F1 2009 - Who will be the top teams?

[VladD]

Given the big rule changes coming to F1, who, apart from the red and silver cars, will be the teams to watch next year. I'm wondering if Red Bull will be fighting for more podiums with Newey designing the car and it being more of a "clean sheet" year. What say you?

[E30M3SE]

Watch out for Honda.

[motormania]

Funny I was just about to ask the same question.

With less reliance on aero's will Red Bull be wondering why they secured Newey?

Can Brawn really bring Honda together like he did at Ferrari?

Can Toyota finally step up?

Or will it still be the same two (make that 3 now with BMW) teams who will dominate?

[Jungles]

I think KERS is being introduced next year too, no?

I think Toyota will be where BMW was last year: best of the rest. Honda will probably improve somewhat, placing themselves just within ankle-snatching distance behind Toyota, and jostling shoulders with Renault. RBR and Williams will probably end up either just behind them or just alongside, while STR and Force India will bring up the rear.

Huge rule changes tend to favour the financially wealthy teams, and upset the privateers.

Edited by Jungles on Tuesday 24th June 11:17

[10 Pence Short]

Probably the teams with the most resources, as always happens with large scale rule changes.

The best way to cut costs is to leave the rules as they are for a few years.

[rubystone]

Whilst I do think that technology-wise, Honda are very likely to be leading the way on KERS, the limitations on the power that KERS systems can generate equalises the field on that front - aside from the weight advantages or disadvantages of the chosen system. I really don't see Honda demonstrating a strong aero team at all...in fact I'm still waiting for them to trot out their own version of the Red Bull/Renault "fin"....or more likely some "X" wings.....

Which inevitably brings us back to how the teams maximise the package. Despite the limitations on aero, you can be sure that the teams with the most resources and the teams that have the best aero brains (usually mutually exclusive) will be working flat out....

In other words, expect to see Ferrari leading the way with McLaren not far behind.

From what I know of Williams though, I expect them to figure strongly next year - certainly stealing a march on their richer brethren in the early stages of the season....and that strong performance may well last for the whole year.

[davidd]

rubystone said:

From what I know of Williams though, I expect them to figure strongly next year - certainly stealing a march on their richer brethren in the early stages of the season....and that strong performance may well last for the whole year.

Are you talking about their recent purchase?

D

[rubystone]

davidd said:

rubystone said:

From what I know of Williams though, I expect them to figure strongly next year - certainly stealing a march on their richer brethren in the early stages of the season....and that strong performance may well last for the whole year.

Are you talking about their recent purchase?

D

Amongst other things, yes

[10 Pence Short]

They've bought some red paint and a stick on bar code for their car? That should ensure some favourable treatment.

[davidd]

rubystone said:

Amongst other things, yes

I really, really want williams to do well....

But no red paint please.
D

[Hut49]

E30M3SE said:

Watch out for Honda.

Let's hope they're even on the grid next year, but I wouldn't put money on it.

[Derek Smith]

Don't expect the new regs to mean any reduction in the need for massive investment in aierdynamics. In fact I would usggest just the reverse in the early stages. The teams that have the best tunnels and, just as importantly, the best aerodynamicists will steal a march.

[bhp1968]

I think we should be aware of Red Bull - their car is really coming along now and they seem to have overcome their initial teething problems that hindered them last year. Safely fourth in the constructors now, Webber has more points in the drivers champ than Kov!

[E30M3SE]

Derek Smith said:

Don't expect the new regs to mean any reduction in the need for massive investment in aierdynamics. In fact I would usggest just the reverse in the early stages. The teams that have the best tunnels and, just as importantly, the best aerodynamicists will steal a march.

On Five Live on Friday morning the was someone from one of the teams (can't remember his name), he was saying that next years rules would result in a 55% reduction in the aero of the cars but designers had already clawed back 30-35 % of the loss' so, no doubt that will certainly be the case.

[JulesV]

davidd said:

rubystone said:

From what I know of Williams though, I expect them to figure strongly next year - certainly stealing a march on their richer brethren in the early stages of the season....and that strong performance may well last for the whole year.

Are you talking about their recent purchase?

D

What recent purchase? Have I missed something?

[skinny]

theybought a firm specialising in small hybrid systems (i think?) for their KERS development

[BoRED S2upid]

Will KERS make such a massive difference?. I can't see if dragging Williams up to Ferrari or Mclaren levels. I think the money available will still play a massive part and you can't discount experience. Lack of Aero will be interesting and put more emphasis on the drivers ability.

Are we going back to slicks in 2009 or is that 2010?.

2009 I would say:

Ferrari
BMW or Toyota
Mclaren

[skinny]

given that for '09 kers is still optional and limited in it's storage and delivery, i doubt it will make much difference at all.

[skwdenyer]

skinny said:

given that for '09 kers is still optional and limited in it's storage and delivery, i doubt it will make much difference at all.

But surely what it does is two-fold. It introduces a new competitive field for motive power development, and it introduces a new strategic element. Not every team will want the KERS system to dump power back to the wheels at the first possible opportunity. There is considerable scope for tuning the system to meet the specific needs of team and driver.