WRC to become S2000

[philis]

autosport:
Today's World Motor Sport Council meeting confirmed that the World Rally Championship will become a Super 2000-based series from 2010, as predicted by autosport.com yesterday.

A proposal to base the WRC on both Super 2000 and Group N cars was rejected following the World Rally Championship Commission's concerns over the cost implications of trying to level the playing field between the two cars.

The decision means that every manufacturer will be forced to introduce a new car for 2010, including Subaru who only entered their new Impreza part-way through the 2008 season.

A statement from the World Motor Sport Council said: "The 2010 World Rally Car will be S2000 based. However, the removable kit, already adopted by the WMSC, will be redefined with no electronic benefits, or similar upgrades, to ensure cost reductions.

"The new S2000-based World Rally Car will only be permitted for use on World Rally Championship events."

The FIA also confirmed that Group N cars, including the existing S2000, will be retained in the Production Car World Rally Championship, and that - as predicted by autosport.com - it is in negotiations with Ralliart Italy to supply and service Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution cars for the Pirelli Star Drive winners to contest their designated WRC events in during 2009 and 2010.

Can someone enlighten me on what this will mean. Will we be seeing 2ltr front wheel drive screemers like the megane maxi of the late 90's?

Edited by philis on Friday 12th December 14:55

Edited by philis on Friday 12th December 14:55

[zac510]

It's still pretty vague as to exactly what this 'kit' that fits onto the S2000 actually is.

[mchammer89]

S2000 regs allow 4wd for rally, only 2wd for touring cars, more interesting though is that Loeb has said he'll leave if the S2000 regs go ahead, and that he may be destined for F1.

[Munter]

mchammer89 said:

Loeb has said he'll leave if the S2000 regs go ahead, and that he may be destined for F1.

I dont think that'll happen this year. Unless he wants to buy Honda...

[deevlash]

Munter said:

mchammer89 said:

Loeb has said he'll leave if the S2000 regs go ahead, and that he may be destined for F1.

I dont think that'll happen this year. Unless he wants to buy Honda...

he wants to test in 2009, get a race seat in 2010. So far his testing speed has been very competitive in F1 and sports cars.

[zac510]

Loeb said he's too old for F1.. where did you get the idea he wants to race in 2010?

[deevlash]

zac510 said:

Loeb said he's too old for F1.. where did you get the idea he wants to race in 2010?

http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/172604-0/wrc_champion_loeb_would_go_to_f1_in_2010.html

loeb said:

“The team bosses think I am too old,” Loeb told French newspaper Libération, “but mentally I am not – age would not be an obstacle for me.

“With a testing programme in 2009, I would go to the Formula 1 grid in 2010.”

[woof]

And Loeb said F1 was too boring - the same tracks round and a round hold no interest to him

He'll go into DTM I think - or Sportscars.
(There was some talk of Citroen moving to the DTM - but i guess that's all on hold now)

[zac510]

He didn't say he wants to..

[LongQ]

Citroen buys Honda, Loeb gets drive.

Makes sense.

France might even get a GP again.

Wonder if there is a free slot in 2010 ...?

[deevlash]

zac510 said:

He didn't say he wants to..

stop splitting hairs

[telecat]

And costs will go up. Turbo's are a pretty cheap way of increasing horsepower. Getting power out of a Normally aspirated 2 litre is a much more expensive business. Another "cost cutting" exercise from the FIA that isn't.

[stockhatcher]

telecat said:

And costs will go up. Turbo's are a pretty cheap way of increasing horsepower. Getting power out of a Normally aspirated 2 litre is a much more expensive business. Another "cost cutting" exercise from the FIA that isn't.

errrrr, but they use s2000 in the the IRc run by private teams ( except abarth?), so it will be cost cutting, becuase private teams can afford to run them in the WRC, hopefully, more teams will enter, all be it with the same cars, and more drviers will open up. I would be quite happy to see 10 pug 207s, 10 puntos, 2 mg zrs, 5 polos, it if means more drivers get a go at the top level.

[PH_Scooby]

If turbo's are dropped for 2010 I suspect Subaru will quit WRC, of cause they will say "it's a cost cutting measure", but in reality the 2.0 Boxer engine without a turbo is next to useless.

[philis]

telecat said:

And costs will go up. Turbo's are a pretty cheap way of increasing horsepower. Getting power out of a Normally aspirated 2 litre is a much more expensive business. Another "cost cutting" exercise from the FIA that isn't.

I dont think they are scrapping turbo's
apparently there is a permitted bolt on kit that includes turbos and a spoiler.

Personally id rather see a 280hp non turbo than a 300hp turbo car

[deevlash]

PH_Scooby said:

If turbo's are dropped for 2010 I suspect Subaru will quit WRC, of cause they will say "it's a cost cutting measure", but in reality the 2.0 Boxer engine without a turbo is next to useless.

leaving prodrive clear to buy honda f1...

[robwales]

http://www.wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=101&id=35...

article said:

The FIA World Motor Sport Council (WMSC) has announced further technical details of the future World Rally Car.

After meeting today in Monaco, the council reconfirmed that the 2010 World Rally Car will be based on an S2000 specification car.

However, the scope of the removable performance kit, already adopted by the WMSC to bring the car to WRC specification, has been redefined - with no electronic benefits, or similar upgrades, allowed on cost grounds.

Instead, the WRC kit is believed to be limited to a turbo, revised inlet and exhaust manifolds, a quicker gearshift mechanism (with steering wheel paddle shift) and an aero package consisting of a rear wing and front spoiler. The bolt-on kit will cost under 30.000 Euros and should give the cars an extra 50bhp.

The WMSC also decided that the new S2000-based World Rally Car will only be permitted for use on World Rally Championship events, and that the P-WRC will remain open to Group N cars, including the existing S2000 car.

The FIA also revealed that it is in exclusive negotiations with Ralliart Italy to supply and service Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution cars for the Pirelli Star Drivers to contest the designated 2009 and 2010 FIA World Rally Championship events.

So another 50bhp on the S2000 cars - anyone know what power the current S2000 cars develop ?

[anonymous-user]

PH_Scooby said:

If turbo's are dropped for 2010 I suspect Subaru will quit WRC, of cause they will say "it's a cost cutting measure", but in reality the 2.0 Boxer engine without a turbo is next to useless.

bks. A flat four is far more capable of reving and producing power than an inline 4, it's just that at the moment the Subaru none turbo engine isn't developed for high power in their car applications, it would be very easy to make it seriously potent if they built a 2.0 litre NA engine with the turbo style 16V heads rather than the current 8V they use on the NA engine.

In fact it would be the perfect engine for this, with its short block and small bearing size, it would be a far better bet than the turbo version when compared to the alternatives.

Edited by johnfelstead on Friday 12th December 22:09

[neilrallying]

Tommy Fields in Ireland has been developing 2ltr n/a Subaru power for some time and as I understand it has achieved a reliable 290+bhp from them at over 9000revs!

My understanding of the regs when I last looked properly (admittedly some months ago) was that there would be S2000 for n/a 4wd cars (which can be created from a 2wd base vehicle if the manufacturer does not have a suitable 4wd in the range) and then a S2000+ category which will allow for a turbo kit and an aero package to be added to the base S2000 car.

As already previously mentioned in the thread I can't see how this route will ultimately save huge amounts for the manufacturers but the fact that there are already a significant number of companies with S2000 cars built, with more being completed all the time (most recently the new Corsa) could mean much greater support and numbers for the WRC from both works and privateer teams. They will have to look carefully at how the IRC and WRC are structured as with essentially the same regulations between them it seems they will be fighting for the same customers (manufacturer/privateer teams) as presently with different sets of regulations covering both series there is a clear route to take depending what type of vehicle you have.

It would not surprise me to see Subaru decide to leave the sport, although they would have to think very hard about future marketing strategy. It can be done though, Audi still trade of the Quattro drivetrain using images from rallying in the 80's even though they have had no manufacturer supported involvement in the sport since the GpA 80/90 models in 1988!

Neil.

[PH_Scooby]

If a N/A EJ20 can produce that amount of power then fair enough I stand corrected.