Marshalling at Singa-poor

[heightswitch]

Was it just my imagination or when Piquet hit the wall did he receive absolutely no assistance from anyone, He was obviously dazed, he struggled to release himself from the car then he had to cross the track onto the racing line and find a hole in the wall?

I was a little disturbed that no marshalls seemed to be anywhere until the safety car was deployed.

Glad there wasn't a fire??

N.

[Chassis 33]

You beat me to it! Was just going to start a similar thread, I started shouting at the TV then sat gobsmacked all through the next ad-break. The standard of marshalling was pitiful.

To end on a positive note though, UK marshals are brilliant, if it wasn't for the guys and girls in orange we'd never get to race, and I've never had cause to complain. Thankyou!

Regards
Iain

[mat205125]

I'd be very surprised if all of the marshalls hadn't been given strict instructions to remain behind the barriers until either a safety car was out, or it was confirmed to them that there was a gap in the traffic. There are few more dangerous environments than marshalling a street circuit, and these guys are largely there at the own expense too ... Lots of Autralians by all accounts.

[excersizer]

mat205125 said:

I'd be very surprised if all of the marshalls hadn't been given strict instructions to remain behind the barriers until either a safety car was out, or it was confirmed to them that there was a gap in the traffic. There are few more dangerous environments than marshalling a street circuit, and these guys are largely there at the own expense too ... Lots of Autralians by all accounts.

IIRC, Piquet had to run across the track to get to the gap in the fencing. There was no gap on his side of the track, so maybe a case of poor planning? I don't fancy crossing the track at a blind corner like that, yellow flags or not!

[kevin ritson]

Chassis 33 said:

To end on a positive note though, UK marshals are brilliant, if it wasn't for the guys and girls in orange we'd never get to race, and I've never had cause to complain. Thankyou!

Indeed - soaking wet British GP and not a single safety car. Bernie would do well to remember this.

[EddyP]

I completly agree, and this wasn't the only incident.
It was the same when Kimi crashed and another one that stuffed it into the armco, the marshalls just stood watching instead of helping. Should have issued them bags of popcorn instead of fire extinguishers.

[Simes205]

I thought I was the only one! I was caught shouting at the TV for the marshalls to get Piquet out of the car!!

[baz7175]

It wasn't just the lack of assistance right after the crash happened - once the safety car was out on track, we had one lone marshall out on track with a brush trying to push as much of the post-fire extinguisher foam (from front right brake area which had a small fire after sitting for 30seconds or so)off to the side of the track, and the cars which had yet to catch the safety car were still taking that corner with some venom (not sure if this was on air time in UK, I was watching on Premiere out here in Germany which had no ad break to hide it behind...after maybe the second tour round behind the safety car the speed into that corner was HEAVILY decreased as the powers that be no doubt saw for themselves on screen how dangerous it was...

[Graham]

kevin ritson said:

Indeed - soaking wet British GP and not a single safety car. Bernie would do well to remember this.

<LOL> actually I bet he was Livid, no opportunity to close the pack to manipulate the result for a grandstand finish

[woof]

Simes205 said:

I thought I was the only one! I was caught shouting at the TV for the marshalls to get Piquet out of the car!!

A marshal should never extract a driver from a car - unless the car was about to go up in flames
they're not qualified and are under strict instructions not to assist - unless a driver is removing himself

Remember poor Daijiro Kato at the Japanese MotoGp a few years back - the marshals dragged him off the track and probably worsening the neck/back injury he had.

[lord summerisle]

woof said:

Simes205 said:

I thought I was the only one! I was caught shouting at the TV for the marshalls to get Piquet out of the car!!

A marshal should never extract a driver from a car - unless the car was about to go up in flames
they're not qualified and are under strict instructions not to assist - unless a driver is removing himself

Remember poor Daijiro Kato at the Japanese MotoGp a few years back - the marshals dragged him off the track and probably worsening the neck/back injury he had.

indeed - they are also instructed that if, on reaching the car, there is a particular light lit up (explained in the morning briefing) then the driver is either not to get out the car until medical assisstance has arrived*, or if he is already out of the car - then the driver must report immediatly to the Medical Centre - the light is part of a G sensor, and in the case of a high G impact, then the light comes on.

As i mentioned in the Main GP thread - as a marshal - i would not have crossed the track either to get to Nelson - unless i could get across safely. Sure i am a marshal to help in the case of an incident happening - but i am of no use being an orange smear on the tarmac because i was hit crossing the track with a 12kg fire bottle.
I think its a very poor design of track where there is a point on the circuit which marshals can not access the track from both sides.

the thing is - F1 is going to more and more places where there isnt a dedicated marshalling force - many of these new circuits are manned by very inexperianced marshals, supplimented by regular marshals from other countries who have flown in at their own expense. This is why all flag signals are control from race control - flaggies wear radios, and are told when to put which flags out.
In the UK - you can not volunteer to marshal the British GP untill you have gained your first upgrade from trainee, and also completed a futher number of days marshalling (ie at least 10 meetings as a trainee, as well as a training day, including practical fire fighting, plus a further minimum of 12 days marshaling in the 12months before the GP) wereas in Singapore it could well have been some of those marshals first day on 'the bank'

[Piglet]

lord summerisle said:

I think its a very poor design of track where there is a point on the circuit which marshals can not access the track from both sides.

I'm not sure it's a poor design, it's just something that is especially inherent in a street circuit "type" set up. In an ideal world you'd have marshals posts equally spread out around both sides of the circuit but this isn't always possible and takes a lot of bodies to man well. TBH there are plenty of circuits in the UK where there isn't access for marshals to both sides of the track at all points.

If you don't have marshals posts on each sides at all points then you have to rely more on rapid response vehicles/FD cars etc. It can and does work well but the FD cars must be deployed.

[Chassis 33]

IIRC (although I may be wrong here) there were marshals on the side of the track when the Renault stopped.
Regards
Iain

[Ganglandboss]

lord summerisle said:

Sure i am a marshal to help in the case of an incident happening - but i am of no use being an orange smear on the tarmac because i was hit crossing the track with a 12kg fire bottle.

Absolutely - the death of Tom Pryce and Jansen Van Vuuren at Kyalami is good enough reason to stay put.

Edited by Ganglandboss on Monday 29th September 11:36

[10 Pence Short]

It's worth noting that Piquet spent some time sat in the car talking to the pits after the car had come to a halt, rather than being incapacitated.

[mat205125]

kevin ritson said:

Indeed - soaking wet British GP and not a single safety car. Bernie would do well to remember this.

Silverstone is a wide open waste land track with enormous run offs and chances to "get away with it" if you miss a braking point etc. It is not a street circuit where the track is narrower and punctuated by concrete and armco.

How many cars ventured outside of the circuit boundaries during the Britsh GP, that would have smashed and pinballed down the road had the circuit been a street circuit - Admittedly drivers will drive within the confines of the track a lot more on a street circuit, and not take chances like they might if the track has acres of run off.

[lord summerisle]

Chassis 33 said:

IIRC (although I may be wrong here) there were marshals on the side of the track when the Renault stopped.
Regards
Iain

well there where people behind him - but they where spectators:



like i said - there doesnt seem to be track access on that side of the circuit:


and i think the reasoning seems to be there isnt the space because of the grandstand being there.

[Murph7355]

Piglet said:

I'm not sure it's a poor design, it's just something that is especially inherent in a street circuit "type" set up. In an ideal world you'd have marshals posts equally spread out around both sides of the circuit but this isn't always possible ...

Not sure that's true.

They turn day into night with electric lights, they close off major highways in a major city...it's surely not beyond their powers to create entrances to both sides of the circuit (the one possible exception being Anderson Bridge!).

I think people are being a tad harsh on the marshalls. As others have mentioned, they give up their own time to do this job, and much of what they do will be massively controlled.

For the Piquet incident, it was obvious he was fine - he even said as much over the radio, while he was apologising for spanking it.

[Chassis 33]

lord summerisle said:

Chassis 33 said:

IIRC (although I may be wrong here) there were marshals on the side of the track when the Renault stopped.
Regards
Iain

well there where people behind him - but they where spectators:

Apologies.
Regards
Iain

[lord summerisle]

Chassis 33 said:

Apologies.
Regards
Iain

quite alright
thought it was worth a double check