Audi at Le Mans
Discussion
Am i the only one who thinks it's massively impressive that in the last 8 years they've won 7 of them and came 3rd-4th in the other?
| Year | Drivers | Team | Car | Laps | Distance |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2008 | Tom Kristensen, Allan McNish, Rinaldo Capello | Audi Sport North America | Audi R10 TDI | 381 | 5192.65 km |
| 2007 | Frank Biela, Emanuele Pirro, Marco Werner | Audi Sport North America | Audi R10 TDI | 369 | 5036.85 km |
| 2006 | Frank Biela, Emanuele Pirro, Marco Werner | Audi Sport Team Joest | Audi R10 TDI | 380 | 5187 km |
| 2005 | JJ Lehto, Marco Werner, Tom Kristensen | ADT Champion Racing | Audi R8 | 370 | 5050.5 km |
| 2004 | Seiji Ara, Tom Kristensen, Rinaldo Capello | Audi Sport Japan Team Goh | Audi R8 | 379 | 5169.9 km |
| 2003 | Tom Kristensen, Rinaldo Capello, Guy Smith | Team Bentley | Bentley Speed 8 | 377 | 5146.05 km |
| 2002 | Frank Biela, Tom Kristensen, Emanuele Pirro | Audi Sport Team Joest | Audi R8 | 375 | 5118.75 km |
| 2001 | Frank Biela, Tom Kristensen, Emanuele Pirro | Audi Sport Team Joest | Audi R8 | 321 | 4381.65 km |
| 2000 | Frank Biela, Tom Kristensen, Emanuele Pirro | Audi Sport Team Joest | Audi R8 | 368 | 5007.99 km |
It's hard not to sound like I'm belittling their efforts, because it *is* impressive, but they've not had a lot of competition throughout those 8 years.
The first time Audi ran at Le Mans they were 4th (I think) with the first of the R8s. But then most of the other manufacturer teams dropped out so they were left to their own devices for a while. At least one (maybe two) of the wins were with factory supported teams rather than full works efforts.
Bentley's win in 2003 (I think...) was purely down to the regs being tweaked to favour them over the Audis, as Audi were back to their winning ways the next year.
Only in 2008 was there a real race between two big teams. The year before was a little bit of an exercise in snatching defeat from the jaws of victory for both teams.
Nick M said:
It's hard not to sound like I'm belittling their efforts, because it *is* impressive, but they've not had a lot of competition throughout those 8 years.
The first time Audi ran at Le Mans they were 4th (I think) with the first of the R8s. But then most of the other manufacturer teams dropped out so they were left to their own devices for a while. At least one (maybe two) of the wins were with factory supported teams rather than full works efforts.
Bentley's win in 2003 (I think...) was purely down to the regs being tweaked to favour them over the Audis, as Audi were back to their winning ways the next year.
Only in 2008 was there a real race between two big teams. The year before was a little bit of an exercise in snatching defeat from the jaws of victory for both teams.
I did think the bentley was odd as the audi was listed as an LMP900 winner and the bentley was an LMGTP, so audi won their class that year as well.The first time Audi ran at Le Mans they were 4th (I think) with the first of the R8s. But then most of the other manufacturer teams dropped out so they were left to their own devices for a while. At least one (maybe two) of the wins were with factory supported teams rather than full works efforts.
Bentley's win in 2003 (I think...) was purely down to the regs being tweaked to favour them over the Audis, as Audi were back to their winning ways the next year.
Only in 2008 was there a real race between two big teams. The year before was a little bit of an exercise in snatching defeat from the jaws of victory for both teams.
The Bently was an Audi anyway .. pretty sure it used the Audi engine.. even if a sister company used an alternative design for the chassis and bodywork.
Whilst the achievement is indeed impressive .. Le Mans is the poorer for it IMHO ..
Audi just seem to own the whole place.. wander around and you see Audi have paid for this, that and the other..
Bit of a shame really
Whilst the achievement is indeed impressive .. Le Mans is the poorer for it IMHO ..
Audi just seem to own the whole place.. wander around and you see Audi have paid for this, that and the other..
Bit of a shame really
rev-erend said:
The Bently was an Audi anyway .. pretty sure it used the Audi engine.. even if a sister company used an alternative design for the chassis and bodywork.
Whilst the achievement is indeed impressive .. Le Mans is the poorer for it IMHO ..
Audi just seem to own the whole place.. wander around and you see Audi have paid for this, that and the other..
Bit of a shame really
The Bentley was a Bentley with an Audi engine Whilst the achievement is indeed impressive .. Le Mans is the poorer for it IMHO ..
Audi just seem to own the whole place.. wander around and you see Audi have paid for this, that and the other..
Bit of a shame really
And *maybe* the gearbox but I'm not 100% sure on that one. There was very little else in common with the Audi, given the cars were designed to completely different rules.And while I recognise the corporate influence of Audi, I wonder how different the race, and the facilities, would be if they *hadn't* paid for this that and the other. I know that a lot of us mere mortals don't get to enjoy their corporate hostility, etc., but I do wonder how much investment the ACO would have been able to make in the village, etc., if Audi, Peugeot, Aston Martin, etc., weren't drawing the crowds to Le Mans ?
Nick M said:
rev-erend said:
The Bently was an Audi anyway .. pretty sure it used the Audi engine.. even if a sister company used an alternative design for the chassis and bodywork.
Whilst the achievement is indeed impressive .. Le Mans is the poorer for it IMHO ..
Audi just seem to own the whole place.. wander around and you see Audi have paid for this, that and the other..
Bit of a shame really
The Bentley was a Bentley with an Audi engine Whilst the achievement is indeed impressive .. Le Mans is the poorer for it IMHO ..
Audi just seem to own the whole place.. wander around and you see Audi have paid for this, that and the other..
Bit of a shame really
And *maybe* the gearbox but I'm not 100% sure on that one. There was very little else in common with the Audi, given the cars were designed to completely different rules.Nick M said:
It's hard not to sound like I'm belittling their efforts, because it *is* impressive, but they've not had a lot of competition throughout those 8 years.
The first time Audi ran at Le Mans they were 4th (I think) with the first of the R8s. But then most of the other manufacturer teams dropped out so they were left to their own devices for a while. At least one (maybe two) of the wins were with factory supported teams rather than full works efforts.
Bentley's win in 2003 (I think...) was purely down to the regs being tweaked to favour them over the Audis, as Audi were back to their winning ways the next year.
Only in 2008 was there a real race between two big teams. The year before was a little bit of an exercise in snatching defeat from the jaws of victory for both teams.
I agree. 2008 is their greatest victory and the only one I truly respect - specifically McNish and Mr Le Man AKA Tom Kristensen will be regarded as all time greats.The first time Audi ran at Le Mans they were 4th (I think) with the first of the R8s. But then most of the other manufacturer teams dropped out so they were left to their own devices for a while. At least one (maybe two) of the wins were with factory supported teams rather than full works efforts.
Bentley's win in 2003 (I think...) was purely down to the regs being tweaked to favour them over the Audis, as Audi were back to their winning ways the next year.
Only in 2008 was there a real race between two big teams. The year before was a little bit of an exercise in snatching defeat from the jaws of victory for both teams.
entropy said:
Nick M said:
The Bentley was a Bentley with an Audi engine And *maybe* the gearbox but I'm not 100% sure on that one. There was very little else in common with the Audi, given the cars were designed to completely different rules.
The Bentley was based partly on the Audi R8C that ran at Le Mans in 1999. Both designed by the same person whereas Dallara designed the R8s. And *maybe* the gearbox but I'm not 100% sure on that one. There was very little else in common with the Audi, given the cars were designed to completely different rules.Also, if you look at the Bentley's as they evolved, the final car is quite a bit different to the first version as well, so there really isn't a great deal of "Audi" in them, apart from the engine and drivetrain (and I'm not sure how much of the latter is in there to be honest).
Silent1 said:
Am i the only one who thinks it's massively impressive that in the last 8 years they've won 7 of them and came 3rd-4th in the other?
I'm sure that you're not the only one; I, however, find it massively depressing.In truth they have won nine out of the last nine (yawn) as the Bentley has to be considered Audi really. What one can't help to be impressed with is the fact that TK has won all but two of them...
Nick M said:
entropy said:
Nick M said:
The Bentley was a Bentley with an Audi engine And *maybe* the gearbox but I'm not 100% sure on that one. There was very little else in common with the Audi, given the cars were designed to completely different rules.
The Bentley was based partly on the Audi R8C that ran at Le Mans in 1999. Both designed by the same person whereas Dallara designed the R8s. And *maybe* the gearbox but I'm not 100% sure on that one. There was very little else in common with the Audi, given the cars were designed to completely different rules.Also, if you look at the Bentley's as they evolved, the final car is quite a bit different to the first version as well, so there really isn't a great deal of "Audi" in them, apart from the engine and drivetrain (and I'm not sure how much of the latter is in there to be honest).
The Bentley was a re-bodied Toyota Gt-1
Not 100% on topic, but a lad I went to school with has landed a seat at Colin Kolles' R10 team for the LMS this year. I'm hoping to catch up with him at some point to find out a bit about it. Audi have done an extraordinary job of cleaning up at LM in this century. I hope Peugeot can sneak a victory in soon enough.
Spiritual_Beggar said:
Nick M said:
entropy said:
Nick M said:
The Bentley was a Bentley with an Audi engine And *maybe* the gearbox but I'm not 100% sure on that one. There was very little else in common with the Audi, given the cars were designed to completely different rules.
The Bentley was based partly on the Audi R8C that ran at Le Mans in 1999. Both designed by the same person whereas Dallara designed the R8s. And *maybe* the gearbox but I'm not 100% sure on that one. There was very little else in common with the Audi, given the cars were designed to completely different rules.Also, if you look at the Bentley's as they evolved, the final car is quite a bit different to the first version as well, so there really isn't a great deal of "Audi" in them, apart from the engine and drivetrain (and I'm not sure how much of the latter is in there to be honest).
The Bentley was a re-bodied Toyota Gt-1
Edited by andy97 on Monday 23 March 17:04
Nick M said:
entropy said:
Nick M said:
The Bentley was a Bentley with an Audi engine And *maybe* the gearbox but I'm not 100% sure on that one. There was very little else in common with the Audi, given the cars were designed to completely different rules.
The Bentley was based partly on the Audi R8C that ran at Le Mans in 1999. Both designed by the same person whereas Dallara designed the R8s. And *maybe* the gearbox but I'm not 100% sure on that one. There was very little else in common with the Audi, given the cars were designed to completely different rules.Also, if you look at the Bentley's as they evolved, the final car is quite a bit different to the first version as well, so there really isn't a great deal of "Audi" in them, apart from the engine and drivetrain (and I'm not sure how much of the latter is in there to be honest).
Yup, all of those cars are Audis. I don't want to belittle them either, but they have only been battling "garageistes" in all that time pretty much. Peugeot are after them though.
In the 1990's, Le Mans would see top teams fielded by Jaguar, Porsche, Mercedes, Toyota, Nissan, Mazda, Peugeot, McLaren, plus well-funded factory assisted teams running BMW's and Porsches amongst others.
In the 1990's, Le Mans would see top teams fielded by Jaguar, Porsche, Mercedes, Toyota, Nissan, Mazda, Peugeot, McLaren, plus well-funded factory assisted teams running BMW's and Porsches amongst others.
Ahonen said:
The Toyota GT-One was built by TTE in Cologne, not TOM'S/RTN.
The Bentley that won LM was very different to the original '01 and '02 versions. The gearbox was Xtrac, while Audi used Ricardo.
I could start ranting about this again, but I haven't the time or inclination any more...
Thanks for clearing that up re my vague recollections about the gearbox - I knew there was something different but couldn't remember what The Bentley that won LM was very different to the original '01 and '02 versions. The gearbox was Xtrac, while Audi used Ricardo.
I could start ranting about this again, but I haven't the time or inclination any more...
Also, the chappy who designed the Toyota (who's name escapes me for a moment, but he was French) went on to design the Toyota F1 cars didn't he ? Pascal someone or other (sorry, it's late).
Edited by Nick M on Tuesday 24th March 00:45
I would find it hard to disrespect anybody who wins a 24-hour race, much less all the people who have spent money trying to beat Audi those years. I would think that the Audi run will be remembered historically much in the same way other periods of dominance have been recalled: Jaguar winning 5 times in 7 years starting in 1951; Ferrari winning 7 times in 8 years starting in 1958; Porsche's 10 wins in 12 years starting in 1976.
In fact, if you throw in Ford's four year run from 1966, that's 26 wins by only four manufacturers in 37 years of racing at Le Mans 1951-1988. Add Matra's three year run from 1972-1974 . . . it seems like the history of the race is built on long stretches of single marque dominance, which is probably attributable to the painful development of the durable platforms that win the race.
In fact, if you throw in Ford's four year run from 1966, that's 26 wins by only four manufacturers in 37 years of racing at Le Mans 1951-1988. Add Matra's three year run from 1972-1974 . . . it seems like the history of the race is built on long stretches of single marque dominance, which is probably attributable to the painful development of the durable platforms that win the race.
Nick M said:
Also, the chappy who designed the Toyota (who's name escapes me for a moment, but he was French) went on to design the Toyota F1 cars didn't he ? Pascal someone or other (sorry, it's late).
Andrea De Cortanze was the GT-One designer. Left Toyota before they went to F1 and worked for Pescarolo for many years, which is why Pescarolos started to look a bit like open top GT-Ones for a while (2002/03) - you can still see the link in the nose sections and few other clever tweaks on current Pescas.Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff