Time to stop the anthems?
Discussion
I've been a keen follower of F1 since 1966 - a bit of an F1 nerd in point of fact. Up until last year I had only missed one GP that was televised live or I was there and watched it. In all that time I've never been aware of the current undercurrent of racism in our sport. Even the rabid Italian Ferrari fans support the team and not their nationals. I remember Monza when an Italian driver, leading the field in front of a Ferrari, retired to cheers from the partisan crowd.
Most of the fans I've talked to pay little attention to nationality. I've been in a predominantly British group at Silverstone when the majority were Senna supporters. There was a large sub-group who favoured some French chap with a big nose - can't remember his name, but then he did little that was memorable. I support a team rather than particular drivers, and am a fan of anyone who drives excitingly.
So why, in a sport where teams and driver are not divided on nationality, do they play anthems for the podium celebrations? Even for the car's supposed nationality. If the name McLaren International means anything, it means that it is not restricted to one country. It has a German engine, German majority shareholders, is built in this country so it claims British nationality. Exactly different to Benetton, which became Italian overnight and is now French despite being built in exotic Enstone.
Does it matter which country they reckon they come from? United colours of Benetton which was at one time solely Italian. All rather silly.
Adn the same goes for the drivers although they do not seem to change nationality quite so much. Is Hamilton now Swiss? Why is the Monaco Anthem (have they got one?) not played all the time?
Perhaps if such a big play is not made of something so irrelevant as nationality to our sport the racist gibes that were such an insult to GP racing would not have occurred.
Most of the fans I've talked to pay little attention to nationality. I've been in a predominantly British group at Silverstone when the majority were Senna supporters. There was a large sub-group who favoured some French chap with a big nose - can't remember his name, but then he did little that was memorable. I support a team rather than particular drivers, and am a fan of anyone who drives excitingly.
So why, in a sport where teams and driver are not divided on nationality, do they play anthems for the podium celebrations? Even for the car's supposed nationality. If the name McLaren International means anything, it means that it is not restricted to one country. It has a German engine, German majority shareholders, is built in this country so it claims British nationality. Exactly different to Benetton, which became Italian overnight and is now French despite being built in exotic Enstone.
Does it matter which country they reckon they come from? United colours of Benetton which was at one time solely Italian. All rather silly.
Adn the same goes for the drivers although they do not seem to change nationality quite so much. Is Hamilton now Swiss? Why is the Monaco Anthem (have they got one?) not played all the time?
Perhaps if such a big play is not made of something so irrelevant as nationality to our sport the racist gibes that were such an insult to GP racing would not have occurred.
Tradition.
Prior to the 1970s, Formula 1 was very much a "nationalistic" sport - symbolised by the running of the cars in their national colours.
The advent of commercialism has reduced that nationalistic element - but the removal of national anthems would probably result in sponsors getting their jingles played whilst the winner sprayed the champagne. I know what I'd prefer.
Prior to the 1970s, Formula 1 was very much a "nationalistic" sport - symbolised by the running of the cars in their national colours.
The advent of commercialism has reduced that nationalistic element - but the removal of national anthems would probably result in sponsors getting their jingles played whilst the winner sprayed the champagne. I know what I'd prefer.
I like the national anthem thing.
For the record the engine in the back of the Merc is about as German as a bowler hat. It's designed and made in England by a McLaren division. Even before they bought Illmor the motors were built in the UK.
Renault motors are built in France too.
For the record the engine in the back of the Merc is about as German as a bowler hat. It's designed and made in England by a McLaren division. Even before they bought Illmor the motors were built in the UK.
Renault motors are built in France too.
Edited by MrKipling43 on Friday 29th February 10:02
Why shouldn't there be an element of national pride in sport? I often find it strange that we're more than happy to knock our country's drivers yet every other year we're all expected (without exception) to head to our nearest boozer and cheer on 'Eng-er-land' in some soccer tournament, regardless of whether we have an interest in it or not.
Keep the anthems, racism and national pride in sport do not go hand-in-hand - the fact that you can be any colour, race or religion and come from pretty much any country proves the folly in this.
Keep the anthems, racism and national pride in sport do not go hand-in-hand - the fact that you can be any colour, race or religion and come from pretty much any country proves the folly in this.
MrKipling43 said:
I like the national anthem thing.
For the record the engine in the back of the Merc is about as German as a bowler hat. It's designed and made in England by a McLaren division. Even before they bought Illmor the motors were built in the UK.
Renault motors are built in France too.
Living not too far from Illmor, it has been a noticeable feature that every Illmor/Merc failure has been down to "interference from Stuttgart", according to the Illmor workforce. On that basis I am not sure saying the design is British is 100%.For the record the engine in the back of the Merc is about as German as a bowler hat. It's designed and made in England by a McLaren division. Even before they bought Illmor the motors were built in the UK.
Renault motors are built in France too.
Edited by MrKipling43 on Friday 29th February 10:02
Illmor now appears to be a wholly owned subsiduary of Mercedes Benz.
Having said that I haven't made a check on the shareholdings, but there is a local rumour that Mario has sold up.
Shall we just agree that the Merc engine is about as British as the Royal Family?
air cooled said:
MrKipling43 said:
I like the national anthem thing.
For the record the engine in the back of the Merc is about as German as a bowler hat. It's designed and made in England by a McLaren division. Even before they bought Illmor the motors were built in the UK.
Renault motors are built in France too.
Living not too far from Illmor, it has been a noticeable feature that every Illmor/Merc failure has been down to "interference from Stuttgart", according to the Illmor workforce. On that basis I am not sure saying the design is British is 100%.For the record the engine in the back of the Merc is about as German as a bowler hat. It's designed and made in England by a McLaren division. Even before they bought Illmor the motors were built in the UK.
Renault motors are built in France too.
Edited by MrKipling43 on Friday 29th February 10:02
Illmor now appears to be a wholly owned subsiduary of Mercedes Benz.
Having said that I haven't made a check on the shareholdings, but there is a local rumour that Mario has sold up.
Shall we just agree that the Merc engine is about as British as the Royal Family?
As far as I know the the engines they produce/produced are completely British in design and construction - they just slap a Mercedes badge on the cam covers. Just like the Mecachrome and Supertec motors Williams ran in the 90s, which were Renault V10s with a different logo.
Just like all Brabus engines are designed, developed and rebuilt in the UK.
When it comes to low-volume, ultra-high-tech engineering - we still rule! at least we've got one thing left
Eric Mc said:
Tradition.
Prior to the 1970s, Formula 1 was very much a "nationalistic" sport - symbolised by the running of the cars in their national colours.
Silver Arrows - McLaren/MercedesPrior to the 1970s, Formula 1 was very much a "nationalistic" sport - symbolised by the running of the cars in their national colours.
White was the original colour for Germany and has been BMWs traditional colours
White (base colour) and red has been Japan's traditional colours - Honda, Toyota & Super Aguri.
Personally I like the tradition and history.
Racists are idiots.
Some places you'll get partisan support, but I would agree with Martin Brundle when he mentioned that British fans are best in the world - they give credit where credits' due.
air cooled said:
Shall we just agree that the Merc engine is about as British as the Royal Family?
But I too would mourn the day when they stop playing the anthems.
I quite enjoy some of these rumpety tump colonial anthems, the make our wonderful tune sound like Frederic Chopin's Marche funèbre in C minor, Op. 72 No. 2. (for those that like to be pedantic).
I always said that if I ever win anything, I wish to be known as English so they can play a spot of Elgar (Land of Hope & Glory).
Just as a Scot deserves to stand to the tune of Scotland the Brave, and a Cornish man salute "Blackbird" by the Wurzels.
Rob.
thunderbelmont said:
air cooled said:
Shall we just agree that the Merc engine is about as British as the Royal Family?
But I too would mourn the day when they stop playing the anthems.
I quite enjoy some of these rumpety tump colonial anthems, the make our wonderful tune sound like Frederic Chopin's Marche funèbre in C minor, Op. 72 No. 2. (for those that like to be pedantic).
I always said that if I ever win anything, I wish to be known as English so they can play a spot of Elgar (Land of Hope & Glory).
Just as a Scot deserves to stand to the tune of Scotland the Brave, and a Cornish man salute "Blackbird" by the Wurzels.
Rob.
National anthems are a bit like singing hymns in church...
everyone still does it but they don't really know why?
Typical church service involves listening to a boring service and singing some boring hyms that don't relate to modern life...
we plough the fields? etc
Everyone comes out of church feeling good about themselves and the next day at sainsbury's they are arguing about a parking space ffs..
Its bull...
Church should be about action and response.
If everyone who went to church could say .. this week I helped a lady with her shopping or I did my mothers hedge or I gave some money to a friend in need and don't expect it returned then I would 'believe' in Christianity.
However if I was to ask my local churchgoers what they had done this week I would expect this kind of response..
I told my daughter not to play with someone else
I reported my neighbours hedge to the council
I deliberately drove akwardly to spitefully slow down another driver
I promised my mum I would visit this month
I avoided as many people as I could
I continued to develop my nose in the air attitude.
National Anthems..
what do our countries do do deserve our support.
In motor racing you can be assured that the country didn't contribute in any way to the success..
bull.
everyone still does it but they don't really know why?
Typical church service involves listening to a boring service and singing some boring hyms that don't relate to modern life...
we plough the fields? etc
Everyone comes out of church feeling good about themselves and the next day at sainsbury's they are arguing about a parking space ffs..
Its bull...
Church should be about action and response.
If everyone who went to church could say .. this week I helped a lady with her shopping or I did my mothers hedge or I gave some money to a friend in need and don't expect it returned then I would 'believe' in Christianity.
However if I was to ask my local churchgoers what they had done this week I would expect this kind of response..
I told my daughter not to play with someone else
I reported my neighbours hedge to the council
I deliberately drove akwardly to spitefully slow down another driver
I promised my mum I would visit this month
I avoided as many people as I could
I continued to develop my nose in the air attitude.
National Anthems..
what do our countries do do deserve our support.
In motor racing you can be assured that the country didn't contribute in any way to the success..
bull.
Eric Mc said:
YOU are your country. It's not some nebulous entity run by someone else.
Reclaim your country AND your anthem for yourself.
When you can't fly your own flag I disagree.Reclaim your country AND your anthem for yourself.
Your 'country' is where you are physically born and where you pay your taxes.
Its not neccessarily your spiritual home.
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