Button deserves a 2009 F1 seat more than...

[garycat]

Im I fan of Button and think that he's a better driver than his 1 win in 9 years suggests. If I was an F1 team owner I'd give him a drive in preference to...

1. Fisichella - past his sell by date
2. Piquet - big disappointment in 2008
3. Kovi - ditto
4. The two Sebastians at Torro Rosso. Buemi has no experience and Bourdais failed to match Vettel.
5. Webber - ?

[stifler]

garycat said:

Im I fan of Button and think that he's a better driver than his 1 win in 9 years suggests. If I was an F1 team owner I'd give him a drive in preference to...

1. Fisichella - past his sell by date
2. Piquet - big disappointment in 2008
3. Kovi - ditto
4. The two Sebastians at Torro Rosso. Buemi has no experience and Bourdais failed to match Vettel.
5. Webber - ?

TRULLI

[rev-erend]

He probably wants a salary of £20M .. so many will not be interested.

[patmahe]

I don't know why so many people criticise Mark Webber. He often drags his car up to where it has no right to be, especially in qualifying and picks up points when the cars true position should be about 15th.

As for Button, I think he's good but not great, and the wage bill would certainly come into it. I think it would cost teams too much to oust a driver at this stage as they'd have to buy the current driver out of a contract and then pay Button. To me as a team owner it would be a lot of expense for potentially no significant gain.

[garycat]

Isn't Button on a 5 year $20m contract with Honda? Now that Honfa F1 has folded I reckon Button would drive for much less. The problem is all the listed drivers have 2009 contracts, and we all now Button's history with contract negotiations.

[ajprice]

I think Button got himself in a hole with all the staying at Honda business a few years ago. He just seemed to always make the wrong move and end up in a car that wasn't the best. Might be too late now, as there are always new drivers coming up who get their own chance, whether they struggle (Piquet/Bourdais) or show their stuff (Hamilton/Kubica/Vettel) ahead of established drivers. This year it will be interesting to see what Buemi does. As for Kov, he had Flav over his shoulder on his first year, who openly called him rubbish, and been team mate to Hamilton at McLaren, another tough break. I think he's decent enough, just not had a clear chance to step up.

[onemorelap]

A strange situation for Button but he has been in F1 for nigh on a decade and not had much to show for it.
Hyped up on his entry to F1 despite an average performance in the lower formulaes, bad move from Williams to Renault, got a reputation as a playboy at Renault then a further bad move to BAR / Honda. Started to show some real class against JV, one win and then a slide back into mediocrity with occassional flashes of speed.
I don't doubt he could bring some real experience to a new team in the same vein as DC did with Red Bull but i can't see any new start up teams coming in for the forseeable.

Personally i think its a shame that Pantano hasn't been given opportunity to have another crack at F1 TBH.

All the talk about Bruno Senna late last year (deservedly so) and Pantano didn't even appear on the radar.

[kevin ritson]

patmahe said:

I don't know why so many people criticise Mark Webber. He often drags his car up to where it has no right to be, especially in qualifying and picks up points when the cars true position should be about 15th.

Because he can drive one lap but not a whole race?

[anonymous-user]

kevin ritson said:

patmahe said:

I don't know why so many people criticise Mark Webber. He often drags his car up to where it has no right to be, especially in qualifying and picks up points when the cars true position should be about 15th.

Because he can drive one lap but not a whole race?

It's hard to maintain race pace in a car you've just qualified well out of place up the grid. So it tends to make you look bad. I think Webber's very good, be interesting to see how he gets on against a young charger like Vettel.

[FNG]

onemorelap said:

Hyped up on his entry to F1 despite an average performance in the lower formulaes

Karting - 3x British champion, Forumla A European champion, Ayrton Senna Memorial Cup.
FFord - one season - class of the field, 9 wins, won FFord Festival, Autosport/McLaren Young Driver of the Year
F3 - one season - top rookie, 3 wins, 3rd in championship, 2nd at Macau, 5th at Marlboro Masters

Distinctly not average.

Then looked pretty decent as a rookie against (the then highly rated) Schuey R. Better than Piquet or Kovi have looked in their first seasons, regardless of who they've been compared against.

onemorelap said:

bad move from Williams to Renault

Not much he could do about that - Williams went for Montoya and regretted it. They made the wrong choice. Frank said he'd have Jenson back anytime, please.

onemorelap said:

got a reputation as a playboy at Renault

Fair one, but that was his first time in a back-of-the-grid team anywhere, and he really shouldn't have been there. Chin dropped, shouldn't have, he pulled it together though.

onemorelap said:

then a further bad move to BAR / Honda. Started to show some real class against JV

I'd suggest a very good move to BAR, which was on the up and was at one point the 2nd best car on the grid - then Dave Richards left and Gurning Nick got in, and it's been downhill since. Yes he thrashed JV and Sato (who is very quick, if very erratic / rampantly optimistic) and in 2007 he thrashed Rubens too.

onemorelap said:

one win and then a slide back into mediocrity with occassional flashes of speed

One dog of a car which he drove in a manner that had many observers in pit lane rating him highly for what he was achieving in it.

I can't excuse last year - plainly not interested for the season, I believe because he knew 2008 development was done and dusted in March.

onemorelap said:

Personally i think its a shame that Pantano hasn't been given opportunity to have another crack at F1 TBH.

Didn't Pantano cook his goose with a drugtaking episode? By the time he got back on track he was getting seen as old - and with all that experience, if it hadn't been for Senna hitting a stray dog and breaking down too much, and Di Grassi only doing a partial season, he still may not have clinched it.

For all his experience he should be way better than the up-and-coming rookies that he was competing with in GP2.

[kevin ritson]

uktrailmonster said:

kevin ritson said:

patmahe said:

I don't know why so many people criticise Mark Webber. He often drags his car up to where it has no right to be, especially in qualifying and picks up points when the cars true position should be about 15th.

Because he can drive one lap but not a whole race?

It's hard to maintain race pace in a car you've just qualified well out of place up the grid. So it tends to make you look bad. I think Webber's very good, be interesting to see how he gets on against a young charger like Vettel.

Trulli makes a fair fist of it, I reckon. And before DC was getting involved in everyone's accidents, he would more often than not pass a downward Webber on his way up in the races.

[anonymous-user]

kevin ritson said:

And before DC was getting involved in everyone's accidents, he would more often than not pass a downward Webber on his way up in the races.

I can't be bothered to look up the stats, but I reckon Webber thrashed DC overall, qual and race. Maybe some bobble hatter can confirm it either way?

Edit: Webber scored 21 points to DC's 8 in 2008

Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 11th February 20:50

[egomeister]

FNG said:

Didn't Pantano cook his goose with a drugtaking episode? By the time he got back on track he was getting seen as old - and with all that experience, if it hadn't been for Senna hitting a stray dog and breaking down too much, and Di Grassi only doing a partial season, he still may not have clinched it.

For all his experience he should be way better than the up-and-coming rookies that he was competing with in GP2.

You're thinking of Enge who failed the drug test I think.

[mko9]

I don't think Button has done anything in the last three years that would warrant a seat over anyone else in F1. Even the one win he got was a bit of a gift in a mess of a race.

[dom180]

Webber blew DC away.
Webber would blow Button away.
Webber will blow Vettel away.

uktrailmonster said:

kevin ritson said:

And before DC was getting involved in everyone's accidents, he would more often than not pass a downward Webber on his way up in the races.

I can't be bothered to look up the stats, but I reckon Webber thrashed DC overall, qual and race. Maybe some bobble hatter can confirm it either way?

[anonymous-user]

egomeister said:

FNG said:

Didn't Pantano cook his goose with a drugtaking episode? By the time he got back on track he was getting seen as old - and with all that experience, if it hadn't been for Senna hitting a stray dog and breaking down too much, and Di Grassi only doing a partial season, he still may not have clinched it.

For all his experience he should be way better than the up-and-coming rookies that he was competing with in GP2.

You're thinking of Enge who failed the drug test I think.

That's right, it was Enge. Pantano is a cock anyway. He's the only driver I know who failed to get an F1 test drive based on his attitude during the seat fit. I wasn't actually involved personally, but it is true.

[egomeister]

uktrailmonster said:

egomeister said:

FNG said:

Didn't Pantano cook his goose with a drugtaking episode? By the time he got back on track he was getting seen as old - and with all that experience, if it hadn't been for Senna hitting a stray dog and breaking down too much, and Di Grassi only doing a partial season, he still may not have clinched it.

For all his experience he should be way better than the up-and-coming rookies that he was competing with in GP2.

You're thinking of Enge who failed the drug test I think.

That's right, it was Enge. Pantano is a cock anyway. He's the only driver I know who failed to get an F1 test drive based on his attitude during the seat fit. I wasn't actually involved personally, but it is true.

At the blue team?

Incredible that someone can manage to piss off the people who will be busting gut for they, before they've even got their foot in the door!

[anonymous-user]

egomeister said:

uktrailmonster said:

egomeister said:

FNG said:

Didn't Pantano cook his goose with a drugtaking episode? By the time he got back on track he was getting seen as old - and with all that experience, if it hadn't been for Senna hitting a stray dog and breaking down too much, and Di Grassi only doing a partial season, he still may not have clinched it.

For all his experience he should be way better than the up-and-coming rookies that he was competing with in GP2.

You're thinking of Enge who failed the drug test I think.

That's right, it was Enge. Pantano is a cock anyway. He's the only driver I know who failed to get an F1 test drive based on his attitude during the seat fit. I wasn't actually involved personally, but it is true.

At the blue team?

Incredible that someone can manage to piss off the people who will be busting gut for they, before they've even got their foot in the door!

That's arrogance for you though.
Sorry no clues on the team

[egomeister]

uktrailmonster said:

egomeister said:

uktrailmonster said:

egomeister said:

FNG said:

Didn't Pantano cook his goose with a drugtaking episode? By the time he got back on track he was getting seen as old - and with all that experience, if it hadn't been for Senna hitting a stray dog and breaking down too much, and Di Grassi only doing a partial season, he still may not have clinched it.

For all his experience he should be way better than the up-and-coming rookies that he was competing with in GP2.

You're thinking of Enge who failed the drug test I think.

That's right, it was Enge. Pantano is a cock anyway. He's the only driver I know who failed to get an F1 test drive based on his attitude during the seat fit. I wasn't actually involved personally, but it is true.

At the blue team?

Incredible that someone can manage to piss off the people who will be busting gut for they, before they've even got their foot in the door!

That's arrogance for you though.
Sorry no clues on the team

it's tales like that which make me think I'm not missing out, having nothing to do with drivers in my job!

[RJB_666]

I'd want him to replace Nakajima (sp) I didn't rate his first season, would have to improve a lot to keep his seat for the following season. Also think Fisichella has had his time now.