This morning at Jerez
Discussion
I know it depends on the day we refer to, but here was one day's testing at Jerez at the beginning of the month, including some teams, e.g., Ferrari, who are not down there this morning:
Sebastien Vettel (Ger/Red Bull) 1:19.055 (87 laps)
Felipe Massa (Brz/Ferrari) 1:20.330 (63)
Kamui Kobayashi (Jpn/Toyota) 1:20.699 (79)
Nico Rosberg (Ger/Williams) 1:21.171 (71)
Robert Kubica (Pol/BMW-Sauber) 1:21.292 (47)
Giancarlo Fisichella (Ita/Force India) 1:21.584 (31)
Pedro De la Rosa (Spa/McLaren) 1:21.831 (94)
Nelson Piquet (Brz/Renault) 1:22.011 (52)
Sebastien Vettel (Ger/Red Bull) 1:19.055 (87 laps)
Felipe Massa (Brz/Ferrari) 1:20.330 (63)
Kamui Kobayashi (Jpn/Toyota) 1:20.699 (79)
Nico Rosberg (Ger/Williams) 1:21.171 (71)
Robert Kubica (Pol/BMW-Sauber) 1:21.292 (47)
Giancarlo Fisichella (Ita/Force India) 1:21.584 (31)
Pedro De la Rosa (Spa/McLaren) 1:21.831 (94)
Nelson Piquet (Brz/Renault) 1:22.011 (52)
dafeller said:
1. R. Barrichello Brawn GP BGP 001 1:18.398
2. F. Alonso Renault R29 1:19.654 +1.256
3. L. Hamilton McLaren MP4-24 1:20.080 +1.682
4. N. Rosberg Williams FW31 1:20.169 +1.771
Button is scheduled to drive this afternoon.
Do you know what kind of run Barrichello was doing? Race sim, qually sim, setup test, component test, and how many laps?2. F. Alonso Renault R29 1:19.654 +1.256
3. L. Hamilton McLaren MP4-24 1:20.080 +1.682
4. N. Rosberg Williams FW31 1:20.169 +1.771
Button is scheduled to drive this afternoon.
Just looking at the stats on the Spanish tracks, the Catalunya track runs 66 laps for the F1 race, and at 4.655 km in length is only about .2 km longer than Jerez. Lap record at Catalunya is 1:21.670 (Raikkonen, 2..8).
Having a full 2 or 3 tenths in hand at such a track would, notwithstanding race traffic and other tactical matters, be pretty huge. 1.3 seconds a lap over 66 laps would be catastrophic. If nobody is running KERS at the start of the season, and the theoretical 'boost' from KERS is supposed to be around 80 hp for up to 6.7 seconds per lap, perhaps the gap with Brawn might place more importance on developing KERS for teams trying to close the gap? I wouldn't think the KERS boost would cover all the ground, and of course Brawn has KERS system yet to fit (and the rather interesting flywheel version at that).
I'm also wondering about the advantages of the Flybrid KERS setup: it's all in front of the engine, and doesn't require the cooling apparatus of the electrical systems I have seen diagramed. Would these be advantages to weight distribution considerations that seem to be troubling the teams with electrical systems?
Having a full 2 or 3 tenths in hand at such a track would, notwithstanding race traffic and other tactical matters, be pretty huge. 1.3 seconds a lap over 66 laps would be catastrophic. If nobody is running KERS at the start of the season, and the theoretical 'boost' from KERS is supposed to be around 80 hp for up to 6.7 seconds per lap, perhaps the gap with Brawn might place more importance on developing KERS for teams trying to close the gap? I wouldn't think the KERS boost would cover all the ground, and of course Brawn has KERS system yet to fit (and the rather interesting flywheel version at that).
I'm also wondering about the advantages of the Flybrid KERS setup: it's all in front of the engine, and doesn't require the cooling apparatus of the electrical systems I have seen diagramed. Would these be advantages to weight distribution considerations that seem to be troubling the teams with electrical systems?
TVR Moneypit said:
A total stab in the dark here chaps, but is there any chance that the Brawn cars could be running underweight or something in order to do these times, thus attract sponsers?
With the first race a fortnight away, a sponsor deal is never going to be done in time.Therefore posting impressive times in testing only to not deliver in the race would be counter-productive.
There's very limited testing, too, so running anything other than realistic race and qualifying setups at this late stage would be insanity.
TVR Moneypit said:
A total stab in the dark here chaps, but is there any chance that the Brawn cars could be running underweight or something in order to do these times, thus attract sponsers?
I think the previous thread on Brawn addressed this issue a couple of times: all the teams have agreed not to run underweight in the testing, and with so little testing available to Brawn, with their late start, running under irrelevant or unreal conditions wouldn't serve to advance the car's development very much. Though attracting sponsors would be nice, I rather doubt at this point that they are interested in more than getting a fast car right, and I think the speculation that Brawn has a budget in the 150 million range for this year (alone) sort of gives the showboat-for-potential-sponsors argument less traction.TVR Moneypit said:
A total stab in the dark here chaps, but is there any chance that the Brawn cars could be running underweight or something in order to do these times, thus attract sponsers?
That would be my first thought , its like Mc struggleing last week now they are right back up there again You should never read too much into these pre season tests
Jungles said:
dafeller said:
1. R. Barrichello Brawn GP BGP 001 1:18.398
2. F. Alonso Renault R29 1:19.654 +1.256
3. L. Hamilton McLaren MP4-24 1:20.080 +1.682
4. N. Rosberg Williams FW31 1:20.169 +1.771
Button is scheduled to drive this afternoon.
Do you know what kind of run Barrichello was doing? Race sim, qually sim, setup test, component test, and how many laps?2. F. Alonso Renault R29 1:19.654 +1.256
3. L. Hamilton McLaren MP4-24 1:20.080 +1.682
4. N. Rosberg Williams FW31 1:20.169 +1.771
Button is scheduled to drive this afternoon.
No, I'm not there, just reading several live feeds at the same time.
'Within a second' is sort of a left-handed compliment, don't you think? It's crazy.
Here's my question: this sort of gap, in my recollection, hasn't really come up all that often in recent years, has it? Assuming for the sake of argument that Brawn is actually up to a second faster than anything else on the track under the new formula, it sort of harkens one back to Lotus 78/79's second-a lap advantage at the start of the 1978 season.
But that was Mr. Chapman inventing an entirely new paradigm for the car, so you could understand other-worldly sorts of results. Is the new formula this year such a shift that it creates a similar result? I really enjoy the intelligent insider commentary on this forum, btw. You're all making the coming season much more fun for me.
'Within a second' is sort of a left-handed compliment, don't you think? It's crazy.
Here's my question: this sort of gap, in my recollection, hasn't really come up all that often in recent years, has it? Assuming for the sake of argument that Brawn is actually up to a second faster than anything else on the track under the new formula, it sort of harkens one back to Lotus 78/79's second-a lap advantage at the start of the 1978 season.
But that was Mr. Chapman inventing an entirely new paradigm for the car, so you could understand other-worldly sorts of results. Is the new formula this year such a shift that it creates a similar result? I really enjoy the intelligent insider commentary on this forum, btw. You're all making the coming season much more fun for me.
dafeller said:
Just looking at the stats on the Spanish tracks, the Catalunya track runs 66 laps for the F1 race, and at 4.655 km in length is only about .2 km longer than Jerez. Lap record at Catalunya is 1:21.670 (Raikkonen, 2..8).
Having a full 2 or 3 tenths in hand at such a track would, notwithstanding race traffic and other tactical matters, be pretty huge. 1.3 seconds a lap over 66 laps would be catastrophic. If nobody is running KERS at the start of the season, and the theoretical 'boost' from KERS is supposed to be around 80 hp for up to 6.7 seconds per lap, perhaps the gap with Brawn might place more importance on developing KERS for teams trying to close the gap? I wouldn't think the KERS boost would cover all the ground, and of course Brawn has KERS system yet to fit (and the rather interesting flywheel version at that).
I'm also wondering about the advantages of the Flybrid KERS setup: it's all in front of the engine, and doesn't require the cooling apparatus of the electrical systems I have seen diagramed. Would these be advantages to weight distribution considerations that seem to be troubling the teams with electrical systems?
are the two different tracks in any way similar in layout/elevation/etc? if not, then a comparison of lap times is meaningless. some cars may be better on the straights, some in the corners.Having a full 2 or 3 tenths in hand at such a track would, notwithstanding race traffic and other tactical matters, be pretty huge. 1.3 seconds a lap over 66 laps would be catastrophic. If nobody is running KERS at the start of the season, and the theoretical 'boost' from KERS is supposed to be around 80 hp for up to 6.7 seconds per lap, perhaps the gap with Brawn might place more importance on developing KERS for teams trying to close the gap? I wouldn't think the KERS boost would cover all the ground, and of course Brawn has KERS system yet to fit (and the rather interesting flywheel version at that).
I'm also wondering about the advantages of the Flybrid KERS setup: it's all in front of the engine, and doesn't require the cooling apparatus of the electrical systems I have seen diagramed. Would these be advantages to weight distribution considerations that seem to be troubling the teams with electrical systems?
dafeller said:
No, I'm not there, just reading several live feeds at the same time.
'Within a second' is sort of a left-handed compliment, don't you think? It's crazy.
Here's my question: this sort of gap, in my recollection, hasn't really come up all that often in recent years, has it? Assuming for the sake of argument that Brawn is actually up to a second faster than anything else on the track under the new formula, it sort of harkens one back to Lotus 78/79's second-a lap advantage at the start of the 1978 season.
But that was Mr. Chapman inventing an entirely new paradigm for the car, so you could understand other-worldly sorts of results. Is the new formula this year such a shift that it creates a similar result? I really enjoy the intelligent insider commentary on this forum, btw. You're all making the coming season much more fun for me.
Fair point but IIRC, Mclaren had this sort of edge in '98, possibly even '99? So did williams in '92, '96 etc. didn't they? I'm sure that Ferrari ahd this level of advantage for good perioeds in the ealry 2000s too.'Within a second' is sort of a left-handed compliment, don't you think? It's crazy.
Here's my question: this sort of gap, in my recollection, hasn't really come up all that often in recent years, has it? Assuming for the sake of argument that Brawn is actually up to a second faster than anything else on the track under the new formula, it sort of harkens one back to Lotus 78/79's second-a lap advantage at the start of the 1978 season.
But that was Mr. Chapman inventing an entirely new paradigm for the car, so you could understand other-worldly sorts of results. Is the new formula this year such a shift that it creates a similar result? I really enjoy the intelligent insider commentary on this forum, btw. You're all making the coming season much more fun for me.
are the two different tracks in any way similar in layout/elevation/etc? if not, then a comparison of lap times is meaningless. some cars may be better on the straights, some in the corners.
[/quote]
Actually, I was just using the track comparison to figure out how many laps a race at the track might run. Of course, different tracks would offer variations in performance. I have the technical specs on Jerez, and will try to find them for Catalunya.
[/quote]
Actually, I was just using the track comparison to figure out how many laps a race at the track might run. Of course, different tracks would offer variations in performance. I have the technical specs on Jerez, and will try to find them for Catalunya.
Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff