Mclaren equal treatment a myth?
Discussion
http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/170927-0/u...
Thats DC claiming to have had equal equipment but not strategy, Alonso claiming all sorts and now Hiekki, lets not mention Senna and Prost Why dont they just admit that 2 drivers both being equal doesnt work and they know it?
Thats DC claiming to have had equal equipment but not strategy, Alonso claiming all sorts and now Hiekki, lets not mention Senna and Prost Why dont they just admit that 2 drivers both being equal doesnt work and they know it?
deevlash said:
http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/170927-0/u...
Thats DC claiming to have had equal equipment but not strategy, Alonso claiming all sorts and now Hiekki, lets not mention Senna and Prost Why dont they just admit that 2 drivers both being equal doesnt work and they know it?
Oh no. You shouldn't have said that Thats DC claiming to have had equal equipment but not strategy, Alonso claiming all sorts and now Hiekki, lets not mention Senna and Prost Why dont they just admit that 2 drivers both being equal doesnt work and they know it?
To suggest that McLaren, the most perfect team in the history of motor racing (which always tells the truth, don't forget) could be less than perfect is sacrilege. And on the Church of McLaren Forum too!
You'll go straight to hell for this
I'd discount DC as he simply was second best IMO, and is just trying to justify why he never took a championship despite being in a top team for most of his career.
Alonso - maybe, but he clearly went there expecting to be un-official number one which was his big mistake IMO. So when it did'nt work out that way he clearly could'nt handle it. Could well believe there was a degree of favouritism there given the relationship between Ron and Lewis.
Alonso - maybe, but he clearly went there expecting to be un-official number one which was his big mistake IMO. So when it did'nt work out that way he clearly could'nt handle it. Could well believe there was a degree of favouritism there given the relationship between Ron and Lewis.
Ecurie Ecosse said:
deevlash said:
http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/170927-0/u...
Thats DC claiming to have had equal equipment but not strategy, Alonso claiming all sorts and now Hiekki, lets not mention Senna and Prost Why dont they just admit that 2 drivers both being equal doesnt work and they know it?
Oh no. You shouldn't have said that Thats DC claiming to have had equal equipment but not strategy, Alonso claiming all sorts and now Hiekki, lets not mention Senna and Prost Why dont they just admit that 2 drivers both being equal doesnt work and they know it?
To suggest that McLaren, the most perfect team in the history of motor racing (which always tells the truth, don't forget) could be less than perfect is sacrilege. And on the Church of McLaren Forum too!
You'll go straight to hell for this
Airbag said:
Ecurie Ecosse said:
deevlash said:
http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/170927-0/u...
Thats DC claiming to have had equal equipment but not strategy, Alonso claiming all sorts and now Hiekki, lets not mention Senna and Prost Why dont they just admit that 2 drivers both being equal doesnt work and they know it?
Oh no. You shouldn't have said that Thats DC claiming to have had equal equipment but not strategy, Alonso claiming all sorts and now Hiekki, lets not mention Senna and Prost Why dont they just admit that 2 drivers both being equal doesnt work and they know it?
To suggest that McLaren, the most perfect team in the history of motor racing (which always tells the truth, don't forget) could be less than perfect is sacrilege. And on the Church of McLaren Forum too!
You'll go straight to hell for this
How about I said something like "Even although DC drove for McLaren for a number of years and Heikki is driving for them now they are wrong and McLaren does have an equal policy because I know better than them, because I just do".
There we go, I should fit in now.
Is that better
Ecurie Ecosse said:
Airbag said:
Ecurie Ecosse said:
deevlash said:
http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/170927-0/u...
Thats DC claiming to have had equal equipment but not strategy, Alonso claiming all sorts and now Hiekki, lets not mention Senna and Prost Why dont they just admit that 2 drivers both being equal doesnt work and they know it?
Oh no. You shouldn't have said that Thats DC claiming to have had equal equipment but not strategy, Alonso claiming all sorts and now Hiekki, lets not mention Senna and Prost Why dont they just admit that 2 drivers both being equal doesnt work and they know it?
To suggest that McLaren, the most perfect team in the history of motor racing (which always tells the truth, don't forget) could be less than perfect is sacrilege. And on the Church of McLaren Forum too!
You'll go straight to hell for this
How about I said something like "Even although DC drove for McLaren for a number of years and Heikki is driving for them now they are wrong and McLaren does have an equal policy because I know better than them, because I just do".
There we go, I should fit in now.
Is that better
Airbag said:
Ecurie Ecosse said:
Airbag said:
Ecurie Ecosse said:
deevlash said:
http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/170927-0/u...
Thats DC claiming to have had equal equipment but not strategy, Alonso claiming all sorts and now Hiekki, lets not mention Senna and Prost Why dont they just admit that 2 drivers both being equal doesnt work and they know it?
Oh no. You shouldn't have said that Thats DC claiming to have had equal equipment but not strategy, Alonso claiming all sorts and now Hiekki, lets not mention Senna and Prost Why dont they just admit that 2 drivers both being equal doesnt work and they know it?
To suggest that McLaren, the most perfect team in the history of motor racing (which always tells the truth, don't forget) could be less than perfect is sacrilege. And on the Church of McLaren Forum too!
You'll go straight to hell for this
How about I said something like "Even although DC drove for McLaren for a number of years and Heikki is driving for them now they are wrong and McLaren does have an equal policy because I know better than them, because I just do".
There we go, I should fit in now.
Is that better
Just reread my last post and it appears to be unduly agumentative. Apologies, it was meant to be in jest.
I can't remember any driver suggesting that they do not get equal machinery at McLaren. Even Alonso admitted that.
Ron Dennis is a team leader. He is responsible for the team. Drivers come and go. All this argument about DC is similar to a mechanic moaning that he wasn't allowed to work on engines just because the bloke who did was better at it than him. In other words, drivers are employees.
From RD's point of view, and every other team manager, the drivers are there to perform a function. It is the team that will go on. Drivers come and go, drift in and drift out. Indeed, Patrick Head I think it was said that he regarded drivers in the same way as any mechanical item that could be bolted in and unbolted if it didn't work.
I would agree that RD should have considered the needs of his drivers in the same way that he would have put bubble wrap around items that would be easily damaged in transit but I was also take note of the fact that the drivers do keep themselves separate from the team, with advisers, managers and sycophants, and perhaps he felt that massaging conceits was a step too far for him. I would also have thought that RD would have employed a pesonel manager to manage the personel.
From what I gathered last season, Alonso had not integrated with McLaren International. The reason for this is unknown. But you can't solely blame McL as it takes two. And from the point of view of a fan who sees teams as the constant and drivers as bit part actors, I would suggest that it was Alonso who should have made the big effort as it was he who was being paid to drive the fastest car on the grid.
RD has the interests of his team foremost in his mind. Of that I am sure. If the drivers' targets coincide then everyone is happy. If they don't then there will be friction. But fricition in equal machinery.
I'm biased I know. To me it is the teams which are the the important bit in GP racing.
Ron Dennis is a team leader. He is responsible for the team. Drivers come and go. All this argument about DC is similar to a mechanic moaning that he wasn't allowed to work on engines just because the bloke who did was better at it than him. In other words, drivers are employees.
From RD's point of view, and every other team manager, the drivers are there to perform a function. It is the team that will go on. Drivers come and go, drift in and drift out. Indeed, Patrick Head I think it was said that he regarded drivers in the same way as any mechanical item that could be bolted in and unbolted if it didn't work.
I would agree that RD should have considered the needs of his drivers in the same way that he would have put bubble wrap around items that would be easily damaged in transit but I was also take note of the fact that the drivers do keep themselves separate from the team, with advisers, managers and sycophants, and perhaps he felt that massaging conceits was a step too far for him. I would also have thought that RD would have employed a pesonel manager to manage the personel.
From what I gathered last season, Alonso had not integrated with McLaren International. The reason for this is unknown. But you can't solely blame McL as it takes two. And from the point of view of a fan who sees teams as the constant and drivers as bit part actors, I would suggest that it was Alonso who should have made the big effort as it was he who was being paid to drive the fastest car on the grid.
RD has the interests of his team foremost in his mind. Of that I am sure. If the drivers' targets coincide then everyone is happy. If they don't then there will be friction. But fricition in equal machinery.
I'm biased I know. To me it is the teams which are the the important bit in GP racing.
must say I am somewhat suppried at the comments (if indead he actually made them....)
things like fuel load etc are (should be?) the decision of the driver and his race engineer, appart from the closing few races (where a support role would be desirable), I personaly find it hard to belive that RD would impose this kind of decision.
HK has just had the best season in F1 of his carear, yes it could/should have been better, but just look at his last year at Renault...
things like fuel load etc are (should be?) the decision of the driver and his race engineer, appart from the closing few races (where a support role would be desirable), I personaly find it hard to belive that RD would impose this kind of decision.
HK has just had the best season in F1 of his carear, yes it could/should have been better, but just look at his last year at Renault...
I'm sure when Heikki proves he can match Lewis in a race he'll be given the chance to go for more wins. It's not as if he qualifies second and takes the lead in the pit stops because he stayed out longer, is it?
And as for DC, well if things were so bad, it took him 9 years to go and they had to push him out of the door!
And as for DC, well if things were so bad, it took him 9 years to go and they had to push him out of the door!
kevin ritson said:
I'm sure when Heikki proves he can match Lewis in a race he'll be given the chance to go for more wins. It's not as if he qualifies second and takes the lead in the pit stops because he stayed out longer, is it?
And as for DC, well if things were so bad, it took him 9 years to go and they had to push him out of the door!
And as for DC, well if things were so bad, it took him 9 years to go and they had to push him out of the door!
Heikki complaining he always has more fuel in q3 than lewis,does'nt the driver have a say in how much fuel goes in his car?if so why does he fuel himself so heavy?
It's hardly mclarens fault that he is'nt on the same level as lewis when it comes to driving is it,and at this stage of the ch'ship he has to play 2nd fiddle to lewis,and he's not doing that very well either
.
I mean i like heikki but .....
It's hardly mclarens fault that he is'nt on the same level as lewis when it comes to driving is it,and at this stage of the ch'ship he has to play 2nd fiddle to lewis,and he's not doing that very well either
.I mean i like heikki but .....
Derek Smith said:
From what I gathered last season, Alonso had not integrated with McLaren International. The reason for this is unknown. But you can't solely blame McL as it takes two. And from the point of view of a fan who sees teams as the constant and drivers as bit part actors, I would suggest that it was Alonso who should have made the big effort as it was he who was being paid to drive the fastest car on the grid.
My impression was that he expected Mclaren to welcome him as some kind of saviour; a number one, someone who brings half a second to a car. When it became apparant he was 'just' another employee, it left a nasty taste in his mouth- especially when you look at how fast his rookie team mate was. It is sad because as a driver, Alonso is undoubtedly the most complete out there.As for equality, take a look at two things: the drivers championship and the Alonso race win in Monaco. Following an entire season's racing Alonso was as close as you can be to his team mate and, in Monaco, should there have been a real favouring of one over the other, Hamilton would have been allowed to race Alonso rather than leaving him to cruise to the win.
I think some of this may have taken out of context by the press so ill wait till i hear a bit more about it, but with this forum been predominantly English then of course heikki will look bad for it because at the end of the day we will all want a home boy to win. i think heikki is better than a lot of people give him credit for but he isnt consistent at the minute and that wont be sorted whilst hes having pressure thanks to his team mate appearing to be perfect.
McLaren have the resources to have 2 equal cars, it's up to the drivers and the engineers to get the car to go quick. If the driver doesn't have a setup that suits him or the engineers are off slightly compared to the others then one car combination will be better. There are too many humans involved to say that both sides of the garage will always be equal no matter how much they try to make sure they are.
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