Championship positions after Snetterton

[Britcar David]

The Championship positions are updated following the racing at Snetterton over the weekend.

Results for both Production S1 and Britcar Drivers, Class and Overall Championships can be found at http://www.britcar24hr.co.uk/cms/e107_plugins/cham...

Production S1 is going down to the wire with the potential of 43 points on offer at the last round and only 24 points between the Class 1 BMW of Clarke and Gibson and the Class 2 Clio of Woodman and Thomas and Tim Saunders is mathematically in with a shout being only 40 points behind the BMW pair. It only needs the Clarke / Gibson BMW to have a bad weekend at Brands Hatch in October and the championship is up for grabs.

Over in Britcar GT the Barrett/Persson/Shephard 996 is 16 points ahead of the Maserati/Wright/Maserati 996 with the similar Firman/Bell car just 4 points further adrift. Britcar Production Cup sees the Lawson/Wilds/Wilds BMW 320i 14 points clear of the Watt/Wilson/Duke M3 with the Mouldsale/Kent M3 12 points further back.

Jan Persson is still 13 points clear in the Britcar Drivers Championship from Lawson and Wilds jointly sharing second spot with Miles Maserati and Chris Wright snapping at their heels only 2 points behind.

Kevin Clarke and Wayne Gibson are in joint lead of the Production S1 Drivers Championship with Owen Thomas and Ashley Woodman sharing the runners up slot just 16 points behind.

With just 2 more races in each PS1 and Britcar Championship there is still alot to play for, especially when the dropped scores start get counted at the seasons end!

[Racing Rod]

The regs state that only one round on the Brands Indy circuit is allowed to count towards the championship, this being the case, one would only enter this race for the fun of it if you already had a Brands Indy round where you scored good points and could not really improve that much, unless of course you were defending a lead where one or two points could have an effect, would you agree?

There is also a rumor that the race at Donnington could be a problem due to the works they intend to start fairly soon, can you comment on this or is it just one of those fag end type comments that circulate at race meetings.

[Britcar David]

Donington advised all clubs that had race meetings booked with them that they would be starting work over the winter for the future GP. As of today they are committed to honoring their contract with BRSCC who are running the meeting.

WRT Brands points. Looking at the championship tables those near the top are all within a few points of each other as your comment suggests and many people throughout the championship are having close battles. Some of these have scored at Brands Indy, some haven't. Let battle commence.

[Henry-F]

Rule 1.7.1 is a very very ambiguous rule indeed.

The rule said:

1.7.1 The Britcar Championship 2008 will be competed over 9 rounds including 10 races. The final
championship positions will be determined by an accumulation of the entrants 7 best scores with
the worst scores from the 8 rounds to be dropped over the course of the 2008 season. There are
two rounds at Brands Hatch on the Indy Circuit, where only one of these rounds will count
towards the Championship.

Possibly one of the worst written rules in British motorsport. I am currently seeking confirmation from the championship & MSA stewards as to their interpretation.

On the face of it, it looks like the last round at Brands Hatch does not count towards the championship. Apparently people were being told it did and you pick your best score from either of the 2 rounds. Had that been the case I would have thought they would have written "There are two rounds at Brands Hatch where only one of these rounds can be counted towards the championship. In actual fact you`d write, "There are two rounds at Brands Hatch, only the competitor`s highest scoring round will count towards the championship. Not, only one of these rounds will count towards the championship

As to the first 2 lines of the rule god only knows what you make of it !!

As ever the plot will no doubt unfold in due course.

It`s going to be a fight to the wire between ourselves and Shepherd/Hawthornes Porsche for the Britcar championship, whilst once they play their joker the Lawson / Wilds pairing will take the driver`s championship following Snetterton`s race where they finished unchallenged in class 4 to take 1st, 2nd & 3rd places !! Ian, Anthony and Mike are great guys and particular friends of ours. Their driving has been impeccable all season, but once again I have to say the poorly written rules have let things down rather.

rule 1.8.2 said:

1.8.2 Points will be awarded to all 2008 Britcar registered competitors who are classified starters in a
race and who have completed 80% of the distance of their class winner. If there are less than or
equal to four registered for the Championship in any class, points awarded will be reduced by
50%.

I would have thought 1.8.2 should have said less than or equal to four registered starters in any class, points awarded will be reduced by 50%.

Another alternative is to award 10, 9, 8, 7, 6 etc points for class results plus 1 point for every class starter up to a maximum of 10. That way people who score in a well populated class receive recognition for beating lots of cars.

I got chastised for appearing to think I all the answers last year and so have purposely held off commenting too much this year on here but Britcar do make it hard for themselves sometimes. I said at the start of the season that I thought the Joker system was a bit of a let down. Teams playing their joker early on who fail to finish or have a bad round have little incentive to carry on. We`ve held off playing it to the end of the season because we wanted to avoid the temptation to pack in early if we had a bad round. Either way I think it`s cost Britcar entries this year and possibly it might be better to drop the idea for next year.

As ever please remember I only post because I care - I`ve put my money where my mouth is and turned up for every round this year as I always do.

Henry

Edited by Henry-F on Tuesday 19th August 23:47

[terry678]

It`s going to be a fight to the wire between ourselves and Shepherd/Hawthornes Porsche for the Britcar championship, whilst once they play their joker the Lawson / Wilds pairing will take the driver`s championship following Snetterton`s race where they finished unchallenged in class 4 to take 1st, 2nd & 3rd places !! Ian, Anthony and Mike are great guys and particular friends of ours. Their driving has been impeccable all season, but once again I have to say the poorly written rules have let things down rather.

Henry,the no88 civic was on class pole led the race in class for the first hour posted fasted lap and due to mechanical problems failed to finish.To say the Hawthorns Bmw was unchallenged is a huge insult to all of the MGA team.Maybe that soapbox that you are currently on is slightly wobbly and if not carefull will come crashing down.You are not the only team trying hard the competition is another level this year and as such everyone is struggling to keep up.

Excuse punctuation,secondary modern education.

Henry i am not having a go at you as i agree with most of your comments but that one is not right

[ALEC FRANCIS]

Surely you can do both but only the best one counts, Henry you wanted more racing, stop moaning.
Just phone jt.

Edited by ALEC FRANCIS on Wednesday 20th August 08:04

[Henry-F]

terry678 said:

Henry,the no88 civic was on class pole led the race in class for the first hour posted fasted lap and due to mechanical problems failed to finish.To say the (Wilds/Lawson/Wilds) Bmw was unchallenged is a huge insult to all of the MGA team.Maybe that soapbox that you are currently on is slightly wobbly and if not carefull will come crashing down.You are not the only team trying hard the competition is another level this year and as such everyone is struggling to keep up.

Please forgive my choice of words. I was fully aware of your Honda, one of the few cars in the field with what appears to be a wood finish on the side .

In using the phrase "unchallenged" I meant it was the only car in it`s class to finish, not the only car in it`s class that was on the pace. I hope that at Snetterton I showed your car respect both off and on the circuit. Knowing the race between the two cars was tight I took care when passing so as not to disrupt either car`s challenge.

I am mindful that the quality of both teams and drivers in the greater kg/bhp classes is of the highest order. The frustration is that with small fields outsiders may not realise just how competitive those cars are.

In my own season this year I am conscious class 2 is far less populated than class 1 and that is partially responsible for it`s positioning in the overall championship results. Cars in the 1"b" class had no hope at all this year from the outset.

Once again please forgive my choice of words and be assured it was not intended as you read it.

Henry

[Henry-F]

ALEC FRANCIS said:

Surely you can do both but only the best one counts, Henry you wanted more racing, stop moaning.
Just phone jt.

Edited by ALEC FRANCIS on Wednesday 20th August 08:04

Britcar is now an MSA sanctioned championship, not James` personal series. At Silverstone we were told of James` dream to run international events and to that end the team was evaluated by the MSA. I`d love to see that happen, anything to raise the profile of the series you race in is great.

At an international level teams will & do not suffer ambiguous rules gladly. Better to be sharpening the pencil with someone like me than a team manager from one of the A1GP teams or a team who see their driver as the next Lewis Hamilton. I am fully aware of my limitations on the track and won`t be giving up the day job.

My apologies for the post. To confirm - everything is excellent, the rules are spot on, policing and on track regulation is the best and there is nothing further to discuss.

As I constantly say on here I post because I care.

Henry

[Racing Rod]

Henry-F said:

Rule 1.7.1 is a very very ambiguous rule indeed.

The rule said:

1.7.1 The Britcar Championship 2008 will be competed over 9 rounds including 10 races. The final
championship positions will be determined by an accumulation of the entrants 7 best scores with
the worst scores from the 8 rounds to be dropped over the course of the 2008 season. There are
two rounds at Brands Hatch on the Indy Circuit, where only one of these rounds will count
towards the Championship.

Possibly one of the worst written rules in British motorsport. I am currently seeking confirmation from the championship & MSA stewards as to their interpretation.

I agree Henry, not very clear at all, but it makes some sense if you
strip it down into it's component parts

(1) The Britcar Championship 2008 will be competed over 9 rounds including 10 races.

This refers to all the rounds on the calender including the two night races as these equate to 9 rounds with 10 races as Brands GP was a two race event.

(2) The final championship positions will be determined by an accumulation of the entrants 7 best scores with the worst scores from the 8 rounds to be dropped over the course of the 2008 season.

The first part is fine, the reference to 8 rounds is where part of the confusion has arisen. In real terms one should read part 3 as part 2, for if you do, it starts to make some sense.

(3) There are two rounds at Brands Hatch on the Indy Circuit, where only one of these rounds will count towards the Championship.

Now we switch things around to read as follows;

(1) The Britcar Championship 2008 will be competed over 9 rounds including 10 races.

(2) There are two rounds at Brands Hatch on the Indy Circuit, where only one of these rounds will count towards the Championship.

(3) The final championship positions will be determined by an accumulation of the entrants 7 best scores with the worst scores from the 8 rounds to be dropped over the course of the 2008 season.


(1A) So, 9 rounds, 10 races, correct.

(2A) 2 Brands Indy rounds, but only one will count towards the championship,the choice seems to be ours in terms of which round we wish to include, so again, lets tick this box.

(3A) The reference to the 8 rounds seems to incorporate the fact that one of the Brands Indy rounds will not count towards the championship. Here we get a touch of further confusion as we now have 8 rounds but 9 races. If 7 rounds are counted does this in fact mean that it's 7 rounds but 8 races or does it mean the 7 best scores which could of course come from 6 rounds as Brands GP included 2 races, this is the bit I'm still not sure about. It does state that "The entrants 7 best scores" will determine the accumulated championship position, that being the case, Brands GP could be dropped in total or in part, i.e "I liked the result from race 1, but race 2, I'll drop.

I wholeheartedly agree that we need a definitive and absolute interpretation from Britcar so that the championship does not end in confusion and with bad feeling all round, the championship winners do deserve to claim their prize with the knowledge that it was won on the track and in a fair and square fashion, otherwise it's not worth having.

Turning to the drivers championship, here again I do see your point as it will almost certainly go to a class 4 driver who may or may not have had the competition that some of the other classes have had. I must admit that I am having trouble understanding the rules under which half points are rewarded etc etc, again we could do with some clarification on this issue. Having said that, a class 4 driver should not be penalised because the entry level for that class was lower then expected, that's hardly his fault, but if it was made quite clear from day one that if he entered a car in class 4 and not enough fellow class mates came out to play, his race results could be reduced in terms of points towards the overall driver championship, then that would be a chance he would have to accept. Is, or has this been made clear? if not, then that's just something that the rest of us will have to live with.

Both of our teams have every chance of winning the class 2 battle, we also have every chance of winning the overall Britcar GT title, You and Jan have a good chance of competing for the Britcar "Drivers" title but it's here where the class 4 car drivers can sweep through. I can't say in all honesty if this is a fair reflection based on pure competition, but it's the rules that will decide it one way or another and as I signed up based on the regs published I will accept Britcars interpretation as that is the only real option.

Edited by Racing Rod on Wednesday 20th August 16:47

[Bellly]

Rod

I am confused?

Have you not got a proper job?

[Bellly]

Is the Driver's Championship based on the total number of points scored or do you have to drop your worst three rounds?

[Racing Rod]

Bellly said:

Rod

I am confused?

Have you not got a proper job?

Confused.com!!!!!! We all are! Just showed Diane this and she hasn't stopped laughing!!!!

[Bellly]

Makes it all worth while when you can have a laugh!

Going to buy you some night vision googles and make Diane send you to the gym so you can at least come and fight at the night races

[Racing Rod]

Bellly said:

Makes it all worth while when you can have a laugh!

Going to buy you some night vision googles and make Diane send you to the gym so you can at least come and fight at the night races

I'm sitting in my study looking at a rather special award that I received at the 2000 Tuscan Challenge Dinner, it's a divers lamp inscribed "For the best night drive"

15 laps of Silverstone in the pitch black with no lights, couldn't see a bloody thing

On second thoughts, I'll take the night vision goggles, you can have the googles,

but there is no way I'm going to the gym