The Bridgestone 2008 F1 tyre.
Discussion
It seems to me that tyres are having a bigger influence on this year's championship than the drivers or the cars. These tyres seem to be very sensitive to treatment when it comes to their performance. Basically they like to be hot and they like to be used agressively in order to give the most grip.
So McLaren, whose car is hard on their tyres, are at an advantage. Especially if the ambient temperature is low or there is dampness or wetness around. Within the team Hamilton is usually at an advantage as he drives more loosely than Heiki, giving the tyres more stick. However when the weather is hot that advantage is negated and Heikki becomes just as fast, or even faster, than Hamilton.
The Ferrari is much lighter on the tyres, so suffers when the weather is cooler or wet. Within the team the tyres favour Massa's agressive style over Kimi's smoother style. You can see that in mid race when Kimi is well stuck in and gets the tyres hot that he then shows his real speed and often puts in fastest lap of the race.
At Honda Button is Mr super smooth, so the tyres don't like him. And Rubens, who is not as smooth, is much more competetive against him than he was last season.
At BMW the tyres are favouring the agressive Kubica over the smoother Quick Nick.
Alonso seems to have changed his style to get the best out of the tyres. In the past he has liked a stable, slightly understeering platform. Now he seems to be deliberately moving the car around to give the tyres more stick. Which maybe is one of the reasons he is getting the Renault to out perform.
So the WDC depends on how hot the weather is for the remaining races.
Let's hope that next year Bridgestone make a tyre that is more even handed in the performance it delivers to different drivers.
So McLaren, whose car is hard on their tyres, are at an advantage. Especially if the ambient temperature is low or there is dampness or wetness around. Within the team Hamilton is usually at an advantage as he drives more loosely than Heiki, giving the tyres more stick. However when the weather is hot that advantage is negated and Heikki becomes just as fast, or even faster, than Hamilton.
The Ferrari is much lighter on the tyres, so suffers when the weather is cooler or wet. Within the team the tyres favour Massa's agressive style over Kimi's smoother style. You can see that in mid race when Kimi is well stuck in and gets the tyres hot that he then shows his real speed and often puts in fastest lap of the race.
At Honda Button is Mr super smooth, so the tyres don't like him. And Rubens, who is not as smooth, is much more competetive against him than he was last season.
At BMW the tyres are favouring the agressive Kubica over the smoother Quick Nick.
Alonso seems to have changed his style to get the best out of the tyres. In the past he has liked a stable, slightly understeering platform. Now he seems to be deliberately moving the car around to give the tyres more stick. Which maybe is one of the reasons he is getting the Renault to out perform.
So the WDC depends on how hot the weather is for the remaining races.
Let's hope that next year Bridgestone make a tyre that is more even handed in the performance it delivers to different drivers.
Airbag said:
And lets hope that the FIA drop the ludicrous requirement of using both tyres in the race. They might as well mandate that you must use the rain tyre as well.
Nope. They're still going to have hard and soft tyres, and the drivers must still use each type of tyre during the race. However, there will be a greater difference between the two compounds than there is currently.Fivepercent said:
It seems to me that tyres are having a bigger influence on this year's championship than the drivers or the cars. These tyres seem to be very sensitive to treatment when it comes to their performance. Basically they like to be hot and they like to be used agressively in order to give the most grip.
So McLaren, whose car is hard on their tyres, are at an advantage. Especially if the ambient temperature is low or there is dampness or wetness around. Within the team Hamilton is usually at an advantage as he drives more loosely than Heiki, giving the tyres more stick. However when the weather is hot that advantage is negated and Heikki becomes just as fast, or even faster, than Hamilton.
The Ferrari is much lighter on the tyres, so suffers when the weather is cooler or wet. Within the team the tyres favour Massa's agressive style over Kimi's smoother style. You can see that in mid race when Kimi is well stuck in and gets the tyres hot that he then shows his real speed and often puts in fastest lap of the race.
At Honda Button is Mr super smooth, so the tyres don't like him. And Rubens, who is not as smooth, is much more competetive against him than he was last season.
At BMW the tyres are favouring the agressive Kubica over the smoother Quick Nick.
]b]Alonso seems to have changed his style to get the best out of the tyres[b]. In the past he has liked a stable, slightly understeering platform. Now he seems to be deliberately moving the car around to give the tyres more stick. Which maybe is one of the reasons he is getting the Renault to out perform.
So the WDC depends on how hot the weather is for the remaining races.
Let's hope that next year Bridgestone make a tyre that is more even handed in the performance it delivers to different drivers.
Nail on the head. Good drivers will adapt their driving style to the prevailing conditions whether because it's raining, hot, cold,etc. Tyres not at fault.So McLaren, whose car is hard on their tyres, are at an advantage. Especially if the ambient temperature is low or there is dampness or wetness around. Within the team Hamilton is usually at an advantage as he drives more loosely than Heiki, giving the tyres more stick. However when the weather is hot that advantage is negated and Heikki becomes just as fast, or even faster, than Hamilton.
The Ferrari is much lighter on the tyres, so suffers when the weather is cooler or wet. Within the team the tyres favour Massa's agressive style over Kimi's smoother style. You can see that in mid race when Kimi is well stuck in and gets the tyres hot that he then shows his real speed and often puts in fastest lap of the race.
At Honda Button is Mr super smooth, so the tyres don't like him. And Rubens, who is not as smooth, is much more competetive against him than he was last season.
At BMW the tyres are favouring the agressive Kubica over the smoother Quick Nick.
]b]Alonso seems to have changed his style to get the best out of the tyres[b]. In the past he has liked a stable, slightly understeering platform. Now he seems to be deliberately moving the car around to give the tyres more stick. Which maybe is one of the reasons he is getting the Renault to out perform.
So the WDC depends on how hot the weather is for the remaining races.
Let's hope that next year Bridgestone make a tyre that is more even handed in the performance it delivers to different drivers.
Fivepercent said:
Let's hope that next year Bridgestone make a tyre that is more even handed in the performance it delivers to different drivers.
I can't see how a company can be more even handed than by giving everybody the same equipment. Its up to the teams and drivers to make the most of what they've got.I don't agree that the difference is that marked. It might make the difference between first and second now and then, but certainly not between first and say, 12th.
And Barrichello has always been good in the wet. At Donny '93 he had a better first lap than Senna, going from 12th to 4th IIRC. Only trouble was, nobody was watching. Rubens was good in F3 in the wet, as was Senna.
THE big difference of this year is the lack of tc, imo. It is that which is harming the tyres more than anything else, imo. I think historically LH has been hard on his tyres, especially the fronts (he does like a pointy front end, and makes the rear end dance). In that one race this year, didn't LH need a third pitstop, because he'd punctured the previous year, but HK was fine on 2 stops?
I think the big difference is how the drivers are managing without tc. I agree there are differences between how the Maccas and fezzas perform on their tyres, but it ain't that marked and it balances out pretty much. Most GPs are in hot conditions i would say, which should affect McL more, but they are leading the wdc and would be leading the mdc were it not for Heikkis poor performances.
simba1 said:
Fivepercent said:
It seems to me that tyres are having a bigger influence on this year's championship than the drivers or the cars. These tyres seem to be very sensitive to treatment when it comes to their performance. Basically they like to be hot and they like to be used agressively in order to give the most grip.
So McLaren, whose car is hard on their tyres, are at an advantage. Especially if the ambient temperature is low or there is dampness or wetness around. Within the team Hamilton is usually at an advantage as he drives more loosely than Heiki, giving the tyres more stick. However when the weather is hot that advantage is negated and Heikki becomes just as fast, or even faster, than Hamilton.
The Ferrari is much lighter on the tyres, so suffers when the weather is cooler or wet. Within the team the tyres favour Massa's agressive style over Kimi's smoother style. You can see that in mid race when Kimi is well stuck in and gets the tyres hot that he then shows his real speed and often puts in fastest lap of the race.
At Honda Button is Mr super smooth, so the tyres don't like him. And Rubens, who is not as smooth, is much more competetive against him than he was last season.
At BMW the tyres are favouring the agressive Kubica over the smoother Quick Nick.
Alonso seems to have changed his style to get the best out of the tyres. In the past he has liked a stable, slightly understeering platform. Now he seems to be deliberately moving the car around to give the tyres more stick. Which maybe is one of the reasons he is getting the Renault to out perform.
So the WDC depends on how hot the weather is for the remaining races.
Let's hope that next year Bridgestone make a tyre that is more even handed in the performance it delivers to different drivers.
Nail on the head. Good drivers will adapt their driving style to the prevailing conditions whether because it's raining, hot, cold,etc. Tyres not at fault.So McLaren, whose car is hard on their tyres, are at an advantage. Especially if the ambient temperature is low or there is dampness or wetness around. Within the team Hamilton is usually at an advantage as he drives more loosely than Heiki, giving the tyres more stick. However when the weather is hot that advantage is negated and Heikki becomes just as fast, or even faster, than Hamilton.
The Ferrari is much lighter on the tyres, so suffers when the weather is cooler or wet. Within the team the tyres favour Massa's agressive style over Kimi's smoother style. You can see that in mid race when Kimi is well stuck in and gets the tyres hot that he then shows his real speed and often puts in fastest lap of the race.
At Honda Button is Mr super smooth, so the tyres don't like him. And Rubens, who is not as smooth, is much more competetive against him than he was last season.
At BMW the tyres are favouring the agressive Kubica over the smoother Quick Nick.
Alonso seems to have changed his style to get the best out of the tyres. In the past he has liked a stable, slightly understeering platform. Now he seems to be deliberately moving the car around to give the tyres more stick. Which maybe is one of the reasons he is getting the Renault to out perform.
So the WDC depends on how hot the weather is for the remaining races.
Let's hope that next year Bridgestone make a tyre that is more even handed in the performance it delivers to different drivers.
The tyres are common to all the teams. How can they decide the championship?
Fivepercent said:
So McLaren, whose car is hard on their tyres, are at an advantage. Especially if the ambient temperature is low or there is dampness or wetness around. Within the team Hamilton is usually at an advantage as he drives more loosely than Heiki, giving the tyres more stick. However when the weather is hot that advantage is negated and Heikki becomes just as fast, or even faster, than Hamilton.
The Ferrari is much lighter on the tyres, so suffers when the weather is cooler or wet. Within the team the tyres favour Massa's agressive style over Kimi's smoother style. You can see that in mid race when Kimi is well stuck in and gets the tyres hot that he then shows his real speed and often puts in fastest lap of the race.
So Mclaren design a car that uses the tyres harder (uses them within the regulatiosn better). They should be penilised?? I dont think so. The tryes are common to all teams so in effect they have researched and used the results of the tyres tests better than the other teams. The Ferrari is much lighter on the tyres, so suffers when the weather is cooler or wet. Within the team the tyres favour Massa's agressive style over Kimi's smoother style. You can see that in mid race when Kimi is well stuck in and gets the tyres hot that he then shows his real speed and often puts in fastest lap of the race.
If ferrari had more insight they could also use this to there advantage, but then its easier for them to use FIA to get an advantage over the other teams!
Back when there were two suppliers Bridgestone always played it safe with the tyres seemingly harder and more difficult to get to temperature. They were however very stable when they got there. Michelin always went for outright performance favouring a "softer" compound that was at times too marginal on performance. When Ferrari got tyres that were bespoke to them this worked quite well as they could "pick and Choose" compounds and get them to take those compunds to a race meaning every other Bridgestone runner had to adapt. Now looks like it's coming back to bite them. McLaren have found a way to make them work faster than Ferrari.
Good point about McLaren designing a car that gets the best out of these tyres.
But it could have been gifted to them by the weather.
This year's races have been colder and wetter than normal. (Global warming)
Maybe if the weather had been normal then the Ferrari set up for these tyres would have been the best.
Certainly the racing at Spa seemed to fit my theory.
But it could have been gifted to them by the weather.
This year's races have been colder and wetter than normal. (Global warming)
Maybe if the weather had been normal then the Ferrari set up for these tyres would have been the best.
Certainly the racing at Spa seemed to fit my theory.
Fivepercent said:
Good point about McLaren designing a car that gets the best out of these tyres.
But it could have been gifted to them by the weather.
This year's races have been colder and wetter than normal. (Global warming)
Maybe if the weather had been normal then the Ferrari set up for these tyres would have been the best.
Certainly the racing at Spa seemed to fit my theory.
Global warming if you say so. A lot of grand prix at spa have at some point had rain over the weekend. But it could have been gifted to them by the weather.
This year's races have been colder and wetter than normal. (Global warming)
Maybe if the weather had been normal then the Ferrari set up for these tyres would have been the best.
Certainly the racing at Spa seemed to fit my theory.
stevieb said:
Fivepercent said:
So McLaren, whose car is hard on their tyres, are at an advantage. Especially if the ambient temperature is low or there is dampness or wetness around. Within the team Hamilton is usually at an advantage as he drives more loosely than Heiki, giving the tyres more stick. However when the weather is hot that advantage is negated and Heikki becomes just as fast, or even faster, than Hamilton.
The Ferrari is much lighter on the tyres, so suffers when the weather is cooler or wet. Within the team the tyres favour Massa's agressive style over Kimi's smoother style. You can see that in mid race when Kimi is well stuck in and gets the tyres hot that he then shows his real speed and often puts in fastest lap of the race.
So Mclaren design a car that uses the tyres harder (uses them within the regulatiosn better). They should be penilised?? I dont think so.The Ferrari is much lighter on the tyres, so suffers when the weather is cooler or wet. Within the team the tyres favour Massa's agressive style over Kimi's smoother style. You can see that in mid race when Kimi is well stuck in and gets the tyres hot that he then shows his real speed and often puts in fastest lap of the race.
telecat said:
When Ferrari got tyres that were bespoke to them this worked quite well as they could "pick and Choose" compounds and get them to take those compunds to a race meaning every other Bridgestone runner had to adapt. Now looks like it's coming back to bite them. McLaren have found a way to make them work faster than Ferrari.
Not in 2006. Bridgestone came up with a new stiffer construction that year and Ferrari initially struggled on some tracks because they couldn't get the best out of them, Toyota struggled even more so because they couldn't generate heat into the tyres. Some of the tell tale signs were the front lock ups frequently by Bridgestone runners.
It was in the second half of that season did Ferrari got it together because they were on a roll after the USGP.
stevieb said:
Fivepercent said:
So McLaren, whose car is hard on their tyres, are at an advantage. Especially if the ambient temperature is low or there is dampness or wetness around. Within the team Hamilton is usually at an advantage as he drives more loosely than Heiki, giving the tyres more stick. However when the weather is hot that advantage is negated and Heikki becomes just as fast, or even faster, than Hamilton.
The Ferrari is much lighter on the tyres, so suffers when the weather is cooler or wet. Within the team the tyres favour Massa's agressive style over Kimi's smoother style. You can see that in mid race when Kimi is well stuck in and gets the tyres hot that he then shows his real speed and often puts in fastest lap of the race.
So Mclaren design a car that uses the tyres harder (uses them within the regulatiosn better). They should be penilised?? I dont think so.The Ferrari is much lighter on the tyres, so suffers when the weather is cooler or wet. Within the team the tyres favour Massa's agressive style over Kimi's smoother style. You can see that in mid race when Kimi is well stuck in and gets the tyres hot that he then shows his real speed and often puts in fastest lap of the race.
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