Heads up channel 5 Friday 20 june
Discussion
This Friday coming there's a documentary about Brits who made the modern world, this one is all about britains contribution to motorsport....
Brits Who Made The Modern World (Documentary)
Time - 19:30 - 20:00 (30 minutes long)
When - Friday 20th June on five
Formula One. Series 1, episode 1.
Documentary series looking at the untold stories of British scientists and engineers who developed some of the modern world's most incredible technology. Peter Snow finds out how Britain's successful Formula One industry has its origins in a remarkable amateur racing club and a visionary group of motor enthusiasts. He meets the surviving members of the Lotus Engineering team whose revolutionary car, the Lotus 25, changed the sport forever.
(New Series, Followed By Five News Update, Subtitles)
Brits Who Made The Modern World (Documentary)
Time - 19:30 - 20:00 (30 minutes long)
When - Friday 20th June on five
Formula One. Series 1, episode 1.
Documentary series looking at the untold stories of British scientists and engineers who developed some of the modern world's most incredible technology. Peter Snow finds out how Britain's successful Formula One industry has its origins in a remarkable amateur racing club and a visionary group of motor enthusiasts. He meets the surviving members of the Lotus Engineering team whose revolutionary car, the Lotus 25, changed the sport forever.
(New Series, Followed By Five News Update, Subtitles)
Even though I'm a Colin Chapman and Lotus fan, I think they've picked the wrong "revolutionary" car.
For me the cars that changed everything were the mid-engined Cooper Formula 2 and Formula 1 cars of the late 1950s. Within 4 years EVERYONE had switched to putting the engine behind the driver.
It took quite a while for teams to switch over to monocoque styles of construction even after the success of the Lotus 25/33 and even then, not everyone used the Lotus methods of assembling the tub.
It was Coopers who really put British F1 cars on the map and in many ways kick started the British F1 industry. For a while, the "A3 Corridor" was the hub of British F1 motorpsort.
However, the 25/33 is probably one of the lovliest and purist F1 cars ever and I'll definitely be watching the programme.
Regarding aircraft, the Harrier will be featured. I can't really see how the Harrier is revolutionary in that not one of the later generations of vertical take off aircarft have used the Harrier's system for achieving hovering flight (except later versions of the Harrier, of course).
Even though the Harrier is a remarhable plane and very good at what it does, for a design to be revolutionary surely it must have changed the way successive designers have approached the same technical issues. In that case, the Harrier can't be considered revolutionary.
Also to be covered is the British satellite launcher programme - which was axed by the government after one successful flight.
For me the cars that changed everything were the mid-engined Cooper Formula 2 and Formula 1 cars of the late 1950s. Within 4 years EVERYONE had switched to putting the engine behind the driver.
It took quite a while for teams to switch over to monocoque styles of construction even after the success of the Lotus 25/33 and even then, not everyone used the Lotus methods of assembling the tub.
It was Coopers who really put British F1 cars on the map and in many ways kick started the British F1 industry. For a while, the "A3 Corridor" was the hub of British F1 motorpsort.
However, the 25/33 is probably one of the lovliest and purist F1 cars ever and I'll definitely be watching the programme.
Regarding aircraft, the Harrier will be featured. I can't really see how the Harrier is revolutionary in that not one of the later generations of vertical take off aircarft have used the Harrier's system for achieving hovering flight (except later versions of the Harrier, of course).
Even though the Harrier is a remarhable plane and very good at what it does, for a design to be revolutionary surely it must have changed the way successive designers have approached the same technical issues. In that case, the Harrier can't be considered revolutionary.
Also to be covered is the British satellite launcher programme - which was axed by the government after one successful flight.
Edited by Eric Mc on Tuesday 17th June 08:36
The rear-engined revolution, led by (but not started by Cooper) actually goes all the way back to 1946, Eric. The first production Cooper was in 1948 (in itself the 'birth' of the British motor racing industry), and Harry Schell ran the first rear-engined car in a Grand Prix at Monaco 1950. So the rear-engined revolution did actually take a very long time, despite the little Coopers (and others like the Moss-Kieft) consistently showing the way - when a 500cc car with a top speed of barely 100mph outqualifies 2.5 litre cars around the Nurburgring, that's a pretty big clue that something special is happening.
The problem with telling the Cooper story is that sadly pretty much everyone who was there is long dead. Taking a later car and a different angle, focussing on Len Terry rather than Chapman should hopefully give us an interesting and original view.
The problem with telling the Cooper story is that sadly pretty much everyone who was there is long dead. Taking a later car and a different angle, focussing on Len Terry rather than Chapman should hopefully give us an interesting and original view.
I'm sure it'll be a good documentary (fingers crossed) but I still think the real revolution was the Cooper (and the other 500cc cars).
Others had, of course, tried mid engined GP cars going right back to the 1920s. It was the Coopers which showed that their time had come and that it was the only way to go.
Back in 1987, Channel 4 ran a three part series on the development of GP car from 1948 to 1965 which was very well put together with lots of archive film and John Watson test driving a representative series of appropriate cars, including a 500cc Cooper and a GP Cooper. Lotus cars were mentioned and driven, noteably the front engined Lotus 16 but the true importsnce of the Coopers was highlighted. Luckilly I taped the series and I still watch it from time to time as it was so well done.
Others had, of course, tried mid engined GP cars going right back to the 1920s. It was the Coopers which showed that their time had come and that it was the only way to go.
Back in 1987, Channel 4 ran a three part series on the development of GP car from 1948 to 1965 which was very well put together with lots of archive film and John Watson test driving a representative series of appropriate cars, including a 500cc Cooper and a GP Cooper. Lotus cars were mentioned and driven, noteably the front engined Lotus 16 but the true importsnce of the Coopers was highlighted. Luckilly I taped the series and I still watch it from time to time as it was so well done.
The first mid engined car to race in grand prix turned up at Monza in 1923, the Benz Tropfenwagen.
The Auto Union of Hans Stuck became the first winner of a Grand Prix in a rear/mid engined car, this car was designed by Porsche and won the German GP of 1934.
I think WW2 was the reason Cooper had the chance to properly push the rear/mid format, without that it would have happened via Germany long before the UK dragged itself out of the economic mess that it was left with and was viable enough to have racing programs on the go again.
The Auto Union of Hans Stuck became the first winner of a Grand Prix in a rear/mid engined car, this car was designed by Porsche and won the German GP of 1934.
I think WW2 was the reason Cooper had the chance to properly push the rear/mid format, without that it would have happened via Germany long before the UK dragged itself out of the economic mess that it was left with and was viable enough to have racing programs on the go again.
Edited by johnfelstead on Tuesday 17th June 23:59
Possibly - although in the 1930s, the mid engined Auto Unions were slightly less successful than the more conventional Mercedes GP cars. I think that the advantages of the mid engined layout only really came to the fore in the mid 1950s when brake and suspension design was sufficiently advanced enough to take advantage of the better weight distribution of a mid engined layout.
It was going to happen at some point, and it was the Cooper company that got there first.
It was going to happen at some point, and it was the Cooper company that got there first.
Edited by Eric Mc on Wednesday 18th June 00:05
johnfelstead said:
The first mid engined car to race in grand prix turned up at Monza in 1923, the Benz Tropfenwagen.
The Auto Union of Hans Stuck became the first winner of a Grand Prix in a rear/mid engined car, this car was designed by Porsche and won the German GP of 1934.
I think WW2 was the reason Cooper had the chance to properly push the rear/mid format, without that it would have happened via Germany long before the UK dragged itself out of the economic mess that it was left with and was viable enough to have racing programs on the go again.
OK, 'Arry Schell was the first in a World Championship Grand Prix.The Auto Union of Hans Stuck became the first winner of a Grand Prix in a rear/mid engined car, this car was designed by Porsche and won the German GP of 1934.
I think WW2 was the reason Cooper had the chance to properly push the rear/mid format, without that it would have happened via Germany long before the UK dragged itself out of the economic mess that it was left with and was viable enough to have racing programs on the go again.
I'm not convinced that the Germans would have got there first. Don't forget that Mercedes returned with front-engined cars, and that was ano expense spared programme.
The Cooper was rear-engined for the simple reason of not wanting a motorcycle chain running the full length of the chassis. The benefits were conincidental. Of course, you could argue that the whole reason they were running a motorcycle-engined formula was the lack of car engines (new or secondhand) due to the war, but that's a whole different story...
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