It becomes clearer - race price fixing
Discussion
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.p...
The organiser of the Canadian GP must come up with £30 million each year for five years: £150,000,000 in total. the circuit owners say that they will get a return on the capital of -50%. i.e. they will lose £15 million per race.
I'm a very keen F1 fan and am devestated that the British GP was moved from Silverstone but I don't see why my taxes should go towards shoring up something which is not financial viable. I resent paying money to the opera houses and events so in this I am, at least, consistent. I was fully supportive of the road improvement around Towcester but that's infrastructure. I certainly don't want any of my money going into Ecc's pockets.
The organiser of the Canadian GP must come up with £30 million each year for five years: £150,000,000 in total. the circuit owners say that they will get a return on the capital of -50%. i.e. they will lose £15 million per race.
I'm a very keen F1 fan and am devestated that the British GP was moved from Silverstone but I don't see why my taxes should go towards shoring up something which is not financial viable. I resent paying money to the opera houses and events so in this I am, at least, consistent. I was fully supportive of the road improvement around Towcester but that's infrastructure. I certainly don't want any of my money going into Ecc's pockets.
Scuffers said:
predictable as ever...
$30M CAD = ~$23.5M USD = £14.75 GPB (at current rates with the £ worth jack s
t)
so, on the face of it, BE is asking the same money from Canada as he was asking from Silverstone.
So, 18 races @ ~£14M a pop = £252M...
Don't forget Bernie also gets the proceeds from trackside advertising. That's one I've never understood.$30M CAD = ~$23.5M USD = £14.75 GPB (at current rates with the £ worth jack s
t)so, on the face of it, BE is asking the same money from Canada as he was asking from Silverstone.
So, 18 races @ ~£14M a pop = £252M...
How can any responsible government can even consider paying £15m to host a F1 weekend considering it's an industry that has vast amounts of cash swilling around and would be entirely viable if not for swingeing fees to the rights holder for no better reason than he can charge what he likes...
No wonder we're getting races in China, Saudi etc with India and Russia in the wings. Expect African and North Korean races soon,
Seems to me that any old despot dictator can now outbid Western countries and hold a prestigious F1 event at the expense of their poverty stricken populace.
Hope you're happy with that Bernie. Trust you sleep soundly. I think it's morally indefensible.
Scuffers said:
predictable as ever...
$30M CAD = ~$23.5M USD = £14.75 GPB (at current rates with the £ worth jack st)
so, on the face of it, BE is asking the same money from Canada as he was asking from Silverstone.
So, 18 races @ ~£14M a pop = £252M...
Wow, £14.75 to hold a GP, I might offer my back garden and a couple of ride on lawnmowers for the British GP then. $30M CAD = ~$23.5M USD = £14.75 GPB (at current rates with the £ worth jack s
t)so, on the face of it, BE is asking the same money from Canada as he was asking from Silverstone.
So, 18 races @ ~£14M a pop = £252M...
But seriously, this is just hopeless. Bernie already has £24 billion doesn't he? Greedy b
d... And why should Donington have to spend so much to be fully up to his & FIA's standards? These are the top 20 drivers in the world, even they should be able to understand my opinion of "get it wrong and you're fked". Keep the narrow track, be good to watch Lewis force Massa into the gravel trap and inevitably the wall at Redgate. Then Felipe could pop off for a pint! (For those who have never been to Donington, there's a pub on the outside of Redgate, the old first corner. I say old because Bernie's lot have forced the pit lane to Starkey's straight (with the Dunlop bridge)OK, let me preface this by saying I'm far from being a fan of the money-grabbing little dwarf, however....
Of the various GPs out there some pay significantly more than others so I think the estimate of annual race fees is at best conservative. From that money, however, the teams are provided with assistance with shipping and logistics for the long-haul races and I assume the prize money is funded by Bernie. Then there's the cost of actually making the GP run smoothly and providing infrastructure such as paddock access, etc., etc. and there are some potentially quite substantial costs being incurred to run the GP.
At-track advertising is usually only there for the sake of the GP and the fact that it's televised and I suspect costs the circuit very little, ergo they shouldn't really expect much out of that because all they're doing is providing the venue for the advertising hoardings.
It's all very easy to assume that everything BE does is tainted with greed (OK, so it mostly is....) but a bit of balance to some of the views and opinions in threads on here doesn't go amiss from time to time, otherwise they come across as being a bit extreme and hence undermine themselves. IMO.
Of the various GPs out there some pay significantly more than others so I think the estimate of annual race fees is at best conservative. From that money, however, the teams are provided with assistance with shipping and logistics for the long-haul races and I assume the prize money is funded by Bernie. Then there's the cost of actually making the GP run smoothly and providing infrastructure such as paddock access, etc., etc. and there are some potentially quite substantial costs being incurred to run the GP.
At-track advertising is usually only there for the sake of the GP and the fact that it's televised and I suspect costs the circuit very little, ergo they shouldn't really expect much out of that because all they're doing is providing the venue for the advertising hoardings.
It's all very easy to assume that everything BE does is tainted with greed (OK, so it mostly is....) but a bit of balance to some of the views and opinions in threads on here doesn't go amiss from time to time, otherwise they come across as being a bit extreme and hence undermine themselves. IMO.
Nick M said:
OK, let me preface this by saying I'm far from being a fan of the money-grabbing little dwarf, however....
Of the various GPs out there some pay significantly more than others so I think the estimate of annual race fees is at best conservative. From that money, however, the teams are provided with assistance with shipping and logistics for the long-haul races and I assume the prize money is funded by Bernie. Then there's the cost of actually making the GP run smoothly and providing infrastructure such as paddock access, etc., etc. and there are some potentially quite substantial costs being incurred to run the GP.
At-track advertising is usually only there for the sake of the GP and the fact that it's televised and I suspect costs the circuit very little, ergo they shouldn't really expect much out of that because all they're doing is providing the venue for the advertising hoardings.
It's all very easy to assume that everything BE does is tainted with greed (OK, so it mostly is....) but a bit of balance to some of the views and opinions in threads on here doesn't go amiss from time to time, otherwise they come across as being a bit extreme and hence undermine themselves. IMO.
I would not disagree with anything that you have said. I would, however, look at it from the other side of the telescope, as it were.Of the various GPs out there some pay significantly more than others so I think the estimate of annual race fees is at best conservative. From that money, however, the teams are provided with assistance with shipping and logistics for the long-haul races and I assume the prize money is funded by Bernie. Then there's the cost of actually making the GP run smoothly and providing infrastructure such as paddock access, etc., etc. and there are some potentially quite substantial costs being incurred to run the GP.
At-track advertising is usually only there for the sake of the GP and the fact that it's televised and I suspect costs the circuit very little, ergo they shouldn't really expect much out of that because all they're doing is providing the venue for the advertising hoardings.
It's all very easy to assume that everything BE does is tainted with greed (OK, so it mostly is....) but a bit of balance to some of the views and opinions in threads on here doesn't go amiss from time to time, otherwise they come across as being a bit extreme and hence undermine themselves. IMO.
Regardless of how much the commercial rights holder has to do (logistics, paddock infrastructure, prize money), it is obvious that at the end of each year the CRH ends up with a 5hitload more money than it started with.
It is also possible that the economy of the catchment area that holds the GP also ends up with a lot more money. Certainly that is what Bernie would like us to believe, and what the consultants advise potential race hosts, so let us assume that that is the truth, although the actual financial benefit, even as an order of magnitude, is impossible to pin down.
The circuit itself, however, loses. The BRDC loses only a bit, but it would lose more if it were not the beneficiary of a legacy that endowed it with a physical plant effectively for no cost. Hockenheim lost so much on a regular basis that they had to go to alternative years - and this in motoring-mad Germany. The French GP at Magny-Cours has been on a financial knife-edge for years. Canada has a similar problem. At Indy, Tony George was willing to some degree to subsidise a GP himself, but not to the extent that Bernie's fees required.
In recent years, the circuits that have got new races, and the ones that will be getting the new races, are the ones that are owned by governments. By uniting the economic interests of the circuit owner with those of the broader community, it seems that an F1 race makes economic sense. The circuits that are suffering are those for which the financial return to itself is separate from the returns to the wider community.
Bernie is entitled to maximise his personal financial return. It's not his problem if most of the older circuits are financially separate from their political regions, whilst those of the newer ones are tied together and they can thus optimise in order to pay him more for a race.
At the same time, we fans are entitled to view him as a soulless thug who fails to recognise that he was lucky enough to have been in the right place at the right time and that he has taken out of motor racing an incomparably greater amount than he ever put into it.
A billionaire is not required to give anything back to his community...but it would be f
king nice if he did.dpbird90 said:
Scuffers said:
predictable as ever...
$30M CAD = ~$23.5M USD = £14.75 GPB (at current rates with the £ worth jack st)
so, on the face of it, BE is asking the same money from Canada as he was asking from Silverstone.
So, 18 races @ ~£14M a pop = £252M...
Wow, £14.75 to hold a GP, I might offer my back garden and a couple of ride on lawnmowers for the British GP then. $30M CAD = ~$23.5M USD = £14.75 GPB (at current rates with the £ worth jack s
t)so, on the face of it, BE is asking the same money from Canada as he was asking from Silverstone.
So, 18 races @ ~£14M a pop = £252M...
But seriously, this is just hopeless. Bernie already has £24 billion doesn't he?
People critise him all the time, and not unreasonably, but he still has a passion for motor racing. Last year he travelled to the Ring with Niki Lauda to visit the spot where he crashed and nearly died. That isn't the sort of thing that somebody with no interest in the history of the sport would bother to do.
So - you already make money out of the "sport" in nearly every conceivable way - but you still want to make more (because it's a challenge, you're greedy, for the fun of it).
Clearly a commercial organisation - a venue owner - is not going to lose money staging an event (at least not for long) - so how can you get a venue to pay you for hosting?
Surely you have to get away from commercially run venues and get an organisations with unlimited funds to intervene. So how?
Offer Grands Prix to 3rd world or up-n-coming governments who will subsidise them purely for the political benefits of running such a high profile, high tech. event which puts the country on the world stage.
It's clever and cynical and despicable.
Why does Bernie have to have all he proceeds - is there not more than enough room for the commercial rights holder, and the teams, and the venues to make some money?
Clearly a commercial organisation - a venue owner - is not going to lose money staging an event (at least not for long) - so how can you get a venue to pay you for hosting?
Surely you have to get away from commercially run venues and get an organisations with unlimited funds to intervene. So how?
Offer Grands Prix to 3rd world or up-n-coming governments who will subsidise them purely for the political benefits of running such a high profile, high tech. event which puts the country on the world stage.
It's clever and cynical and despicable.
Why does Bernie have to have all he proceeds - is there not more than enough room for the commercial rights holder, and the teams, and the venues to make some money?
Lord Croker said:
Last year he travelled to the Ring with Niki Lauda to visit the spot where he crashed and nearly died. That isn't the sort of thing that somebody with no interest in the history of the sport would bother to do.
Well - that was actually done on the weekend of the GP held at the Ring - so not exactly a special trip, was it!Joe911 said:
Lord Croker said:
Last year he travelled to the Ring with Niki Lauda to visit the spot where he crashed and nearly died. That isn't the sort of thing that somebody with no interest in the history of the sport would bother to do.
Well - that was actually done on the weekend of the GP held at the Ring - so not exactly a special trip, was it!
I thought I'd read that it was a special trip. Never mind..!Lord Croker said:
People critise him all the time, and not unreasonably, but he still has a passion for motor racing. Last year he travelled to the Ring with Niki Lauda to visit the spot where he crashed and nearly died. That isn't the sort of thing that somebody with no interest in the history of the sport would bother to do.
If I am mistaken about this, please correct me, but I believe that when Bernie went to the 'ring to visit the site of Lauda's shunt, he:- had flown there on his personal jet, which
- had departed from his personal airport, Biggin Hill,
- which would be the same Biggin Hill that houses his personal collection of classic Formula One cars, reputedly the world's finest such collection, which the public are not allowed to view,
- and he had to be at the Nurburgring at the time anyhow, for the (2006?) European Grand Prix.
- Ergo, his visiting the crash site entailed spending 10 minutes with Lauda doing a lap of the track he was already at.
I'll agree that Bernie has more than zero interest in motor sport, but relative to what appears to be his interest in maximising his own wealth and influence, it's not a lot higher than zero. Nobody could get into bed with Mosley as comprehensively as Bernie has done and still care that much about motor sport.
Cheers.
Lord Croker said:
dpbird90 said:
Scuffers said:
predictable as ever...
$30M CAD = ~$23.5M USD = £14.75 GPB (at current rates with the £ worth jack st)
so, on the face of it, BE is asking the same money from Canada as he was asking from Silverstone.
So, 18 races @ ~£14M a pop = £252M...
Wow, £14.75 to hold a GP, I might offer my back garden and a couple of ride on lawnmowers for the British GP then. $30M CAD = ~$23.5M USD = £14.75 GPB (at current rates with the £ worth jack s
t)so, on the face of it, BE is asking the same money from Canada as he was asking from Silverstone.
So, 18 races @ ~£14M a pop = £252M...
But seriously, this is just hopeless. Bernie already has £24 billion doesn't he?
People critise him all the time, and not unreasonably, but he still has a passion for motor racing. Last year he travelled to the Ring with Niki Lauda to visit the spot where he crashed and nearly died. That isn't the sort of thing that somebody with no interest in the history of the sport would bother to do.
Lord Croker said:
dpbird90 said:
Scuffers said:
predictable as ever...
$30M CAD = ~$23.5M USD = £14.75 GPB (at current rates with the £ worth jack st)
so, on the face of it, BE is asking the same money from Canada as he was asking from Silverstone.
So, 18 races @ ~£14M a pop = £252M...
Wow, £14.75 to hold a GP, I might offer my back garden and a couple of ride on lawnmowers for the British GP then. $30M CAD = ~$23.5M USD = £14.75 GPB (at current rates with the £ worth jack s
t)so, on the face of it, BE is asking the same money from Canada as he was asking from Silverstone.
So, 18 races @ ~£14M a pop = £252M...
But seriously, this is just hopeless. Bernie already has £24 billion doesn't he?
People critise him all the time, and not unreasonably, but he still has a passion for motor racing. Last year he travelled to the Ring with Niki Lauda to visit the spot where he crashed and nearly died. That isn't the sort of thing that somebody with no interest in the history of the sport would bother to do.
Yes, BE has made a large fortune from F1, but most of the proffit goes back to the teams (read the concord agreement), ie. the cct fee's, the TV rights, Advertsing rights, etc etc. in total, this is still peanuts to what the teams combined budgets are..
Good old Bernie,
Not only does he get to continue spreading cancer around the world he gets to starve the children aswell.
No wonder Nazi women beaters are welcomed in the paddock.
You know they say money is the root of all evil and Bernie has more than most.
Death and the smell of death follows Bernie.
Not only does he get to continue spreading cancer around the world he gets to starve the children aswell.
No wonder Nazi women beaters are welcomed in the paddock.
You know they say money is the root of all evil and Bernie has more than most.
Death and the smell of death follows Bernie.
Joe911 said:
Scuffers said:
Yes, BE has made a large fortune from F1, but most of the proffit goes back to the teams (read the concord agreement)
Can we read the concord agreement - is it public?flemke said:
Lord Croker said:
People critise him all the time, and not unreasonably, but he still has a passion for motor racing. Last year he travelled to the Ring with Niki Lauda to visit the spot where he crashed and nearly died. That isn't the sort of thing that somebody with no interest in the history of the sport would bother to do.
If I am mistaken about this, please correct me, but I believe that when Bernie went to the 'ring to visit the site of Lauda's shunt, he:- had flown there on his personal jet, which
- had departed from his personal airport, Biggin Hill,
- which would be the same Biggin Hill that houses his personal collection of classic Formula One cars, reputedly the world's finest such collection, which the public are not allowed to view,
- and he had to be at the Nurburgring at the time anyhow, for the (2006?) European Grand Prix.
- Ergo, his visiting the crash site entailed spending 10 minutes with Lauda doing a lap of the track he was already at.
I'll agree that Bernie has more than zero interest in motor sport, but relative to what appears to be his interest in maximising his own wealth and influence, it's not a lot higher than zero. Nobody could get into bed with Mosley as comprehensively as Bernie has done and still care that much about motor sport.
Cheers.
garycat said:
Joe911 said:
Scuffers said:
Yes, BE has made a large fortune from F1, but most of the proffit goes back to the teams (read the concord agreement)
Can we read the concord agreement - is it public?Scuffers said:
Lord Croker said:
dpbird90 said:
Scuffers said:
predictable as ever...
$30M CAD = ~$23.5M USD = £14.75 GPB (at current rates with the £ worth jack st)
so, on the face of it, BE is asking the same money from Canada as he was asking from Silverstone.
So, 18 races @ ~£14M a pop = £252M...
Wow, £14.75 to hold a GP, I might offer my back garden and a couple of ride on lawnmowers for the British GP then. $30M CAD = ~$23.5M USD = £14.75 GPB (at current rates with the £ worth jack s
t)so, on the face of it, BE is asking the same money from Canada as he was asking from Silverstone.
So, 18 races @ ~£14M a pop = £252M...
But seriously, this is just hopeless. Bernie already has £24 billion doesn't he?
People critise him all the time, and not unreasonably, but he still has a passion for motor racing. Last year he travelled to the Ring with Niki Lauda to visit the spot where he crashed and nearly died. That isn't the sort of thing that somebody with no interest in the history of the sport would bother to do.
Yes, BE has made a large fortune from F1, but most of the proffit goes back to the teams (read the concord agreement), ie. the cct fee's, the TV rights, Advertsing rights, etc etc. in total, this is still peanuts to what the teams combined budgets are..
The teams' gripe for some time has been that, of all the commercial rights holder's income (circuit fees, broadcasting fees, hospitality fees and on-track advertising), 47% of the broadcasting fees and none of the circuit fees, hospitality fees and on-track advertising (which is a multi-hundred million dollar p.a. stream in itself) goes to them.
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