KERS systems

[ajprice]

What happens to a car when the KERS system fails? I know this is a bit theoretical at the moment but would the KERS

1. Stop, and the car keeps running without the system
2. Stop and kill the car
3. Stop, explode and kill everything within a 100m radius

???

Edited by ajprice on Thursday 15th January 15:15

[dpbird90]

I would imagine that, as KERS will be powering a boost button which is apparantly going to give the engine another 80bhp for overtaking (personally I think that sort of thing belongs solely in A1GP but there you go), if KERS were to fail then the boost button would probably just not work. But saying that, we all saw what happened when BMW were testing their system. Let's hope it doesn't happen now the systems are supposedly refined, or the K in KFC could stand for kubica or Kovalainen.

[skinny]

depends how it fails. i expect most will be fed into the drivetrain via a CVT so if it failed, the CVT should lock and it would just be a bit of useless balast. i'm sure they'll be fairly rigorously tested tho i'm still to be convinced by the safety of the williams in a crash...

[zac510]

4. Barrage of internet posts about how it is a waste of time, money, etc..

[garycat]

One of those new oversize front wings will liberate the heavy spinning KERS flywheel from its housing and F1 will turn into rollerball.

[DangerousMike]

The spinning flywheel is contained within a casing similar to that used in aircraft engines.

The aviation industry learnt how to stop turbine failure resulting in fan blades flying out of the engine and puncturing bits of the plane ages ago. There is basically a very strong ring in the engine casing around the blades. The same technology can be used in the flywheel casing, no problem.

[dpbird90]

garycat said:

One of those new oversize front wings will liberate the heavy spinning KERS flywheel from its housing and F1 will turn into rollerball.

Ooh, sounds dangerous, yet somehow amusing.

[anonymous-user]

The KERS flywheel is pretty light, most of it is carbon fibre. It will be spinning at 200K rpm though so has some potential for damage. The mechanical version is mounted in front of the engine where the fuel cell usually sits, with a direct link to the crankshaft, It has a form of internal CVT to accelerate, decelerate the flywheel. The one i saw didn't look like it had anything other than a magnesium casing around the flywheel, but it was a prototype.

[Fire99]

All sounds very complicated. Don't suppose we could have a lightweight car, huge fat tyres, simple aerodynamics and a small turbocharged engine (to keep the greenies happy) kicking out about 900bhp could we?
Oh and bung in a manual gearchange to spice things up a bit.

[stifler]

dpbird90 said:

I would imagine that, as KERS will be powering a boost button which is apparantly going to give the engine another 80bhp for overtaking (personally I think that sort of thing belongs solely in A1GP but there you go), if KERS were to fail then the boost button would probably just not work. But saying that, we all saw what happened when BMW were testing their system. Let's hope it doesn't happen now the systems are supposedly refined, or the K in KFC could stand for kubica or Kovalainen.

Is there a video of what happened? i heard that a bolty got buzzed but didnt hear alot more about it.

[Dr KT]

Fire99 said:

All sounds very complicated. Don't suppose we could have a lightweight car, huge fat tyres, simple aerodynamics and a small turbocharged engine (to keep the greenies happy) kicking out about 900bhp could we?
Oh and bung in a manual gearchange to spice things up a bit.

Champ car ;-)

[skinny]

johnfelstead said:

The KERS flywheel is pretty light, most of it is carbon fibre. It will be spinning at 200K rpm though so has some potential for damage. The mechanical version is mounted in front of the engine where the fuel cell usually sits, with a direct link to the crankshaft, It has a form of internal CVT to accelerate, decelerate the flywheel. The one i saw didn't look like it had anything other than a magnesium casing around the flywheel, but it was a prototype.

ah, so they'll use it to add extra torque during accel up to 18000 rpm? sounds like a neat solution

[pistol pete]

Who says they which (if any) teams are using a flywheel for energy storage?

It's the big capacitors that some probably have that would concern me more.

Pete

[Nick_F]

I seem to recall from articles on the GM Patriot that they had designed the flywheel to disintigrate rather than leave the housing and had conducted tests which proved their design.

I suspect that there are numerous engine and gearbox components that possess rather more kinetic energy at full chat than a KERS flywheel will.

[Fire99]

Dr KT said:

Fire99 said:

All sounds very complicated. Don't suppose we could have a lightweight car, huge fat tyres, simple aerodynamics and a small turbocharged engine (to keep the greenies happy) kicking out about 900bhp could we?
Oh and bung in a manual gearchange to spice things up a bit.

Champ car ;-)

Don't know much about them other than, if i remember right, they run on some pretty lairy fuel.

I know F1 should be at the top-end of engineering but i think things like KERS make the racing too fussy and over complex.

[furtive]

pistol pete said:

Who says they which (if any) teams are using a flywheel for energy storage?

I thought Williams said they were

[anonymous-user]

Williams are using a flywheel based system, the other teams are not. Mosley is saying he wants to ban the electrical storage versions next year.

[flemke]

johnfelstead said:

Mosley is saying he wants to ban the electrical storage versions next year.

Mind-boggling, isn't it? He pushes the teams to spend, collectively, probably $150M, and then, before they've run the systems in a single race, he wants to bin the whole thing.

[Fire99]

johnfelstead said:

Mosley is saying he wants to ban the electrical storage versions next year.

Is this the Mosley 'roll a dice' school of rule changes? He shouts and everyone empties their pockets!!
Any idea when F1 will focus again on racing rather than Mosleys Scalextric set?

[zac510]

He suggested it but it doesn't seem like he has demanded it yet:

Autosport said:

"No team is obliged to fit KERS," wrote Mosley in the letter. "It is also open to the teams to agree on a standard system or, indeed, to agree not to fit it at all.