Donkey new engine 4th's .....

[Scuffers]

ITV-F1 said:

Red Bull Racing’s Mark Webber believes sister team Toro Rosso’s superior Valencia performance can be partly explained by a Ferrari engine that is as much as four-tenths of a second faster than the Renault unit in his car.

Webber said:

We know that they have a stronger engine – that is clear – but probably not by the amount that they are ahead of us.

The engine is probably worth four-tenths or so but the rest is…we need to do a better job.

comments?

[zac510]

They (STR) are both on first engine and first gearbox this weekend so it's possible they have a new variant.

[Scuffers]

zac510 said:

They (STR) are both on first engine and first gearbox this weekend so it's possible they have a new variant.

this we know, my point was relative to the engine freeze and suddently having a much stronger engine.....

[stephen300o]

I presume this is just a thread to stir up even more baseless anti-Ferrari nonsense.

[Munter]

I dont see anything wrong with what Ferrari have done on their engine. I do see something wrong with Renault halting all development work though. There are many areas around the block/pistons/head etc which ARE open to development.

Basically Renault dropped the ball and their customer is paying the price...

[FourWheelDrift]

Or more to do with the inter team rivalry of Red Bull-Renault and Torro Rosso-Ferrari. After all Torro Rosso are supposed to be the junior Red Bull team.

[Scuffers]

stephen300o said:

I presume this is just a thread to stir up even more baseless anti-Ferrari nonsense.

LOL!

not at all....

just seems a little odd from the sidelines that when there is an engine design freeze in force, they can gain so much mid-season... and I don't mean with respect to Red Bull, but with their own previous pace.

[Munter]

They have gained so much here because everybodys setups are all over the place. But a strong engine is helping them to make the best of it.

[FourWheelDrift]

The engine design is not completely frozen, they can work on such things as fuels, lubricants, airboxes and exhaust acoustics plus I think if there is a regular component failure they are allowed to change it. Most engines are improving throughout the year, except Renault if you listen to Briatore and Alonso, but that might just be the work-shy French at Renault

[Plug550]

Munter said:

Basically Renault dropped the ball and their customer is paying the price...

Yup. Vettel must be slightly concerned about the situation as well. But don't forget that one swallow don't make a summer, or something like that

[skinny]

there was a story a few weeks ago saying that mclaren were also around 25bhp estimated ahead of others (like renault i guess) so it's basically just that everyone else has developed their engine still under the rules of the engine freeze, renault have not touched theirs, and now are down on power, and therefore are making unhappy noises.

[Scuffers]

skinny said:

there was a story a few weeks ago saying that mclaren were also around 25bhp estimated ahead of others (like renault i guess) so it's basically just that everyone else has developed their engine still under the rules of the engine freeze, renault have not touched theirs, and now are down on power, and therefore are making unhappy noises.

sort of beggs the question what was the point int he engine freeze does it not?

[anonymous-user]

Munter said:

I dont see anything wrong with what Ferrari have done on their engine. I do see something wrong with Renault halting all development work though. There are many areas around the block/pistons/head etc which ARE open to development.

Basically Renault dropped the ball and their customer is paying the price...

or webber is being shown up by a younger driver and looking for excuses....

[zac510]

Renault have basically admitted themselves that they've dropped the ball. So not much more discussion to it, really!

[Derek Smith]

Scuffers said:

sort of beggs the question what was the point int he engine freeze does it not?

The suggested point was to lower the development costs but this it has not done. It's a stupid idea anyway. The budgets are not set on need but income. Ferrari, the richest team in the pitlane, spend the same amount on their cars as they would if there had not been an engine freeze. That much is obvious. They are about to build a massive wind tunnel, something where they have been behind Mclaren for some years. Whilst they may have paid for this with money saved from the engine freeze, they've still spent it and, of course, the smaller teams cannot afford such massive investment. The gap between rich and poor will remain.

When you look at the various times of Q1 and Q2 at Valencia you can appreciate how close the cars are in times nowadays. I think the second 10 were within less than 1.5 seconds of each other. One wonders if this will continue into 2009 when the massive changes come about.

Change costs and will affect the poorer teams much more that the big budget ones. One wonders where Renault will be on the grid or if it will be there at all.

[Scuffers]

I guess the days of F1 being innovative are basically over then.....

[Munter]

Scuffers said:

I guess the days of RENAULT being innovative are basically over then.....

EFA