say - they went back to the drawing board.
Perhaps they should try that in F1 - Aero's allowed, but they have to guess.
I seem to remember hearing that he lived out what is probably all of our fantasies: he was a mechanic and (if memory serves) was volunteered to shake down a car - he was so quick he ended up with a drive! I may be wrong though, feel free to correct.
While we're vaguely on the subject of slightly dodgy aero... there's a great story about the development of the 6R4. During testing they decided that a bit of downforce was required so they added some aerodynamic bits - being that this was British Leyland, they weren't exactly flush with cash so it was a case of, "that looks like an upsidedown wing, shove it on there". Running the same course again every corner was taken at least a gear higher - brilliant, they thought: until the car started stuttering and overheating. On further investigation they discovered that the 'aero' adenda was actually sucking cold air away from scoops and shoving hot air that was trying to escape through vents, back into the engine bay and brake ducts. Needless to say - they went back to the drawing board.
Perhaps they should try that in F1 - Aero's allowed, but they have to guess.
MrKipling43 said:
While we're vaguely on the subject of slightly dodgy aero... there's a great story about the development of the 6R4. During testing they decided that a bit of downforce was required so they added some aerodynamic bits - being that this was British Leyland, they weren't exactly flush with cash so it was a case of, "that looks like an upsidedown wing, shove it on there". Running the same course again every corner was taken at least a gear higher - brilliant, they thought: until the car started stuttering and overheating. On further investigation they discovered that the 'aero' adenda was actually sucking cold air away from scoops and shoving hot air that was trying to escape through vents, back into the engine bay and brake ducts. Needless to say - they went back to the drawing board.
That may be something of an urban myth. The 6R4 prototypes were all designed and built by Williams Grand Prix Engineering, who are fairly handy on the aero side of things.It was true that the front wing extension had a slightly odd effect, but the 6R4 was a very well developed car - except the one that Steve Soper rolled into a ball in front of all the Austin Rover top brass, plus Frank Williams and Patrick Head. At the time it was the only one in existence and young Soper wasn't exactly flavour of the month for a while...
pugster said:
JV has won the Indy 500, the CART championship and the F1 championship (don't think he won at Monaco though?)
Obviously in Nascar for 08.
Also is he having another crack at Le Mans with Peugeot this year?
Just read on Autosport that J.V has been confirmed with Peugeot for another crack at Le Mans this year. Obviously in Nascar for 08.
Also is he having another crack at Le Mans with Peugeot this year?
If he does manage a win in the 24 hours i am struggling to think of any drivers from the "modern" era that has such a record of success in varied categories of racing? (and there's still Nascar to come)
Cheers.
pugster said:
pugster said:
JV has won the Indy 500, the CART championship and the F1 championship (don't think he won at Monaco though?)
Obviously in Nascar for 08.
Also is he having another crack at Le Mans with Peugeot this year?
Just read on Autosport that J.V has been confirmed with Peugeot for another crack at Le Mans this year. Obviously in Nascar for 08.
Also is he having another crack at Le Mans with Peugeot this year?
If he does manage a win in the 24 hours i am struggling to think of any drivers from the "modern" era that has such a record of success in varied categories of racing? (and there's still Nascar to come)
Cheers.
SS7
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