Britcar 24 on Sky
Discussion
Literally just finished watching the 24 Hour coverage on Sky & felt compelled to write something.
Whilst not always 100% accurate - it must be difficult to tell a story of 24 hours in one hour - I thought the programme captured the atmosphere, excitement & drama of the race extremely well. And as sponsors we got good coverage, which makes it worthwhile for us also.
But more than anything the story of the crash, and Andy Neate's recovery was told with compassion & feeling. Very moving.
Well done to all involved - best coverage yet.
And following on from Claire's note about the date for 2009, lets hope JT & team can resolved all the bulls**t with Silverstone and get it on in October. It's a very special race.
Andy
i also have just watched the programe on sky and i must say i found it very intresting, even though it didnt show that much racing on track, like the british gt programes, i found hour went really quickly and really kept my interest. i go and watch quite a bit of gt racing but have never been to a britcar event but as a result of watching this programe i will try to get to some next year
I'd have to say I think the quality of the programme was quite poor. The content was there and as said, Andy's crash was handled well, but above all I think anybody who finished deserved a place board at the end rather than just the top ten, a lot of the class podiums were lower than tenth!
I'd of thought there would be enough onboard cameras to have used some footage to enhance the on track stuff.
If there was anybody there who saw me driving (Integra 65) could you drop a note to my wife who's now wondering where I was that weekend
I'd of thought there would be enough onboard cameras to have used some footage to enhance the on track stuff.
If there was anybody there who saw me driving (Integra 65) could you drop a note to my wife who's now wondering where I was that weekend
Well I've watched the coverage now. It appears our car wasn't actually in the race at all. If I'd known that in advance I could have had the weekend at home instead of on the pit wall.
Tell you what though, Beechdean Andrew gives GREAT interviews. I love his enthusiasm (and his ice cream).
Tell you what though, Beechdean Andrew gives GREAT interviews. I love his enthusiasm (and his ice cream).
Reports from the past, ie non live TV coverage are incredibly important as they serve a number of purposes.
To the competitors they allow re-living of the event for posterity.
To sponsors and potential sponsors they form a large part of the reason they sign the cheque.
Most importantly to the series organiser they raise the profile of their events encouraging new entrants and ultimately increasing the value of their business. Bernie E. recognised that very early on.
Like all life's good things it requires effort and britcar needs to mange it's tv production company very closely. Britcar needs to tell them who to film, which stories need covering in the paddock, who the characters are and the general storyline of the championship. They then need to provide the company with an outline script of the race on which to "hang" the rushes (raw footage shot on the day).
Otherwise theproduction company who have little or no knowledge of the ins and outs of Britcar will simply take the path of least resistant and least effort. They will follow the front 2 or 3 cars overall together with any crashes or spins.
Ultimately the quality of tv coverage depends on how seriously you want Britcar to be seen and how high a profile you want it to have.
Ultimately a cleverly put together series of programs could launch Britcar to a national level with people not even interested in motorsport addicted to the characters and goings on in the fly on the wall coverage.
Just my humble opinion.
Henry
To the competitors they allow re-living of the event for posterity.
To sponsors and potential sponsors they form a large part of the reason they sign the cheque.
Most importantly to the series organiser they raise the profile of their events encouraging new entrants and ultimately increasing the value of their business. Bernie E. recognised that very early on.
Like all life's good things it requires effort and britcar needs to mange it's tv production company very closely. Britcar needs to tell them who to film, which stories need covering in the paddock, who the characters are and the general storyline of the championship. They then need to provide the company with an outline script of the race on which to "hang" the rushes (raw footage shot on the day).
Otherwise theproduction company who have little or no knowledge of the ins and outs of Britcar will simply take the path of least resistant and least effort. They will follow the front 2 or 3 cars overall together with any crashes or spins.
Ultimately the quality of tv coverage depends on how seriously you want Britcar to be seen and how high a profile you want it to have.
Ultimately a cleverly put together series of programs could launch Britcar to a national level with people not even interested in motorsport addicted to the characters and goings on in the fly on the wall coverage.
Just my humble opinion.
Henry
What are (some of) you guys moaning about?
Since the show, the bloke who owns the car I drove has been inundated with requests to enter next year's event despite the fact that our car was only seen at best, fleetingly.....twice....for about one second.
I suppose it's all about what your sponsors' expectations are and if you are able to meet them. In our case, they got no more or less than they were expecting and so came away happy because everyone had such a great time on the day.
For me, it gave me a greater insight into the world of professional/semi-professional racing and lots of tips on how to do it better the next time!
The TV coverage did it's job. Roll on October! 'Can't bloody wait!
Since the show, the bloke who owns the car I drove has been inundated with requests to enter next year's event despite the fact that our car was only seen at best, fleetingly.....twice....for about one second.
I suppose it's all about what your sponsors' expectations are and if you are able to meet them. In our case, they got no more or less than they were expecting and so came away happy because everyone had such a great time on the day.
For me, it gave me a greater insight into the world of professional/semi-professional racing and lots of tips on how to do it better the next time!
The TV coverage did it's job. Roll on October! 'Can't bloody wait!
Edited by tim stanbridge on Sunday 9th November 12:05
Edited by tim stanbridge on Sunday 9th November 15:12
Edited by tim stanbridge on Sunday 9th November 15:15
Dear All,
Thankyou for the comments of the Britcar 24 programme this year. Firstly i would like to point out that although i appeared as a presenter of the programme, i was no way involved in the edit of the show, however i would like to point out 1 thing.
In reply to Henry, Pitlane Productions who film the Britcar and have done since its inception know a huge amount about the ins and outs of the series and are very experienced in Motorsport Broadcasting. They have covered the 24 Hours every year as well as the Nurburgring24 and Le Mans24 not to mention ALMS etc
To the show, Pitlane are given a budget, this limits the amount of cameras, presenters and edit time and also how long the show is. Last year it was 2 hours, but before then it was only 1. this year it was 1
I believe there was about 10 hours of footage to be edited into 47 mins of programme. Because of the lack of cameras, The idea was to convey the atmosphere of the race, there was never a possibility with the lack of TV time, to be able to accurately show the race. According to your comments it worked.
Therefore if you count the amount of race time, it was about 25mins, very difficult to show every car in that time.
I agree with a lot of your comments, but it was just never going to be possible to make everyone happy.
Regards
Ben Constanduros
Thankyou for the comments of the Britcar 24 programme this year. Firstly i would like to point out that although i appeared as a presenter of the programme, i was no way involved in the edit of the show, however i would like to point out 1 thing.
In reply to Henry, Pitlane Productions who film the Britcar and have done since its inception know a huge amount about the ins and outs of the series and are very experienced in Motorsport Broadcasting. They have covered the 24 Hours every year as well as the Nurburgring24 and Le Mans24 not to mention ALMS etc
To the show, Pitlane are given a budget, this limits the amount of cameras, presenters and edit time and also how long the show is. Last year it was 2 hours, but before then it was only 1. this year it was 1
I believe there was about 10 hours of footage to be edited into 47 mins of programme. Because of the lack of cameras, The idea was to convey the atmosphere of the race, there was never a possibility with the lack of TV time, to be able to accurately show the race. According to your comments it worked.
Therefore if you count the amount of race time, it was about 25mins, very difficult to show every car in that time.
I agree with a lot of your comments, but it was just never going to be possible to make everyone happy.
Regards
Ben Constanduros
Henry, I fear that you re not aware of what goes on in the background whilst you are busy doing the important business of driving your race.
I always liaise with Sky crew before the race - Myma Seldon, particularly, always asked me what the hot stories were, and who she should be talking to. Andrew Marriott is always sent a copy of my race report, and I know he uses it, because he has occasionally quoted parts of it verbatim in his commentary. I was telephoned on the evening that Andrew put together his commentary over the 24-hour edit, and asked who gave notable performances, and should receive special mention, though maybe they just didn't have the footage of certain cars.
So you see, we do involve ourselves to a great extent, before, during, and after the event, though I have no input into what is edited and broadcast.
Of course, I recognise the need fot continuous improvement, and will endeavour to increase my involvement and guidance - if they let me - whatever the future holds for TV coverage in Britcar.
I always liaise with Sky crew before the race - Myma Seldon, particularly, always asked me what the hot stories were, and who she should be talking to. Andrew Marriott is always sent a copy of my race report, and I know he uses it, because he has occasionally quoted parts of it verbatim in his commentary. I was telephoned on the evening that Andrew put together his commentary over the 24-hour edit, and asked who gave notable performances, and should receive special mention, though maybe they just didn't have the footage of certain cars.
So you see, we do involve ourselves to a great extent, before, during, and after the event, though I have no input into what is edited and broadcast.
Of course, I recognise the need fot continuous improvement, and will endeavour to increase my involvement and guidance - if they let me - whatever the future holds for TV coverage in Britcar.
If it`s money that limits the quality and depth of the show, and I`m talking for the Britcar programmes I`ve seen this year, (rather than the 24 hour coverage), there is little if any depth beyond the top 3 finishers overall.
more money needs to be found. Up to now James has sought to find that from individual competitors. I can see the top 3 or 4 teams keen to throw more money in the pot, class 2 and 3 cars will have little interest in supporting something that doesn`t touch them. Things will get even worse next year with a mosler "race within a race" at the head of the field.
But why wouldn`t the series organisers want to find the budget? Think about it. It`s an investment that could reap huge rewards in terms of profile of your events and ultimately the value of your company. I`d give my eye teeth for a TV production company that wanted to film my business and put it out on one hour slots. Obviously selling used cars doesn`t have quite the appeal of so fine machinery racing tooth and nail supported by wonderful characters pre and post race in the paddock.
Never mind trying to put on some form of "hospitality" package. Teams with half a dozen or more crew are always going to sort themselves out. If you want to throw a couple of beers in one of the garages for everyone fine, but swap that hospitality budget to the promotion account and Bob`s your uncle.
Certainly nothing I`ve seen featuring Britcar this year (haven`t seen the 24 hour race) would compel me to dip my hand into my pocket for TV next year, and as already said I fear it`s only going to get worse.
Henry
edited to say:
I was typing as you had posted James.
I don`t see broadband as a viable alternative. If you provide quality programming I`m not sure it`s finding a broadcaster that`s the hard part. In it`s current format the Britcar programming will have a limited appeal and for that reason you may be finding it hard to bring to air. Broadcasters pay for content, if you allow them free use of good quality programmes they`ll bite your hand off.
H.
more money needs to be found. Up to now James has sought to find that from individual competitors. I can see the top 3 or 4 teams keen to throw more money in the pot, class 2 and 3 cars will have little interest in supporting something that doesn`t touch them. Things will get even worse next year with a mosler "race within a race" at the head of the field.
But why wouldn`t the series organisers want to find the budget? Think about it. It`s an investment that could reap huge rewards in terms of profile of your events and ultimately the value of your company. I`d give my eye teeth for a TV production company that wanted to film my business and put it out on one hour slots. Obviously selling used cars doesn`t have quite the appeal of so fine machinery racing tooth and nail supported by wonderful characters pre and post race in the paddock.
Never mind trying to put on some form of "hospitality" package. Teams with half a dozen or more crew are always going to sort themselves out. If you want to throw a couple of beers in one of the garages for everyone fine, but swap that hospitality budget to the promotion account and Bob`s your uncle.
Certainly nothing I`ve seen featuring Britcar this year (haven`t seen the 24 hour race) would compel me to dip my hand into my pocket for TV next year, and as already said I fear it`s only going to get worse.
Henry
edited to say:
I was typing as you had posted James.
I don`t see broadband as a viable alternative. If you provide quality programming I`m not sure it`s finding a broadcaster that`s the hard part. In it`s current format the Britcar programming will have a limited appeal and for that reason you may be finding it hard to bring to air. Broadcasters pay for content, if you allow them free use of good quality programmes they`ll bite your hand off.
H.
Edited by Henry-F on Monday 10th November 09:18
FIA and SRO have a decent budget and a very comprehensive website which I`ve just visited for the first time. Nowhere on there can I find any form of video download bar a rather small screen snip of a bike ride round the track.
If you stream coverage live how does one record this coverage and distribute it to the masses? Hopefully it`s easier than putting a FAT 16 file on an SD card for the data loggers which I haven`t actually managed to do, a shame as I was going to use the logger for data logging the other day
I really do struggle to believe that if you approach certain broadcasters with high quality copyright free material they will not air it for free. Hell, if it comes to it buy a channel (or off peak segment of a channel) yourself. Then you can offset any costs by charging other race series with lesser quality material a nominal amount to air their programming hence a no cost to yourselves solution.
I don`t think we`re trying to catch a few dozen Britcar fans who can`t attend a race but who want to see a race live from their home or office, we`re trying to catch the masses and raise Britcar`s profile, increase it`s value and profitability and secure it`s future as the number one choice for those looking to go racing.
Taking on the 24 hour race was a decision most thought impossible, un-economic and a pipe dream. It happened. There are lots of reasons why a series of programmes featuring Britcar that captures the imagination of viewers and makes it to terrestrial UK TV ought never to happen. All it takes is foresight, courage, belief in what you`re doing, and a light sprinkling of insanity
Henry
If you stream coverage live how does one record this coverage and distribute it to the masses? Hopefully it`s easier than putting a FAT 16 file on an SD card for the data loggers which I haven`t actually managed to do, a shame as I was going to use the logger for data logging the other day
I really do struggle to believe that if you approach certain broadcasters with high quality copyright free material they will not air it for free. Hell, if it comes to it buy a channel (or off peak segment of a channel) yourself. Then you can offset any costs by charging other race series with lesser quality material a nominal amount to air their programming hence a no cost to yourselves solution.
I don`t think we`re trying to catch a few dozen Britcar fans who can`t attend a race but who want to see a race live from their home or office, we`re trying to catch the masses and raise Britcar`s profile, increase it`s value and profitability and secure it`s future as the number one choice for those looking to go racing.
Taking on the 24 hour race was a decision most thought impossible, un-economic and a pipe dream. It happened. There are lots of reasons why a series of programmes featuring Britcar that captures the imagination of viewers and makes it to terrestrial UK TV ought never to happen. All it takes is foresight, courage, belief in what you`re doing, and a light sprinkling of insanity
Henry
Re: the btcc championship - watch this space. There was a spin off program that followed mike and andy Jordan. A great program and it wouldn't surprise me if it is developed.
How are DVDs going to spread the word? If only 50,000 people get to see a program at obscure o'clock in the morning it's 50-100 times more than will be seen via DVD distrbution. Didn't JT once tell us there were going to be 600million viewers of the britcar programmes worldwide? You can easily record tv shows on video, DVD or more commonly hard drive (sky plus). With a lesser Channel you can repeat to your heart's content. You can also pick when you want to buy the spare capacity.
You can come up with all the excuses in the world ( as people had done for the 24 hour race) or you can get on and find that seemingly impossible solution. I have some ideas but it isn't my championship or indeed my chosen career path.
Anyway I wish you good luck success and increased publicity with your chosen solution.
H.
How are DVDs going to spread the word? If only 50,000 people get to see a program at obscure o'clock in the morning it's 50-100 times more than will be seen via DVD distrbution. Didn't JT once tell us there were going to be 600million viewers of the britcar programmes worldwide? You can easily record tv shows on video, DVD or more commonly hard drive (sky plus). With a lesser Channel you can repeat to your heart's content. You can also pick when you want to buy the spare capacity.
You can come up with all the excuses in the world ( as people had done for the 24 hour race) or you can get on and find that seemingly impossible solution. I have some ideas but it isn't my championship or indeed my chosen career path.
Anyway I wish you good luck success and increased publicity with your chosen solution.
H.
I can think of at least one TV production company owner who has raced in Britcar this year. If it were me I'd be seeking him out and exploring options. I'll do you £15k of entry fees for 1p if you do me £50k of TV production for £35k... there is usually more than one way of skinning a cat. Perhaps they already do that?
I agree with Henry, the advent of hard drive recorders means broadcasting at 3am on channel 5210 (that's made up by the way, so please don't anyone come back and tell me that's a Lumberjack Porn channel) is not the disadvantage it was.
I suspect that the next few years will see technology like BBC's i player become more and more prominent - the delivery of the programming will be less important - we'll be choosing what we watch when we want to watch it, rather than having the scheduled service we currently have. The promotion of what is available will become key.
For now though, the dominant delivery mechanism is scheduled TV broadcasting, and I think if Britcar wants to raise its profile, it needs some programming out there.
I agree with Henry, the advent of hard drive recorders means broadcasting at 3am on channel 5210 (that's made up by the way, so please don't anyone come back and tell me that's a Lumberjack Porn channel) is not the disadvantage it was.
I suspect that the next few years will see technology like BBC's i player become more and more prominent - the delivery of the programming will be less important - we'll be choosing what we watch when we want to watch it, rather than having the scheduled service we currently have. The promotion of what is available will become key.
For now though, the dominant delivery mechanism is scheduled TV broadcasting, and I think if Britcar wants to raise its profile, it needs some programming out there.
I don't think Britcar gets some of the basics right. The website could be vastly improved - its better than it was, but its still difficult to find things even when you are familiar with it.
Go on it right now and after you've realised that www.britcar.co.uk, is a website that sells motoring gifts you are greeted by an absolute mass of words, the biggest trumpeting the provisional date of the 2009 24hrs.
You find a link in font size 9 for the next event, "Brands (Indy Night) 15th November". Click on that and there is minimal info on a race that was cancelled, and minimal info on this race. I gleaned that it was on the 15th, and a 90 minute race. At a location called Brands (Indy Night). There is no further information - nothing on what time it starts, what is racing, how much are tickets, where I can get tickets from.
If you click on 'Click here to discuss on forum', thinking you might get more info, you go back to the home page. Which is more than the 'Back' button ever does - why is the site configured so the back button doesn't work?!!
Does the website encourage me to go and watch the race.....?
I think things were a bit better on the website for the 24 - but these are not difficult things to do for each and every race....
Go on it right now and after you've realised that www.britcar.co.uk, is a website that sells motoring gifts you are greeted by an absolute mass of words, the biggest trumpeting the provisional date of the 2009 24hrs.
You find a link in font size 9 for the next event, "Brands (Indy Night) 15th November". Click on that and there is minimal info on a race that was cancelled, and minimal info on this race. I gleaned that it was on the 15th, and a 90 minute race. At a location called Brands (Indy Night). There is no further information - nothing on what time it starts, what is racing, how much are tickets, where I can get tickets from.
If you click on 'Click here to discuss on forum', thinking you might get more info, you go back to the home page. Which is more than the 'Back' button ever does - why is the site configured so the back button doesn't work?!!
Does the website encourage me to go and watch the race.....?
I think things were a bit better on the website for the 24 - but these are not difficult things to do for each and every race....
teamHOLDENracing said:
I agree with Henry, the advent of hard drive recorders means broadcasting at 3am on channel 5210 (that's made up by the way, so please don't anyone come back and tell me that's a Lumberjack Porn channel) is not the disadvantage it was.
You already knew that anyway!I would have thought an awful lot of motorsports fans record stuff on SkyPlus these days. We're quite used to things being on in the middle of the night and sit flicking through the schedules working out what to record (after finishing the lumberjack porn)
[quote=Britcar David]
According to the BBC in excess of 1000,000,000 people world wide have seen the 2007 Britcar 24hrs on Top Gear, thats 40% more than you say JT promised and what did it get for us? 10 less cars on the grid and 12k spectators through the gate and the 24hrs barely broke even. [quote]
Low grids are a separate issue and not related to TV coverage.
According to the BBC in excess of 1000,000,000 people world wide have seen the 2007 Britcar 24hrs on Top Gear, thats 40% more than you say JT promised and what did it get for us? 10 less cars on the grid and 12k spectators through the gate and the 24hrs barely broke even. [quote]
Low grids are a separate issue and not related to TV coverage.
There is a lot of conflicting information about the cost of TV coverage, let me try and give you the basics.
My research to date reveals that a 7 camera set up, which really is the minimum needed to set up a good format based on having our own "Britcar" 1 hour program would cost about £6k per round. The current advice is that to get the best from televising the series, we would need to employ a "producer", this would add a further say £2k per round. If in addition we also had a Britcar assistant producer, Steve would be the obvious choice if he has the time and inclination, this would greatly further the cause of making sure that as many competitors as possible got a mention or two. Over the season interviews would be incorporated with those who for one reason or another need a mention but we all have to accept that in a 1 hour program, we will have about 45 mins of airtime as adverts and the like take part of our allotted time. Of the say 45 mins available, half of this will be centred on class 1 and general series information, the remaining 22 mins would then be taken up with the other classes and non class 1 interviews.
I can't go into all the detail here, but lets assume for the sake of argument that the Britcar series, forgetting the 24 for the moment, has on average a grid of 30 cars. I know it's been higher, but lets use 30 for now. 8 rounds at say £8000 per round, £64k divided by 30 equals £2133, divided by the 8 rounds gives you about £266 for each team/car on the grid at each race. This figure shows what it would cost based on no contribution from Britcar or from a series sponsor. Now some may argue that as class 1 will get more coverage, they should pay a greater percentage, fair enough, that could be incorporated in a sliding scale dependent on class.
In a nutshell, for circa £250 a race, or less, a full 1 hour (in TV terms) dedicated program could be produced for Motors TV and or Sky or indeed others. This would include an element of "in car" filming, and if some teams had their own, they could submit it at the end of the race and if the quality was good, some may be incorporated into the program.
That's what it costs, it's not rocket science, just straight forward cost verses product, the trick is to find the right production company and the right producer, I know who we should be using but at this point it would not be appropriate to name them as they have no idea that out of all the different people I have talked to, they seem to stand out a mile above the rest.
The simple question is therefore: Is it worth circa £250 per race, per car, maybe reducing cost wise for class and subject to contributions from the series organisers and/or sponsors, if any in either case, in order to get our own "Britcar" program?
My research to date reveals that a 7 camera set up, which really is the minimum needed to set up a good format based on having our own "Britcar" 1 hour program would cost about £6k per round. The current advice is that to get the best from televising the series, we would need to employ a "producer", this would add a further say £2k per round. If in addition we also had a Britcar assistant producer, Steve would be the obvious choice if he has the time and inclination, this would greatly further the cause of making sure that as many competitors as possible got a mention or two. Over the season interviews would be incorporated with those who for one reason or another need a mention but we all have to accept that in a 1 hour program, we will have about 45 mins of airtime as adverts and the like take part of our allotted time. Of the say 45 mins available, half of this will be centred on class 1 and general series information, the remaining 22 mins would then be taken up with the other classes and non class 1 interviews.
I can't go into all the detail here, but lets assume for the sake of argument that the Britcar series, forgetting the 24 for the moment, has on average a grid of 30 cars. I know it's been higher, but lets use 30 for now. 8 rounds at say £8000 per round, £64k divided by 30 equals £2133, divided by the 8 rounds gives you about £266 for each team/car on the grid at each race. This figure shows what it would cost based on no contribution from Britcar or from a series sponsor. Now some may argue that as class 1 will get more coverage, they should pay a greater percentage, fair enough, that could be incorporated in a sliding scale dependent on class.
In a nutshell, for circa £250 a race, or less, a full 1 hour (in TV terms) dedicated program could be produced for Motors TV and or Sky or indeed others. This would include an element of "in car" filming, and if some teams had their own, they could submit it at the end of the race and if the quality was good, some may be incorporated into the program.
That's what it costs, it's not rocket science, just straight forward cost verses product, the trick is to find the right production company and the right producer, I know who we should be using but at this point it would not be appropriate to name them as they have no idea that out of all the different people I have talked to, they seem to stand out a mile above the rest.
The simple question is therefore: Is it worth circa £250 per race, per car, maybe reducing cost wise for class and subject to contributions from the series organisers and/or sponsors, if any in either case, in order to get our own "Britcar" program?
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