RE: X-Bow Race Replicas Ready To Order
Tuesday 28th October 2008
Just in case your X-Bow was too comfortableKTM has announced an €82,900 price tag for its highly anticipated GT4-spec ‘Race’ replica – along with a new Customer Racing Concept so owners can go head-to-head on European race tracks in 2009.
X-Bow Race Replicas Ready To Order
KTM release race package for X-Bow
Just in case your X-Bow was too comfortable
The X-Bow race is a customer version of the car that has cleaned up in the GT4 Sports Light category this year. Modifications are mainly safety-related and include steel rollover bars in place of aluminium and additional side impact protection. Other trick bits and pieces include extended side headrests for additional driver support, a carbon fibre screen extension for telemetry installations, a quick fill fuel system, low-drag airbox and a fire extinguisher system. If you really want a hardcore track day chariot, you can pay extra for items such as an easy-rescue driver seat shell, fitted airjacks and 2D data logging system with software.
Once kitted-up with with the car, owners will doubtless want to prove their mettle on the track – so KTM is inaugurating its Racing Concept. For around €3,000 per race, customers can take part in the KTM X-Bow Super Sport Cup in 2009. This will be a special points league for X-Bow ‘Race’ owners taking part in existing European GT4 events – where your €3,000 Euros will get you full factory technical support at the track. There’ll be a final race at the end of the season for the title KTM X-Bow Super Sport Cup Champion – and in future years KTM says it hopes to extend the challenge to the US and Middle East.
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Discussion
Wheres my cheque book!! I Wish.....
I REALY want one! i mean why wouldnt you? Superlight, great handeling mental car coupled to a very easily tune-able VAG turbo engine!! Spend a few grand tuning that bad boy and it would eat ferrari 430 scud's for breaky, cus at the moment isnt it only running 225Bhp? you can easily see 500Bhp out of those lumps with the right tweaks, might corrupt the handeling tho! 
general190 said:
I REALY want one! i mean why wouldnt you? Superlight, great handeling mental car coupled to a very easily tune-able VAG turbo engine!! Spend a few grand tuning that bad boy and it would eat ferrari 430 scud's for breaky, cus at the moment isnt it only running 225Bhp? you can easily see 500Bhp out of those lumps with the right tweaks, might corrupt the handeling tho!
But it's not Superlight it's effin heavy that's it's problem (and the price). A 10k kit car (Caterham, Westfield etc) will run rings around it on the track and you can enter an entire championship season for the 3000euros a race this costs. Only for poseurs this one.BTW, upping the power to 500bhp will have no effect on handling, it's chassis, aero, tyres etc that will do that.
You guys should try this thing.. It is absolutely unbelievable.. nothing to do with a car, if you are a biker you'll know how it feels, otherwise you never drove anything like this.
This weekend... mountain road in Austria, gallardo, 911 and me... 2 turns and they didnt see me anymore.. if you dont believe, go in the classifieds and look up ktm.. its just pure speed.
This weekend... mountain road in Austria, gallardo, 911 and me... 2 turns and they didnt see me anymore.. if you dont believe, go in the classifieds and look up ktm.. its just pure speed.
custardtart said:
general190 said:
I REALY want one! i mean why wouldnt you? Superlight, great handeling mental car coupled to a very easily tune-able VAG turbo engine!! Spend a few grand tuning that bad boy and it would eat ferrari 430 scud's for breaky, cus at the moment isnt it only running 225Bhp? you can easily see 500Bhp out of those lumps with the right tweaks, might corrupt the handeling tho!
But it's not Superlight it's effin heavy that's it's problem (and the price). A 10k kit car (Caterham, Westfield etc) will run rings around it on the track and you can enter an entire championship season for the 3000euros a race this costs. Only for poseurs this one.BTW, upping the power to 500bhp will have no effect on handling, it's chassis, aero, tyres etc that will do that.
The fundamentals of the handeling will be the same, but the extra power will spin thw wheels more readily and ferociously thus reducing the grip you have at that point.
Ok, so its no R500 superlight but its still light by car standards, and, as KTM's first ever car i think its a pritty good shot! I like the way it looks and the way it goes, but. . . . . . .
What I think they should have done is strapped two of their V-twins together from their RC8 superbike, would give 304bhp and be lighter and sound simply amazing!!
custardtart said:
But it's not Superlight it's effin heavy that's it's problem (and the price). A 10k kit car (Caterham, Westfield etc) will run rings around it on the track and you can enter an entire championship season for the 3000euros a race this costs. Only for poseurs this one. BTW, upping the power to 500bhp will have no effect on handling, it's chassis, aero, tyres etc that will do that.
What a lot of nonsense! The dry weight is around 700 kilos and the structural integrity is orders of magnitude greater than Caterhams and Ariels. The car has been crash tested and approved to FIA standard.
Your assertion that a £10K kit car run rings around it on the track is not credible. A standard X-Bow laps Silverstone GP in around 2.05 on trackday rubber. What £10K kit car can match let alone beat that time?
Your comment on the €3k race support cost again is interesting. When you consider that this fee includes all the logistics on race day, including transport, race service, spare parts, hospitality, tyres, fuel, driver and team equipment, many people would conclude that it excellent value for an FIA backed race series at major circuits like Silverstone, Spa and Monza.
That fact you think the X-Bow is only for poseurs serves to highlight your ignorance of the intended purpose of the customers who are buying it and of the X-Bow's unique attributes, one of which is the fact it generates significant downforce at speed and yet remains road legal/usable/practical.
Edited by ScottL on Wednesday 29th October 14:22
ScottL said:
custardtart said:
But it's not Superlight it's effin heavy that's it's problem (and the price). A 10k kit car (Caterham, Westfield etc) will run rings around it on the track and you can enter an entire championship season for the 3000euros a race this costs. Only for poseurs this one. BTW, upping the power to 500bhp will have no effect on handling, it's chassis, aero, tyres etc that will do that.
What a lot of nonsense! The dry weight is around 700 kilos and the structural integrity is orders of magnitude greater than Caterhams and Ariels. The car has been crash tested and approved to FIA standard.
Your assertion that a £10K kit car run rings around it on the track is not credible. A standard X-Bow laps Silverstone GP in around 2.05 on trackday rubber. What £10K kit car can match let alone beat that time?
Your comment on the €3k race support cost again is interesting. When you consider that this fee includes all the logistics on race day, including transport, race service, spare parts, hospitality, tyres, fuel, driver and team equipment, many people would conclude that it excellent value for an FIA backed race series at major circuits like Silverstone, Spa and Monza.
That fact you think the X-Bow is only for poseurs serves to highlight your ignorance of the intended purpose of the customers who are buying it and of the X-Bow's unique attributes, one of which is the fact it generates significant downforce at speed and yet remains road legal/usable/practical.
Edited by ScottL on Wednesday 29th October 14:22
TBH you're right that not just poseurs might want one, after all, I expect vanity plays a part in most peoples car buying process. However, it's not nonesene that it's not superlight, it's just plain fact. The KTM website has it at 790kg (not 700kg) which for a minimalist car with a carbon fibre chassis does seem heavy. I guess that might be down to the structural integrity and need to conform to crash testing legislation but it still doesn't make it a true lightweight. In fact it's probably 100bhp+ per ton down on an R400 or Westy Speedsport so it would need to see a huge amount of downforce from the aero effect to pull that back and I think when it was pitched against cars like Caterham, Atom etc it got whipped
"All of the above would lose the KTM some time compared with an R500, but the clincher is that the X-Bow just isn’t as fast in a straight line, as you can see from the graph on the right" taken from EVO
I think EVO suspected the car they'd been given actually had closer to 300bhp rather than the 237bhp a standard car would have.
Also, the fact remains, you can get a season's worth of entries into a championship to race faster cars for the same amount it costs for one race in a KTM - not nonesense but fact. The article above doesn't give the details that you have regarding what you get for the 3K so if you are correct (unlike with the dry weight and the whole speed thing
) there is indeed more value than initially meets the eye. 
It's good to have this car, choice is a wonderful thing, but lets not get carried away here, it's 85K, it's not that light and if you turn up to a track day that also has a smattering of Caterhams etc, don't be surprised if you're not the fastest thing out there.
There's a alot of strong views flying around here, so I will try to be objective:
Fact: Caterhams have been racing for years, all the way back to the original Lotus design that they were based on. Their crash reliability is excellent and this has been proved countless times over many years in real race conditions by many drivers, including me. AFAIK no Caterham has been put through an FIA crash test as the manufacturer has not attempted to place cars in any race series (eg FIA GT) that requires it so why spend the money. KTM wish to run in GT so require that test for the X-Bow. However the real life crash integrity of the X-Bow has barely been tested as this is the first season. That isn't a problem as I'm sure it is a well designed and constructed car, but the assertion that "structural integrity is orders of magnitude greater than Caterhams" is fanciful.
Opinion: I wouldn't race a X-Bow as I personally feel the roll over protection is inadequate - I like the full roll cage on my Caterham.
Opinion: whether a £10k Caterham would be faster is going to depend on the spec and condition. However a tatty but functional race CSR could probably be bought for less than £20k...
Fact: an R500 or a CSR260 is likely to be every bit as as quick as an Xbow under most conditions. While they lack downforce, they have more power and alot less weight. They cost alot less too. I have race times for a CSR at quite a few circuits, but not Silverstone GP. If anyone has times for a X-bow at other circuits then I may be able to provide a comparison, e.g. Donington, Spa, Brands, Magny Cours.
Fact: 3k Euros per meeting ain't a bad cost at all for full support and transport. Similar to the costs of e.g. running a Caterham at Spa using one of the typical Caterham race teams. Clearly it is alot more than running your own car at a UK club meeting. Chalk and cheese.
Opinion: Caterhams & X-bows appear to be aimed at different markets if the purchase price and avaialble race series are anything to go by. Could you get something faster for X-bow money? Yes, see Radical for details. Could you get something just as quick for less? Yes, see Caterham. However if you want to race in GT and the X-bow floats your boat then I can imagine its alot of fun.
Opinion: a road legal Caterham has a boot and a hood which makes it more usable/practical than a X-bow, not necessarily more fun, but more practical.
Opinion: The X-bow is fugly, Caterhams aren't exactly beautiful either!
Fact: Caterhams have been racing for years, all the way back to the original Lotus design that they were based on. Their crash reliability is excellent and this has been proved countless times over many years in real race conditions by many drivers, including me. AFAIK no Caterham has been put through an FIA crash test as the manufacturer has not attempted to place cars in any race series (eg FIA GT) that requires it so why spend the money. KTM wish to run in GT so require that test for the X-Bow. However the real life crash integrity of the X-Bow has barely been tested as this is the first season. That isn't a problem as I'm sure it is a well designed and constructed car, but the assertion that "structural integrity is orders of magnitude greater than Caterhams" is fanciful.
Opinion: I wouldn't race a X-Bow as I personally feel the roll over protection is inadequate - I like the full roll cage on my Caterham.
Opinion: whether a £10k Caterham would be faster is going to depend on the spec and condition. However a tatty but functional race CSR could probably be bought for less than £20k...
Fact: an R500 or a CSR260 is likely to be every bit as as quick as an Xbow under most conditions. While they lack downforce, they have more power and alot less weight. They cost alot less too. I have race times for a CSR at quite a few circuits, but not Silverstone GP. If anyone has times for a X-bow at other circuits then I may be able to provide a comparison, e.g. Donington, Spa, Brands, Magny Cours.
Fact: 3k Euros per meeting ain't a bad cost at all for full support and transport. Similar to the costs of e.g. running a Caterham at Spa using one of the typical Caterham race teams. Clearly it is alot more than running your own car at a UK club meeting. Chalk and cheese.
Opinion: Caterhams & X-bows appear to be aimed at different markets if the purchase price and avaialble race series are anything to go by. Could you get something faster for X-bow money? Yes, see Radical for details. Could you get something just as quick for less? Yes, see Caterham. However if you want to race in GT and the X-bow floats your boat then I can imagine its alot of fun.
Opinion: a road legal Caterham has a boot and a hood which makes it more usable/practical than a X-bow, not necessarily more fun, but more practical.
Opinion: The X-bow is fugly, Caterhams aren't exactly beautiful either!
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