997 CUP CAR.. any use..??
Discussion
The old Cup was severly hampered by small tyres and lack of aero. They only won the FIA European championship by a turn of luck in 06 and a wet race where the Porker has a bit of an advantage that can balance out its loss in the dry.
To answer this Porsche launched the 997 GT3 Cup S two days ago.
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/02/06/porsche-unveils...
I suspect you will see the 997 back at the front again.
The reason the Carrera Cup cars are quicker than the British GT cars is that the Cup cars run on Michelins and British GT cars run on Avons.
To answer this Porsche launched the 997 GT3 Cup S two days ago.
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/02/06/porsche-unveils...
I suspect you will see the 997 back at the front again.
The reason the Carrera Cup cars are quicker than the British GT cars is that the Cup cars run on Michelins and British GT cars run on Avons.
Edited by Simon Mason on Friday 8th February 10:07
The reason for the speed differential is the Michelin tyres are designed around the car and the car and tyres were developed together. The Avons are a control tyre which are not designed for ultimate performance, if they did this they would also have to develop every tyre to that standard and that would be incredibly difficult to maintain the balance. The Michelins are also designed for a 40 minute race and not a 1 hour or longer race when they are used in a 1 hour race they drop off in performance hugely in the last part of the race. Hopefully the new Porsche will address the performance problem the car has in GT3, the amount of contact patch the 911 has compared to many of the other cars is pitiful.
TonyToniTone said:
In GT races they also have a lot more freedom setting up the car thats not allowed in cup championships.. suspension, wing settings, gears ratios, clearance etc.. so it has to be down to the tyres as dino said..
No they don't have any more adjustment in GT. The Cup is the same because its all as homolgated and the car for FIA spec GT3 was until now just a straightforward Cup. All you can do is play with geo and ride hights to make any real difference but of course that is often held back by a team mate who needs to get upto speed in GT. The only significant difference is the one eccoed already. Even giving the Cup bigger tyres wont make it more competitive but it will make it quicker, the aero is what was needed to make a race winner. The new car has that at last.
Simon Mason said:
TonyToniTone said:
In GT races they also have a lot more freedom setting up the car thats not allowed in cup championships.. suspension, wing settings, gears ratios, clearance etc.. so it has to be down to the tyres as dino said..
No they don't have any more adjustment in GT. The Cup is the same because its all as homolgated and the car for FIA spec GT3 was until now just a straightforward Cup. All you can do is play with geo and ride hights to make any real difference but of course that is often held back by a team mate who needs to get upto speed in GT. The only significant difference is the one eccoed already. Even giving the Cup bigger tyres wont make it more competitive but it will make it quicker, the aero is what was needed to make a race winner. The new car has that at last.
TonyToniTone said:
Simon Mason said:
TonyToniTone said:
In GT races they also have a lot more freedom setting up the car thats not allowed in cup championships.. suspension, wing settings, gears ratios, clearance etc.. so it has to be down to the tyres as dino said..
No they don't have any more adjustment in GT. The Cup is the same because its all as homolgated and the car for FIA spec GT3 was until now just a straightforward Cup. All you can do is play with geo and ride hights to make any real difference but of course that is often held back by a team mate who needs to get upto speed in GT. The only significant difference is the one eccoed already. Even giving the Cup bigger tyres wont make it more competitive but it will make it quicker, the aero is what was needed to make a race winner. The new car has that at last.
I was goin to bring the Cayenne, I'm working on a new strategy that will see me cutting the corners across the grass and rejoining with 2.5tonnes from the side should see the opposition move ........sideways at least !
The advantage of the 997 cup at Mondello should be in ease and speed of changing gear.
The advantage of the 997 cup at Mondello should be in ease and speed of changing gear.
Simon Mason said:
To answer this Porsche launched the 997 GT3 Cup S two days ago.
...
I suspect you will see the 997 back at the front again.
Maybe. The 997's seem to be out-gunned, and while the Cup S is clearly better - is it really a big enough step to get on par with the 430's? I hope so, but I'm not convinced....
I suspect you will see the 997 back at the front again.
I still don't understand.... the GT3 class cars are equalised, so why was the Porsche off the pace in the first place? I always thought that the Porsche was the benchmark for the GT3 class, against which the other cars would be equalised. What is the benchmark for these equalisation tests? - a laptime? A different car? An average time?
Joe911 said:
Simon Mason said:
To answer this Porsche launched the 997 GT3 Cup S two days ago.
...
I suspect you will see the 997 back at the front again.
Maybe. The 997's seem to be out-gunned, and while the Cup S is clearly better - is it really a big enough step to get on par with the 430's? I hope so, but I'm not convinced....
I suspect you will see the 997 back at the front again.
Watch this space
We dont check in here that often however glad I did now I have seen this post.
On talking to the few that run Cup Cars on the Avons the problem seems to be in majority in the tyre department. The fronts and rears heat up and totally different rates on as such when the rear are optimum the fronts are no and vica versa.
There is so much potential left in the 997 and it is not optimised. I know that with GT3 regs one is stuck with what can be done however on our own private tests both in the wind tunnel and on track we have found areas where significant gains can be made.
At Estoril last week part of our team attended with a standard car then made changes and conducted half a day intensive testing (set up and pressure changes etc. Also note we ran Michelins for the first two sessions then changed to Dunlops).
Later in the day the standard suspension was removed and fitted our own developed kits (when we looked at the market to develop a kit we looked at all the suspension manufacturers on offer and after a process made our decision who to go wih to develop a kit, the chioice was clear). However we were not expecting this... All seriousness the car went close to 3S quicker on a suspension change, unbelieveable. Driver feedback was more controlable, quicker turn in and entry speed and more balance under braking. The development continues...
On talking to the few that run Cup Cars on the Avons the problem seems to be in majority in the tyre department. The fronts and rears heat up and totally different rates on as such when the rear are optimum the fronts are no and vica versa.
There is so much potential left in the 997 and it is not optimised. I know that with GT3 regs one is stuck with what can be done however on our own private tests both in the wind tunnel and on track we have found areas where significant gains can be made.
At Estoril last week part of our team attended with a standard car then made changes and conducted half a day intensive testing (set up and pressure changes etc. Also note we ran Michelins for the first two sessions then changed to Dunlops).
Later in the day the standard suspension was removed and fitted our own developed kits (when we looked at the market to develop a kit we looked at all the suspension manufacturers on offer and after a process made our decision who to go wih to develop a kit, the chioice was clear). However we were not expecting this... All seriousness the car went close to 3S quicker on a suspension change, unbelieveable. Driver feedback was more controlable, quicker turn in and entry speed and more balance under braking. The development continues...
Lol Simon, just a good team and drivers ... We won in the Dry at Dijon. I will accept that the car was off the pace compared to the rest though. Luck had a part to play in the end, but we had three 2nd's and three 1st's out of 10 races, so it was lucky that we won the championship.
In regards to setup, Simon is right, we can only do the same as what the car was homologated for, which was Supercup and Carrera cup. So, ride height, roll bar and camber are the main ones. We are not allowed 4 way dampers ect...
The Cup S will be better, I doubt it will be as fast as it should though. You almost need the RSR in GT3 to win.
We won in the Dry at Dijon. I will accept that the car was off the pace compared to the rest though. Luck had a part to play in the end, but we had three 2nd's and three 1st's out of 10 races, so it was lucky that we won the championship.In regards to setup, Simon is right, we can only do the same as what the car was homologated for, which was Supercup and Carrera cup. So, ride height, roll bar and camber are the main ones. We are not allowed 4 way dampers ect...
The Cup S will be better, I doubt it will be as fast as it should though. You almost need the RSR in GT3 to win.
Edited by Sean Edwards on Monday 18th February 22:56
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