The six-wheeler Tyrell... was it any good?

[glazbagun]

Just found this while browsing Jackie Stewart vids:

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Jackie-Stewart-...

Since it was banned, I'm guessing it was either perceived, or proved an unfair advantage of some sort and others/Ferrari whined about it till it got the chop. Was it actually a good idea in an unrestricted sense? Or was it, rather, a clever interpretation of the rules which allowed a performance advantage over other cars confined by the same rules?

[LukeBird]

Yes it was, hence the banning
Old man Enzo couldn't take a joke, obviously

[Teppic]

Williams also tried a six-wheeler, but in their case there were four driven wheels at the back, and two at the front. It was the Williams that led to six-wheelers being banned, as the FIA/FISA noticed that it had a massive performance advantage over its four-wheeled car when it shattered a lap record during testing.





Ferrari also tried a six-wheeler, but with four wheels on the same axle.

Edited by Teppic on Saturday 31st May 16:13

[16VJay]

The first year for the P34 was 1976, best result was a 1-2 in Sweden and Tyrrell got third in the constructor's that year. Next year the cars had revised bodywork and were sponsored by First National instead of Elf, but their best result was a second in Canada.

I wasn't aware the P34 was banned, Goodyear chose to concentrate on standard tyre sizes in their second season, which obvioulsy killed it off.

[Frik]

As I understand it, the big advantage was a much lower frontal area, aerodynamically, for the same amount of front end grip.

Wasn't there some issue with being able to get tyres for it too?

ETA: Beaten to it.

Edited by Frik on Saturday 31st May 00:41

[deevlash]

Teppic said:

Williams also tried a six-wheeler, but in their case there were four driven wheels at the back, and two at the front.

4 wheels at the back is a much better idea you could put wets on the foremost rears and slicks on the back 2 when it was raining and get loads of power down.

[Teppic]

deevlash said:

Teppic said:

Williams also tried a six-wheeler, but in their case there were four driven wheels at the back, and two at the front.

4 wheels at the back is a much better idea you could put wets on the foremost rears and slicks on the back 2 when it was raining and get loads of power down.

Williams did exactly that in testing (although not in that picture).

Edited by Teppic on Saturday 31st May 00:52

[dickkark]

I`m a bit of a P34 i`m afraid,
The p34 wasn`t banned it was dropped in 1978,by Tyrell them selves.
they blamed Goodyears lack of developement in the special tyres needed,coupled with the weight of the extra front suspension as the reason.
The idea of the small wheels was to reduce the frontal area thats why they had the 10" wheels on the front,but two sets to maintain the correct grip.
There is P34 chassis no 6 about still racing in an FIA historic series.
Six wheel cars were banned in 1993 from formula racing to stop manufacturers from building cars with four wheel drive by means of two rear axles,or twin rear wheels,ala Ferrari.

[Tyre Smoke]

Didn't the Tyrell also have better 'turn in' for the likes of Monaco, etc?

[deevlash]

Teppic said:

deevlash said:

Teppic said:

Williams also tried a six-wheeler, but in their case there were four driven wheels at the back, and two at the front.

4 wheels at the back is a much better idea you could put wets on the foremost rears and slicks on the back 2 when it was raining and get loads of power down.

Williams did exactly that in testing (although not in that picture).

Edited by Teppic on Saturday 31st May 00:52

yup, there was a really good article in autosport where they asked williams to design an f1 car without limits and they used this design again. It would have had full length skirts for ground effects, 6 wheels, 4 at the rear no real wings to speak of as the ground effect would have kept it sucked down enough. It looked crap I have to say.

[Eric Mc]

The Williams 6 wheler was built with a different design concept in mind compared to the Tyrrell. As has been said, the Tyrrell's 6 front wheels allowed a more efficient use of front end earodynamics. The Williams 6 wheeler was an attempt to better harness the airflow moving through the sidepods which, in the years 1979 to 1982, were the major source of sownforce on F1 cars.
March also built a 6 wheeler similar to the Williams one.

[andy97]

Eric Mc said:

March also built a 6 wheeler similar to the Williams one.

Which Roy lane Hillclimbed for a short while. I think it win a couple of British Hillclimb rounds in the wet but in the dry kept breaking gearboxes. It was converted back to a normal 4 wheel March after that.

[freedman]

The March car ran in hillclimbing (Roy Lane) succesfully for a number of years and Jonathan Palmer held the hill record at Goodwood in the Williams until Heidfeld? broke it a couple of years ago http://www.geocities.com/simontmallett/240march1.h...

Edited by freedman on Saturday 31st May 08:45

[nre]

dickkark said:

I`m a bit of a P34 i`m afraid,
The p34 wasn`t banned it was dropped in 1978,by Tyrell them selves.
they blamed Goodyears lack of developement in the special tyres needed,coupled with the weight of the extra front suspension as the reason.
The idea of the small wheels was to reduce the frontal area thats why they had the 10" wheels on the front,but two sets to maintain the correct grip.
There is P34 chassis no 6 about still racing in an FIA historic series.
Six wheel cars were banned in 1993 from formula racing to stop manufacturers from building cars with four wheel drive by means of two rear axles,or twin rear wheels,ala Ferrari.

pic from last years hscc superprix at brands

Edited by nre on Saturday 31st May 13:17

[FourWheelDrift]

There was also a six wheeled Formula 3 project.

[aquilamotorsport]

of course ferraris idea wasnt exactly new!....ferrari using other peopels ideas...never i hear you say! http://www.speedace.info/automotive_directory/car_... mind same as the wheel disks...they were on the toms toyota f3 cars way back in the early 90s

[andy97]

FourWheelDrift said:

There was also a six wheeled Formula 3 project.

Yep, very amusing!

[JonRB]

So an 8-wheel car could combine the advantages of both - in both cases the front pair on wets to clear the water for the slicks on the rear pair.

They could nickname it "the caterpillar" - it would look like one.

[FourWheelDrift]

Seriously this time, an eight wheeled kart, with Jody Scheckter trying it out for size.

[sniff petrol]

deevlash said:

yup, there was a really good article in autosport where they asked williams to design an f1 car without limits and they used this design again. It would have had full length skirts for ground effects, 6 wheels, 4 at the rear no real wings to speak of as the ground effect would have kept it sucked down enough. It looked crap I have to say.

F1 Racing magazine about 4 years ago IIRC