Ecclestone questions Australian GP future
Discussion
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/64960
Appreciate the novelty of this years night race and other countries are considering them, but this appears purely around $£$£$'s from TV rights - ie FOM get less out of it due to the time of day it is shown (has anyone noted that the races for us during the night or early morning Australia/Japan/Malaysia seem to have less adverts in between) - or is Bernie getting too old for jet-setting around all corners of the world?
However different circuits / countries are always welcomed there a few on the calendar that need to remain. Australasia is one of them for me - maybe a co-share with New Zealand; others include Spa and of course Silverstone (although seeing F1 return to Donnington would be another great)
I'd also like to see a return to Mexico / South Africa
Appreciate the novelty of this years night race and other countries are considering them, but this appears purely around $£$£$'s from TV rights - ie FOM get less out of it due to the time of day it is shown (has anyone noted that the races for us during the night or early morning Australia/Japan/Malaysia seem to have less adverts in between) - or is Bernie getting too old for jet-setting around all corners of the world?
However different circuits / countries are always welcomed there a few on the calendar that need to remain. Australasia is one of them for me - maybe a co-share with New Zealand; others include Spa and of course Silverstone (although seeing F1 return to Donnington would be another great)
I'd also like to see a return to Mexico / South Africa
The Australian GP has been losing money for a few years now due to a variety of reasons, mainly a lack of promotion, too many races in SE Asia...Malayasia, Singapore and now China....too much sport at the same time...Commonwealth Games, World Swimming Championships and Cricket...in addition to bernie wanting all races backed by Governments who don't care about losing $10 million each year....China, Turkey, Bahrain, Malayasia, Singapore, Japan...
F1 for the last five years has been totally focused on the sale of TV rights, Paddock Club ticket sales and hotel room deals, ie minimum 4/5 night bookings.
The ticket paying fans are a small fly in the ointment to bernie who just does not understand F1 marketing, the power of the web, the end consumer and why the USA does not want to do business with him.
F1 for the last five years has been totally focused on the sale of TV rights, Paddock Club ticket sales and hotel room deals, ie minimum 4/5 night bookings.
The ticket paying fans are a small fly in the ointment to bernie who just does not understand F1 marketing, the power of the web, the end consumer and why the USA does not want to do business with him.
belleair302 said:
The ticket paying fans are a small fly in the ointment to bernie who just does not understand F1 marketing, the power of the web, the end consumer and why the USA does not want to do business with him.
I wish I could earn a couple of billion doing something I didn't understandRamthorne said:
I wish I could earn a couple of billion doing something I didn't understand
Well thats obviously where you are going wrong. You are trying to do something you understand. Stop that and do something you don't. Prosperity guaranteed. I am sure the bank manager will be happy when you say "Bernie made billions doing it, why can't I?"sniff petrol said:
bigburd said:
....although seeing F1 return to Donnington would be another great...
F1 will never return to Donnington.Unfortunately, Donington lacks the important stuff, such as VIP facilities, a helicopter pad, fancy toilets, a big media centre, and a nearby five-star hotel.
After all, the only good thing about Donington is the racing circuit...and the museum...and the Grand Prix history dating back 70 years...and the lovely surrounding countryside - nothing that seems to matter to these insatiably greedy swine.
I wouldnt want F1 to go back to Donno...they would ruin it by straightening out the craner curves and putting a few uneeded chicanes in. All the grass would be replaced with tarmac and the circuit that has remained unchanged for many years will just be marked out with white lines and curbs. Gayness of the highest order!!
deviant said:
I wouldnt want F1 to go back to Donno...they would ruin it by straightening out the craner curves and putting a few uneeded chicanes in. All the grass would be replaced with tarmac and the circuit that has remained unchanged for many years will just be marked out with white lines and curbs. Gayness of the highest order!!
Good point, best just to let the Renault World Series Weekend show what modern open seater cars can do.sniff petrol said:
bigburd said:
....although seeing F1 return to Donnington would be another great...
F1 will never return to Donnington.I'm quite happy for the British GP to stay where it is at Silverstone (which is already horribly broken and a shadow of its former self) but if it's got to move (and while I'd like to see a British GP stay on the calendar there's a limit to the price, figurative or literal I'd be willing to see paid for it) then please god, let it be to a brand, new purpose built facility rather than desecrating an existing circuit.
--
JG
bigbadbikercats said:
Not in my lifetime I hope. That would be nearly as bad as the vandalism which was proposed for Brands a few years back when there was talk of it going back there...
I hope Palmer never entertains the thought of allowing F1 anywhere near Brands. The "improvements" made for Indycar/DTM/A1GP have ruined the place quite enough thanks..MonkeyHanger said:
bigbadbikercats said:
Not in my lifetime I hope. That would be nearly as bad as the vandalism which was proposed for Brands a few years back when there was talk of it going back there...
I hope Palmer never entertains the thought of allowing F1 anywhere near Brands. The "improvements" made for Indycar/DTM/A1GP have ruined the place quite enough thanks..I never raced there until after the changes which were done in the late '80s - I didn't like the look of the old Graham Hill (or Bottom) bend one little bit[1] and the thought of steaming into Dingle Dell without the chicane on the entry would leave me a little queasy - that's on a relatively low powered single cylinder bike too. I've not been round the GP circuit recently, but the last time I was on the Indy circuit (car track day about 18 months ago) after a break of about 5 years it all looked reasonably familiar, the character of the place certainly didn't seem to have been adversely affected, and (most importantly!) Paddock still produced a whoop of excitement every time round
I'm not against changes to circuits on safety grounds as long as it's done reasonably sensitively - comparing the changes I'm aware of at Brands with (for example) the layouts now used by 'bikes at what used to be Gerrards at Mallory, or the chicane we're saddled wiuth on the way out of Mansfield at Cadwell they don't seem to have done too bad a job - what was proposed when Octagon were looking to bring the GP there went way, way, way beyond that though and would have changed the place out all recognition...
[1] I raced 'bikes, and the thought of being highsided into the paddock wall, which I'm told was a distinct possibility with the original layout wasn't a happy one...
bigburd said:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/64960
Appreciate the novelty of this years night race and other countries are considering them, but this appears purely around $£$£$'s from TV rights - ie FOM get less out of it due to the time of day it is shown (has anyone noted that the races for us during the night or early morning Australia/Japan/Malaysia seem to have less adverts in between) - or is Bernie getting too old for jet-setting around all corners of the world?
However different circuits / countries are always welcomed there a few on the calendar that need to remain. Australasia is one of them for me - maybe a co-share with New Zealand; others include Spa and of course Silverstone (although seeing F1 return to Donnington would be another great)
I'd also like to see a return to Mexico / South Africa
Bernie's excuse is so that European TV viewers don't have to stay up at obscene hours of the night/morning to watch it.Appreciate the novelty of this years night race and other countries are considering them, but this appears purely around $£$£$'s from TV rights - ie FOM get less out of it due to the time of day it is shown (has anyone noted that the races for us during the night or early morning Australia/Japan/Malaysia seem to have less adverts in between) - or is Bernie getting too old for jet-setting around all corners of the world?
However different circuits / countries are always welcomed there a few on the calendar that need to remain. Australasia is one of them for me - maybe a co-share with New Zealand; others include Spa and of course Silverstone (although seeing F1 return to Donnington would be another great)
I'd also like to see a return to Mexico / South Africa
Funnily enough, we still have races at China, Japan, Malaysia, and now Singapore.
No, the real reason as you said, is about the $. Perhaps Bernie should shave a few billions off his annual F1-related income instead.
Jungles said:
bigburd said:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/64960
Appreciate the novelty of this years night race and other countries are considering them, but this appears purely around $£$£$'s from TV rights - ie FOM get less out of it due to the time of day it is shown (has anyone noted that the races for us during the night or early morning Australia/Japan/Malaysia seem to have less adverts in between) - or is Bernie getting too old for jet-setting around all corners of the world?
However different circuits / countries are always welcomed there a few on the calendar that need to remain. Australasia is one of them for me - maybe a co-share with New Zealand; others include Spa and of course Silverstone (although seeing F1 return to Donnington would be another great)
I'd also like to see a return to Mexico / South Africa
Bernie's excuse is so that European TV viewers don't have to stay up at obscene hours of the night/morning to watch it.Appreciate the novelty of this years night race and other countries are considering them, but this appears purely around $£$£$'s from TV rights - ie FOM get less out of it due to the time of day it is shown (has anyone noted that the races for us during the night or early morning Australia/Japan/Malaysia seem to have less adverts in between) - or is Bernie getting too old for jet-setting around all corners of the world?
However different circuits / countries are always welcomed there a few on the calendar that need to remain. Australasia is one of them for me - maybe a co-share with New Zealand; others include Spa and of course Silverstone (although seeing F1 return to Donnington would be another great)
I'd also like to see a return to Mexico / South Africa
Funnily enough, we still have races at China, Japan, Malaysia, and now Singapore.
No, the real reason as you said, is about the $. Perhaps Bernie should shave a few billions off his annual F1-related income instead.
Rather, the tv audience very early Sunday morning is smaller than it is on Sunday afternoon. The bigger the audience, the higher fees he can charge.
I see on TV and in the press down here that Bernie is on his 'take it or leave it' negotiating path for the Australian GP. Basically it runs till 2010 and the only option to him is higher fees & it must be a night race to cater for European TV audiences (read higher ratings higher TV licensing fees). Hes gone this route before when 'negotiating' and I use that term loosely and whilst Ron Walker the Australian GP chairman and Ecclestone are firm friends and Walker says its not leaving our shores or going to another state one never knows exactly what will happen. Ecclestone says he's under 'considerable pressure' from India, Korea & Russia to run an event and says there is very little likelihood the GP will stay in Australia after 2010.
The facts are that since 1996 when Jeff Kennet the then Victorian Premier pulled the event from Adelaide the event has lost $120 million - in 2007 it lost $35 million and the fee for the final 2010 event will be $40 million.
To be honest Victorians/Australians do support major sporting events - having said that it doesnt mean they support F1 - it could very well be a major V8 Supercar race as the crux of the event and they would still get their 300,000 people through the gate (Adelaide have already proven that with the Clipsal 500 V8 Supercar event where they actually pull bigger crowds than the GP for a cost of around $6 million to the South Australian Government).
So I wouldnt be certain of the GP staying and to be honest I really dont care these days whether it does or does not stay - Id prefer to see a Long Beach race reborn or something of that nature.
NOW as of today we see the New South Wales premier (Morris Iemma) saying - if the price is right then we want it from 2010 - and it would be a Homebush Olympic site venue street race there arent any other options in Sydney. Who knows I really couldnt care less Ive seen 7 GPs in Adelaide and they were superb
The facts are that since 1996 when Jeff Kennet the then Victorian Premier pulled the event from Adelaide the event has lost $120 million - in 2007 it lost $35 million and the fee for the final 2010 event will be $40 million.
To be honest Victorians/Australians do support major sporting events - having said that it doesnt mean they support F1 - it could very well be a major V8 Supercar race as the crux of the event and they would still get their 300,000 people through the gate (Adelaide have already proven that with the Clipsal 500 V8 Supercar event where they actually pull bigger crowds than the GP for a cost of around $6 million to the South Australian Government).
So I wouldnt be certain of the GP staying and to be honest I really dont care these days whether it does or does not stay - Id prefer to see a Long Beach race reborn or something of that nature.
NOW as of today we see the New South Wales premier (Morris Iemma) saying - if the price is right then we want it from 2010 - and it would be a Homebush Olympic site venue street race there arent any other options in Sydney. Who knows I really couldnt care less Ive seen 7 GPs in Adelaide and they were superb
Geoff Harris from yesterday in Australia:
Ominous noises from the Victorian premier
Amid the latest controversy about the future of the Australian Grand Prix in Melbourne, Victorian premier John Brumby has given his strongest signal yet that the contract for the race with F1 tsar Bernie Ecclestone won't be renewed beyond 2010.
In a radio interview not picked up by the print media, Brumby made the point that the GP had never made a profit, reiterated that Ecclestone's wish for a night race would not be met, and made clear that there was a limit to how much of his state's taxes would be used to keep the race -- with the distinct impression that limit had just about been reached, especially with a projected loss of more than $40 million this year.
"It has to represent value for money ... well at the moment it costs us $35 million a year and we've got to come up in 2010 and sign a new deal, but if Bernie Ecclestone came along and said, ‘We want $70 million a year or $100 million a year', obviously I'd think twice about that," Brumby said.
"Obviously there has to be a limit the state is willing to pay.
"When the event first started (in Melbourne, in 1996) it did break even, or almost broke even. I should say it's never actually made a profit, but as the licence fees got higher it's been harder to bridge that gap. So it's a value-for-money question."
It all sounds rather ominous and we suspect the Victorian government is looking to use the money it is dropping on the GP as part of a $300 million redevelopment of Melbourne Park, which hosts the Australian Open tennis and many concerts.
Talk of NSW trying to get the GP is, we suspect, little more than Brumby's counterpart in Sydney winding up Victoria.
The GP would swallow NSW's new three-year major events budget of $85 million pretty quickly, and a senior powerbroker in Sydney told us recently that NSW authorities had information that suggested to them that Melbourne's losses are considerably heavier than has been reported.
Ominous noises from the Victorian premier
Amid the latest controversy about the future of the Australian Grand Prix in Melbourne, Victorian premier John Brumby has given his strongest signal yet that the contract for the race with F1 tsar Bernie Ecclestone won't be renewed beyond 2010.
In a radio interview not picked up by the print media, Brumby made the point that the GP had never made a profit, reiterated that Ecclestone's wish for a night race would not be met, and made clear that there was a limit to how much of his state's taxes would be used to keep the race -- with the distinct impression that limit had just about been reached, especially with a projected loss of more than $40 million this year.
"It has to represent value for money ... well at the moment it costs us $35 million a year and we've got to come up in 2010 and sign a new deal, but if Bernie Ecclestone came along and said, ‘We want $70 million a year or $100 million a year', obviously I'd think twice about that," Brumby said.
"Obviously there has to be a limit the state is willing to pay.
"When the event first started (in Melbourne, in 1996) it did break even, or almost broke even. I should say it's never actually made a profit, but as the licence fees got higher it's been harder to bridge that gap. So it's a value-for-money question."
It all sounds rather ominous and we suspect the Victorian government is looking to use the money it is dropping on the GP as part of a $300 million redevelopment of Melbourne Park, which hosts the Australian Open tennis and many concerts.
Talk of NSW trying to get the GP is, we suspect, little more than Brumby's counterpart in Sydney winding up Victoria.
The GP would swallow NSW's new three-year major events budget of $85 million pretty quickly, and a senior powerbroker in Sydney told us recently that NSW authorities had information that suggested to them that Melbourne's losses are considerably heavier than has been reported.
Chaparral 2E said:
Geoff Harris from yesterday in Australia:
Ominous noises from the Victorian premier
Amid the latest controversy about the future of the Australian Grand Prix in Melbourne, Victorian premier John Brumby has given his strongest signal yet that the contract for the race with F1 tsar Bernie Ecclestone won't be renewed beyond 2010.
In a radio interview not picked up by the print media, Brumby made the point that the GP had never made a profit, reiterated that Ecclestone's wish for a night race would not be met, and made clear that there was a limit to how much of his state's taxes would be used to keep the race -- with the distinct impression that limit had just about been reached, especially with a projected loss of more than $40 million this year.
"It has to represent value for money ... well at the moment it costs us $35 million a year and we've got to come up in 2010 and sign a new deal, but if Bernie Ecclestone came along and said, ‘We want $70 million a year or $100 million a year', obviously I'd think twice about that," Brumby said.
"Obviously there has to be a limit the state is willing to pay.
"When the event first started (in Melbourne, in 1996) it did break even, or almost broke even. I should say it's never actually made a profit, but as the licence fees got higher it's been harder to bridge that gap. So it's a value-for-money question."
It all sounds rather ominous and we suspect the Victorian government is looking to use the money it is dropping on the GP as part of a $300 million redevelopment of Melbourne Park, which hosts the Australian Open tennis and many concerts.
Talk of NSW trying to get the GP is, we suspect, little more than Brumby's counterpart in Sydney winding up Victoria.
The GP would swallow NSW's new three-year major events budget of $85 million pretty quickly, and a senior powerbroker in Sydney told us recently that NSW authorities had information that suggested to them that Melbourne's losses are considerably heavier than has been reported.
Interesting that they appear to be confusing out-of-pocket expense with net expense, whilst completely ignoring the boost to the economy both from what the teams and visitors will spend for the event and from the visibility and resulting activity that the event brings to the area during the rest of the year.Ominous noises from the Victorian premier
Amid the latest controversy about the future of the Australian Grand Prix in Melbourne, Victorian premier John Brumby has given his strongest signal yet that the contract for the race with F1 tsar Bernie Ecclestone won't be renewed beyond 2010.
In a radio interview not picked up by the print media, Brumby made the point that the GP had never made a profit, reiterated that Ecclestone's wish for a night race would not be met, and made clear that there was a limit to how much of his state's taxes would be used to keep the race -- with the distinct impression that limit had just about been reached, especially with a projected loss of more than $40 million this year.
"It has to represent value for money ... well at the moment it costs us $35 million a year and we've got to come up in 2010 and sign a new deal, but if Bernie Ecclestone came along and said, ‘We want $70 million a year or $100 million a year', obviously I'd think twice about that," Brumby said.
"Obviously there has to be a limit the state is willing to pay.
"When the event first started (in Melbourne, in 1996) it did break even, or almost broke even. I should say it's never actually made a profit, but as the licence fees got higher it's been harder to bridge that gap. So it's a value-for-money question."
It all sounds rather ominous and we suspect the Victorian government is looking to use the money it is dropping on the GP as part of a $300 million redevelopment of Melbourne Park, which hosts the Australian Open tennis and many concerts.
Talk of NSW trying to get the GP is, we suspect, little more than Brumby's counterpart in Sydney winding up Victoria.
The GP would swallow NSW's new three-year major events budget of $85 million pretty quickly, and a senior powerbroker in Sydney told us recently that NSW authorities had information that suggested to them that Melbourne's losses are considerably heavier than has been reported.
That's not the sort of mistake that Bernie would make.
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