Mosley's decisions - struggling to find a connection.
Discussion
Can you help a confused F1 supporter?
I'm trying to find some sort of logic with recent events. I feel there must be some connection but I'm blowed if I can see it.
Now If we go back to beating womengate, the Canadians came out strongly against Mosley, expressing their belief that he should resign. Also on the side of the Canadians were Mercedes and BMW, the latter two being attacked by Mosley.
Mosley's proposals as to the single engine will negate any advantage manufacturers may get from investing £millions in our sport. We obviously don't know whose responsibility it will be to design this engine. I mean it could be anyone.
Further, Eccs has forgiven his long time friend and partner Mosley and come on board with him.
And Eccs has removed the Canadian GP from the list, leaving it two short of the 20 he promised.
So, as I say, any connections would be tenuous at most but has anyone any ideas?
I'm trying to find some sort of logic with recent events. I feel there must be some connection but I'm blowed if I can see it.
Now If we go back to beating womengate, the Canadians came out strongly against Mosley, expressing their belief that he should resign. Also on the side of the Canadians were Mercedes and BMW, the latter two being attacked by Mosley.
Mosley's proposals as to the single engine will negate any advantage manufacturers may get from investing £millions in our sport. We obviously don't know whose responsibility it will be to design this engine. I mean it could be anyone.
Further, Eccs has forgiven his long time friend and partner Mosley and come on board with him.
And Eccs has removed the Canadian GP from the list, leaving it two short of the 20 he promised.
So, as I say, any connections would be tenuous at most but has anyone any ideas?
I think the fact that the man responsible for getting the Abu Dhabi project going being the same man that organised enough votes to ensure Max's success in the recent vote of no-confidence is purely co-incidental.
As is the fact that the Allgemeiner Deutscher Automobilclub (ADAC) spoke out against Max & is now under investigation for having too much control over the Deutsche Motor Sport Bund (DMSB).
It is equally co-incidental that the British Racing Drivers' Club's GP has been taken away from them & has nothing to do with their critiscm of Max's activities.
As is the fact that the Allgemeiner Deutscher Automobilclub (ADAC) spoke out against Max & is now under investigation for having too much control over the Deutsche Motor Sport Bund (DMSB).
It is equally co-incidental that the British Racing Drivers' Club's GP has been taken away from them & has nothing to do with their critiscm of Max's activities.
I'm quite cautious about saying anything detrimental towards Max as 'bad' things seem to happen to people and organisations that have (purely coincidentally).
Therefore, I think he's a real credit to Motorsport, and an honourable and upstanding individual (except when being checked for 'lice').
ETA: After submitting the above I got an email saying I can't host any more Grands Prix. Coincidence???
Therefore, I think he's a real credit to Motorsport, and an honourable and upstanding individual (except when being checked for 'lice').
ETA: After submitting the above I got an email saying I can't host any more Grands Prix. Coincidence???
Edited by mikee boy on Friday 10th October 10:19
davidd said:
hurrah another conspiracy theory, genius...
2 + 2 - 400 = Princess Diana in a spaceship
The engine thing will be a means to get them to cut spending somewhere else, shame about canada though.
D
I take it you are not suggesting that dropping Canada is a cost cutting exercise?2 + 2 - 400 = Princess Diana in a spaceship
The engine thing will be a means to get them to cut spending somewhere else, shame about canada though.
D
Further, I would suggest that the most expensive thing in F1 is change. My interpretation is that the changes are there to remove the manufacturers from F1.
The thing is that in this it is likely to be successful. If they do leave, all but one that is - suggestions as to which would be gratefully received, then they may well set up their own open-wheeled formula. They are unlikely to invest in WSC as the returns and lack of crowds give poor return on the investment. However, what they might do is to invent some form of saloon car racing which will, if the major manufacturers go for it, be the 'senior' series, relegating F1 to a side show.
Further, F1 with just the one, unnamed, manufacturer making the engines would provide little return to that team. If the other manufacturers did concentrate on some other series then even that one would have to move over.
I'm worried about the future of the sport that has fascinated me for 42 years. There have been times of low grids, or poor competition and of scandal and bias. But making F1 into a super Formula Ford seems to me to be the biggest threat ever.
Edited by Derek Smith on Friday 10th October 23:15
Derek Smith said:
davidd said:
hurrah another conspiracy theory, genius...
2 + 2 - 400 = Princess Diana in a spaceship
The engine thing will be a means to get them to cut spending somewhere else, shame about canada though.
D
I take it you are not suggesting that dropping Canada is a cost cutting exercise?2 + 2 - 400 = Princess Diana in a spaceship
The engine thing will be a means to get them to cut spending somewhere else, shame about canada though.
D
Further, I would suggest that the most expensive thing in F1 is change. My interpretation is that the changes are there to remove the manufacturers from F1.
The thing is that in this it is likely to be successful. If they do leave, all but one that is - suggestions as to which would be gratefully received, then they may well set up their own open-wheeled forumla. They are unlikely to invest in WSC as the returns and lake of crowds give poor return on the investment. However, what they might do is to invent some form of saloon car racing which will, if the major manufacturers go for it, be the 'senior' series, relagating F1 to a side show.
Further, F1 with just the one, unnamed, manufacturer making the engines would provide little return to that team. If the other manufacturers did concentrate on some other series then even that one would have to move over.
I'm worried about the future of the sport that has fascinated me for 42 years. There have been times of low grids, or poor competition and of scandal and bias. But making F1 into a super Formula Ford seems to me to be the biggest threat ever.
I'm sure someone will be along in a mo to enlighten me.
D
Plug550 said:
they wish to concentrate on the huge Abu Dabi market by rewarding them with the last race of the season. 
GDP Canada ------------------- 1,265,838,000,000 USDGDP UAE (includes Abu Dhabi) ----167,296,000,000 USD
Population Canada----33,397,000
Population UAE -------5,432,746
Yep its a huge market... lets not get started on Human rights.
If decisions of Mosely/Eccleston make the major manufacturers positions untennable in F1 then I can see them raising a finger to F1 and starting up their own racing series.
Or at least going far enough down that road then Max/Bernie make some concessions in return for the Manufs making concessions of their own!
Or at least going far enough down that road then Max/Bernie make some concessions in return for the Manufs making concessions of their own!
[quote=Derek Smith][quote=davidd]
Further, F1 with just the one, unnamed, manufacturer making the engines would provide little return to that team. If the other manufacturers did concentrate on some other series then even that one would have to move over.
quote]
Hmm... Could someone please remind me which motor manufacturer won the contract to supply engines and chassis to the A1GP Series?
Maybe they could be sole engine supplier to Formula One.
Well, it's one way to guarantee winning the championship!
Further, F1 with just the one, unnamed, manufacturer making the engines would provide little return to that team. If the other manufacturers did concentrate on some other series then even that one would have to move over.
quote]
Hmm... Could someone please remind me which motor manufacturer won the contract to supply engines and chassis to the A1GP Series?
Maybe they could be sole engine supplier to Formula One.
Well, it's one way to guarantee winning the championship!
Plug550 said:
Can't help you there Derek. As confusing as ever, eh? One can only surmise that the Canadian market is now deemed too small for the manufacturers, and they wish to concentrate on the huge Abu Dabi market by rewarding them with the last race of the season.
Lets talk North American market, not Canadian seeing as it's the only race across the pond. Logic fail!This is an interesting take on the issue:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula...
If Honda, BMW and Toyota are not happy about it, presumably, and pretty obviously because the North American markets are key for them, tied in with the changes Mosley is proposing for engines with Mr Ecclestone's support are they trying to get rid of the manufacturers (accepting there is one they are likely to want to keep)? Especially if the comments from Adam Parr of Williams are included in the equation:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula...
What I can't figure or connect is why? What would the benefit to Mosley and Ecclestone be? Sure, I can see they are restricted in the amount of power they have relative to the might of the big car manufacturers - Mosley may see it as getting one over on them, but for Ecclestone it would cutting off his nose to spite his face, and ultimately that would be against the interests of CVC who are actually the owners now. Whilst typing that I realised he may be trying to reduce the value of the holding CVC have so he can buy it back at a bargain price, but surely CVC would notice, wouldn't they?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula...
If Honda, BMW and Toyota are not happy about it, presumably, and pretty obviously because the North American markets are key for them, tied in with the changes Mosley is proposing for engines with Mr Ecclestone's support are they trying to get rid of the manufacturers (accepting there is one they are likely to want to keep)? Especially if the comments from Adam Parr of Williams are included in the equation:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula...
What I can't figure or connect is why? What would the benefit to Mosley and Ecclestone be? Sure, I can see they are restricted in the amount of power they have relative to the might of the big car manufacturers - Mosley may see it as getting one over on them, but for Ecclestone it would cutting off his nose to spite his face, and ultimately that would be against the interests of CVC who are actually the owners now. Whilst typing that I realised he may be trying to reduce the value of the holding CVC have so he can buy it back at a bargain price, but surely CVC would notice, wouldn't they?
Morpeth said:
Plug550 said:
they wish to concentrate on the huge Abu Dabi market by rewarding them with the last race of the season.
GDP Canada ------------------- 1,265,838,000,000 USDGDP UAE (includes Abu Dhabi) ----167,296,000,000 USD
Population Canada----33,397,000
Population UAE -------5,432,746
Yep its a huge market... lets not get started on Human rights.
The amount/% of GDP available to fritter away on things like motorsport (and thus money for Bernie's coffers) complexes in the UAE is far greater than in Canada.
In terms of GDP per person, Canada has a higher figure of around $37000/head, compared to £30000/head in UAE.
It's a question of where your priorities lay. In Canada it's maintaining the infrastructure in a vast country. In the UAE it's buying the latest equipment/weaponry/Rolls Royce/Herman Tilke designed circuit, the rest is just sand & oil wells.
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