Pitting under the safety car - or rather not...
Discussion
When will this stupid rule be amended or withdrawn?
Killed the race for a couple of the drivers through no fault of their own.
Surely, if it can be proved that a car has less than, say, two laps of fuel that they should be able to pit as per normal and then join the rear of the pack rather than be given a 10 second stop and go during race conditions.
Killed the race for a couple of the drivers through no fault of their own.
Surely, if it can be proved that a car has less than, say, two laps of fuel that they should be able to pit as per normal and then join the rear of the pack rather than be given a 10 second stop and go during race conditions.
Asterix said:
When will this stupid rule be amended or withdrawn?
Killed the race for a couple of the drivers through no fault of their own.
Surely, if it can be proved that a car has less than, say, two laps of fuel that they should be able to pit as per normal and then join the rear of the pack rather than be given a 10 second stop and go during race conditions.
that's not really the point is it?Killed the race for a couple of the drivers through no fault of their own.
Surely, if it can be proved that a car has less than, say, two laps of fuel that they should be able to pit as per normal and then join the rear of the pack rather than be given a 10 second stop and go during race conditions.
it's their choice to run the tanks that low (for performance), and alowing people to fuel inder SC would mean that *everybody* would dive the the pit lane if the SC came out...
the rule is there for a good reason, only issue I can see is of the SC is out for more than 5-6 laps...
Scuffers said:
Asterix said:
When will this stupid rule be amended or withdrawn?
Killed the race for a couple of the drivers through no fault of their own.
Surely, if it can be proved that a car has less than, say, two laps of fuel that they should be able to pit as per normal and then join the rear of the pack rather than be given a 10 second stop and go during race conditions.
that's not really the point is it?Killed the race for a couple of the drivers through no fault of their own.
Surely, if it can be proved that a car has less than, say, two laps of fuel that they should be able to pit as per normal and then join the rear of the pack rather than be given a 10 second stop and go during race conditions.
it's their choice to run the tanks that low (for performance), and alowing people to fuel inder SC would mean that *everybody* would dive the the pit lane if the SC came out...
the rule is there for a good reason, only issue I can see is of the SC is out for more than 5-6 laps...
Scuffers said:
Asterix said:
When will this stupid rule be amended or withdrawn?
Killed the race for a couple of the drivers through no fault of their own.
Surely, if it can be proved that a car has less than, say, two laps of fuel that they should be able to pit as per normal and then join the rear of the pack rather than be given a 10 second stop and go during race conditions.
that's not really the point is it?Killed the race for a couple of the drivers through no fault of their own.
Surely, if it can be proved that a car has less than, say, two laps of fuel that they should be able to pit as per normal and then join the rear of the pack rather than be given a 10 second stop and go during race conditions.
it's their choice to run the tanks that low (for performance), and alowing people to fuel inder SC would mean that *everybody* would dive the the pit lane if the SC came out...
the rule is there for a good reason, only issue I can see is of the SC is out for more than 5-6 laps...
it wasn't his fault heikki crashed when he was due to pit.
the rule should be changed so that if cars are genuinely running out, then they can pit. but the hard part with that is some people will 'say' they need to pit when they really dont.
Asterix said:
Scuffers said:
Asterix said:
When will this stupid rule be amended or withdrawn?
Killed the race for a couple of the drivers through no fault of their own.
Surely, if it can be proved that a car has less than, say, two laps of fuel that they should be able to pit as per normal and then join the rear of the pack rather than be given a 10 second stop and go during race conditions.
that's not really the point is it?Killed the race for a couple of the drivers through no fault of their own.
Surely, if it can be proved that a car has less than, say, two laps of fuel that they should be able to pit as per normal and then join the rear of the pack rather than be given a 10 second stop and go during race conditions.
it's their choice to run the tanks that low (for performance), and alowing people to fuel inder SC would mean that *everybody* would dive the the pit lane if the SC came out...
the rule is there for a good reason, only issue I can see is of the SC is out for more than 5-6 laps...
This is why thy should just fuel the cars at the start of the race to make it to the end and be done with refuelling altogether!
The different rules you then have to integrate make a farce of the racing. Full tanks, lighter cars at the end, might even make the racing better in the closing laps.
The different rules you then have to integrate make a farce of the racing. Full tanks, lighter cars at the end, might even make the racing better in the closing laps.
One way to stop it and to cut speed would be to say no more refuelling. They know how much fuel an F1 car currently uses so for the sake of the eco-cronies get them all to run the race with a full fuel load but use significantly smaller fuel tank (than it would be to hold all the fuel they would use this year). Some engine development would be needed but they would be more efficient and probably not produce the same power increases we currently get.
F355GTS said:
Can't understand why the Teams can't give the info to the FIA before the race for when they want to stop then if it happens that a SC period is happening on that specific lap they don't penalise assuming the stop lap matches the data given prior to the race.
I completely agree, it is that simple and should be implemented immediately. There is no need to wait until next year.rdjohn said:
F355GTS said:
Can't understand why the Teams can't give the info to the FIA before the race for when they want to stop then if it happens that a SC period is happening on that specific lap they don't penalise assuming the stop lap matches the data given prior to the race.
I completely agree, it is that simple and should be implemented immediately. There is no need to wait until next year.What if its wet and fuel use is lower. What about the 2nd stops, and if you suddenly need to short fuel at the first stop to avoid losing a place in the pitlane. Theres so many variables here that havnt been thought about I could list a lot more.
As to people saying they should drive with 5 laps buffer all the time, youd come nowhere. You would be starting several grid slots back in the first place nevermind carrying that penalty through the whole race.
rdjohn said:
F355GTS said:
Can't understand why the Teams can't give the info to the FIA before the race for when they want to stop then if it happens that a SC period is happening on that specific lap they don't penalise assuming the stop lap matches the data given prior to the race.
I completely agree, it is that simple and should be implemented immediately. There is no need to wait until next year.PulsatingStar said:
rdjohn said:
F355GTS said:
Can't understand why the Teams can't give the info to the FIA before the race for when they want to stop then if it happens that a SC period is happening on that specific lap they don't penalise assuming the stop lap matches the data given prior to the race.
I completely agree, it is that simple and should be implemented immediately. There is no need to wait until next year.What if its wet and fuel use is lower. What about the 2nd stops, and if you suddenly need to short fuel at the first stop to avoid losing a place in the pitlane. Theres so many variables here that havnt been thought about I could list a lot more.
As to people saying they should drive with 5 laps buffer all the time, youd come nowhere. You would be starting several grid slots back in the first place nevermind carrying that penalty through the whole race.
There is so much dependent upon fuel use during a race that to say "we will pit on lap 20 and 40" is nigh on impossible. Weather, safety cars, periods behind other cars (reducing drag) it can all add up to a lap or two's difference in fuel and that is the difference between SC and no SC.
The rule itself is fundamentally flawed, although it is there for a reason.
I agree that I think refuelling should be banned; it will give much more opportunity for racing.
NASCAR uses the rule "pit while pit lane is closed and restart at the tail end of the longest line" (there are two lines at restarts, one for lead lap cars, one for lapped cars).
IRL allows cars low on fuel to pit while pit lane is closed but all they can do is take on a small amount of fuel to keep running, they have to do their full pitstop with everyone else.
Either could be considered for F1 and would be less harsh than the current arrangement.
IRL allows cars low on fuel to pit while pit lane is closed but all they can do is take on a small amount of fuel to keep running, they have to do their full pitstop with everyone else.
Either could be considered for F1 and would be less harsh than the current arrangement.
onomatopoeia said:
IRL allows cars low on fuel to pit while pit lane is closed but all they can do is take on a small amount of fuel to keep running, they have to do their full pitstop with everyone else.
That's not a massive help really; in yesterday's example it was 19 seconds of pit lane plus a pitstop.So, for the "splash and dash" you would use 19 seconds plus say 3 seconds of fuel = 21 seconds.
The current F1 penalty of 10 seconds would mean 29 seconds of times lost; hardly decreasing the penalty for running low.
F355GTS said:
Can't understand why the Teams can't give the info to the FIA before the race for when they want to stop then if it happens that a SC period is happening on that specific lap they don't penalise assuming the stop lap matches the data given prior to the race.
But then Ferrari would have access to all the teams race strategies...As I understand it the reason for the pit lane being closed is to stop the cars charging at racing speed past an accident to get to the pits as quick as possible. I don't see why they can't allow the pit lane to remain open on the proviso that when the safety car is out, cars must drive with utmost caution and no overtaking on their way to the pit. If they made the penalty for driving like an idiot under a saftey car a black flag, then teams would be stupid to transgress.
PulsatingStar said:
130R said:
What if they took the 10 second penalty directly after they refuel (in the same pit stop)? That would more than cut the penalty in half.
They arnt allowed. The penalties have to be taken under racing conditions and with no work being done to the car.tank slapper said:
As I understand it the reason for the pit lane being closed is to stop the cars charging at racing speed past an accident to get to the pits as quick as possible. I don't see why they can't allow the pit lane to remain open on the proviso that when the safety car is out, cars must drive with utmost caution and no overtaking on their way to the pit. If they made the penalty for driving like an idiot under a saftey car a black flag, then teams would be stupid to transgress.
yep, agreed, maybe double waved yellows around the incident. as it stands, the sc pitlane timing thing is a lottery.people used to dive into the pits during a safety car - was that really so bad? i mean, did anything nasty actually happen to change the rules?
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