Ecclestone in move on Renault/McLaren
Discussion
Now we have Ecclestone refusing to pay people unless they sign his concord agreement.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/a...
In typical form he said: “If they come in here with a gun and hold it to my head, they had better be sure they can f***ing pull the trigger, and they should make sure it’s got bullets in it because, if they miss, they better look out.”
I've always thought that people who come out with these sorts of statements are really pathetic. If you've got to tell everyone how hard you are, you are soft. Guns, bullets, triggers. Not the sort of thing you'd say on a rugby pitch - mind you he's too small to be a fly half - as you'd get flattened.
But witholding funds in order to get someone to sign an agreement - jeez! I know Eccs is in a difficult position at the moment and needs to suck up to Mosley, but even so.
Strange that McLaren should be one of the teams picked on by Eccs.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/a...
In typical form he said: “If they come in here with a gun and hold it to my head, they had better be sure they can f***ing pull the trigger, and they should make sure it’s got bullets in it because, if they miss, they better look out.”
I've always thought that people who come out with these sorts of statements are really pathetic. If you've got to tell everyone how hard you are, you are soft. Guns, bullets, triggers. Not the sort of thing you'd say on a rugby pitch - mind you he's too small to be a fly half - as you'd get flattened.
But witholding funds in order to get someone to sign an agreement - jeez! I know Eccs is in a difficult position at the moment and needs to suck up to Mosley, but even so.
Strange that McLaren should be one of the teams picked on by Eccs.
Is he still witholding funds due to the teams from the 2008 season? Or is it in advance of the 2009 season (I can't see Bernie giving cash out in advance.) if it is money that the teams are already owed, can they not do what Damon Hill is doing with P1 International? Surely he cannot do this as it constitutes bribery. Any legal types around that could comment on how the teams could bend him over a barrel?
Is QPR up for sale yet?
A fascinating situation, the outcome of which could be explosive.
It is interesting that both think that BE owes them money. Dennis and Briatore both have to consider the complete financial picture for their organisations - Renault are borrowing money from the French government and therefore will be under close scrutiny about activities such as F1, Daimler have just taken an injection of capital to help them in the current environment. Given these, it is likely that the teams would need to ensure they do not have outstanding debtors, and is the debt relates to TV rights it could be a substantial amount and therefore something they need to get sorted to satisfy their ultimate paymasters (especially for Briatore).
A fascinating situation, the outcome of which could be explosive.
It is interesting that both think that BE owes them money. Dennis and Briatore both have to consider the complete financial picture for their organisations - Renault are borrowing money from the French government and therefore will be under close scrutiny about activities such as F1, Daimler have just taken an injection of capital to help them in the current environment. Given these, it is likely that the teams would need to ensure they do not have outstanding debtors, and is the debt relates to TV rights it could be a substantial amount and therefore something they need to get sorted to satisfy their ultimate paymasters (especially for Briatore).
If Bernie is indeed withholding funds owed to the teams, the question has to be why would he if he contractually has to pay out, if the story is true he has two MD's asking for their money and not receiving it on time.
Could it be that F1 holdings, or whatever the name is of the part of the organisation that pays out the revenue, in cash flow trouble?
There have been a lot of high profile investors and banks going belly up taking billions with them, if the funds were in those banks/funds then F1 is going to be in a serious mess quite soon.
It just seems a very strange story, i don't recall funds ever being withheld before.
Could it be that F1 holdings, or whatever the name is of the part of the organisation that pays out the revenue, in cash flow trouble?
There have been a lot of high profile investors and banks going belly up taking billions with them, if the funds were in those banks/funds then F1 is going to be in a serious mess quite soon.
It just seems a very strange story, i don't recall funds ever being withheld before.
andyps said:
Is QPR up for sale yet?
Considering putting a bid in?andyps said:
A fascinating situation, the outcome of which could be explosive.
It is interesting that both think that BE owes them money. Dennis and Briatore both have to consider the complete financial picture for their organisations - Renault are borrowing money from the French government and therefore will be under close scrutiny about activities such as F1, Daimler have just taken an injection of capital to help them in the current environment. Given these, it is likely that the teams would need to ensure they do not have outstanding debtors, and is the debt relates to TV rights it could be a substantial amount and therefore something they need to get sorted to satisfy their ultimate paymasters (especially for Briatore).
Indeed. In the new world of tight financial controls sending good money after bad, which is how it might appear to investors, is something that will be frowned upon.It is interesting that both think that BE owes them money. Dennis and Briatore both have to consider the complete financial picture for their organisations - Renault are borrowing money from the French government and therefore will be under close scrutiny about activities such as F1, Daimler have just taken an injection of capital to help them in the current environment. Given these, it is likely that the teams would need to ensure they do not have outstanding debtors, and is the debt relates to TV rights it could be a substantial amount and therefore something they need to get sorted to satisfy their ultimate paymasters (especially for Briatore).
The value of F1 as an advertising medium is a bit iffy. It's easy enough to quantify brand awareness, time their logo is seen on prime time and the word Mercedes used on air but one wonders how they can turn this into quantifiable car sales, which is the prime purpose of racing in F1 surely.
Brawn are tightening the purse strings by, it is rumoured, sacking up to 300 staff and withdrawing cars.
I can't help thinking that a lot of sponsers are going to be renegotiating regardless of any mickey mouse restrictions that Mossy might try and impose.
Chatting on the phone to a mate last night. We came up with half a dozen ideas for reducing the teams' budgets over the next couple of seasons. The most cost-effective one was to do nothing. Budgets will come down whatever anyone does.
One idea was to force the engine manufacturers to put their engines on sale to anyone. Then they bring a big lorry with a dozen engines in the back. The customer teams get to pick the engines they want and then those that remain are returned to the main team to put in their cars.
This has two advantages: equalling performance to an extent and also giving the manufacturers more advertising as they would be allowed to stick a logo along the side of any car with their engine.
I'm not suggesting this is the answer to everything but it's better than the fanciful cap and two fans thought it up within a twenty minute phone call. And it came with other ideas as well.
Derek Smith said:
andyps said:
Is QPR up for sale yet?
Considering putting a bid in?Derek Smith said:
The value of F1 as an advertising medium is a bit iffy. It's easy enough to quantify brand awareness, time their logo is seen on prime time and the word Mercedes used on air but one wonders how they can turn this into quantifiable car sales, which is the prime purpose of racing in F1 surely.
I think they also add in the value in terms of engineering and staff development, but both of those only have tenuous links to the road car operations. Derek Smith said:
I can't help thinking that a lot of sponsers are going to be renegotiating regardless of any mickey mouse restrictions that Mossy might try and impose.
Max has said they have to reduce the budgets so teams can afford to take part - if they are run on a sound business basis, if the income is reduced due to loss of sponsors then the amount spent will also be reduced. It makes sense to most, although given the state of FIA accounts their president obviously has limited awareness of how to run a successful business (and previous ventures of his could help verify this).Chatting on the phone to a mate last night. We came up with half a dozen ideas for reducing the teams' budgets over the next couple of seasons. The most cost-effective one was to do nothing. Budgets will come down whatever anyone does.
Derek Smith said:
One idea was to force the engine manufacturers to put their engines on sale to anyone. Then they bring a big lorry with a dozen engines in the back. The customer teams get to pick the engines they want and then those that remain are returned to the main team to put in their cars.
This has two advantages: equalling performance to an extent and also giving the manufacturers more advertising as they would be allowed to stick a logo along the side of any car with their engine.
I'm not suggesting this is the answer to everything but it's better than the fanciful cap and two fans thought it up within a twenty minute phone call. And it came with other ideas as well.
Sounds an interesting idea - it is getting close to that at present. I am sure there are plenty of areas which could be considered as easy cost reductions. One thing I found interesting when at the Autosport show this year was looking at some of the old Lotus F1 cars, as driven by Jim Clark etc. I went with my Dad who commented that the wing mirrors were the same as he could buy at the local motor spares shop which is not exactly the case now. I am not sure how to regulate things like that (and it is not my role to do so) but careful drafting of the regs to change to simple components such as that must be possible. MM may not be able to sort a budget, but with his legal training he should be able to use words well for regulations. Present diffuser row excepted of course!This has two advantages: equalling performance to an extent and also giving the manufacturers more advertising as they would be allowed to stick a logo along the side of any car with their engine.
I'm not suggesting this is the answer to everything but it's better than the fanciful cap and two fans thought it up within a twenty minute phone call. And it came with other ideas as well.
I'd have thought involvement in F1 would be particularly relevant to BMW and Mercedes in their arms-race cars, which are largely sold on the strengths of their engines.
I would also expect that building F1 engines has an indirect impact on the quality of their road engines and also that the way each companies engines, right throughout the range, are perceived is linked to the strength of both their F1 engines and also their arms-race engines.
Obviously it's very difficult to quantify these effects but I think you could make a business case for both being involved in F1 (and Audi in Le Mans for similar reasons), especially when you bear in mind that the two (three with Audi) are largely competing directly with each other for sales.
I would also expect that building F1 engines has an indirect impact on the quality of their road engines and also that the way each companies engines, right throughout the range, are perceived is linked to the strength of both their F1 engines and also their arms-race engines.
Obviously it's very difficult to quantify these effects but I think you could make a business case for both being involved in F1 (and Audi in Le Mans for similar reasons), especially when you bear in mind that the two (three with Audi) are largely competing directly with each other for sales.
A friend of mine was involved with McLaren and Tyrell sponsorship and said that part of the plus side was being associated with excellence, a sort of ‘look we must be good because McLaren have put us on their cars’. There is also the fact – in those days – that customers could be ‘rewarded’ by the prize of a Formula One Paddock Club pass. I was invited a couple of times and the wafting through the hoi poloi and into one’s own uncrowded car park inside the circuit is just the start of a very impressive day.
But, of course, with fewer European GPs, and those in countries where one can trust the water, this advantage is on the wane.
One would assume with the disappearance of Silverstone, these cherished customers will now be taken to Goodwood races or FoS, to Henley or some high spec horse races. Money and prestige lost to this country and the sport as a whole.
I don’t think that there’s an awful lot of transference of technical information between F1 and the road car engineering side but what I was told during a Honda chat was that they required their road car engineers to spend some time on the F1 project in order to make them a more rounded employee.
But I can’t help thinking that with the apparent ineptitude of Mossy and the FiA with regards to last season’s awful scandal, the FiAsco of the scoring systems, the budget about face, the personal abuse of cherished F1 icons and so much more that the image of F1 has suffered tremendously. Under Mossy’s control it’s become a joke.
But, of course, with fewer European GPs, and those in countries where one can trust the water, this advantage is on the wane.
One would assume with the disappearance of Silverstone, these cherished customers will now be taken to Goodwood races or FoS, to Henley or some high spec horse races. Money and prestige lost to this country and the sport as a whole.
I don’t think that there’s an awful lot of transference of technical information between F1 and the road car engineering side but what I was told during a Honda chat was that they required their road car engineers to spend some time on the F1 project in order to make them a more rounded employee.
But I can’t help thinking that with the apparent ineptitude of Mossy and the FiA with regards to last season’s awful scandal, the FiAsco of the scoring systems, the budget about face, the personal abuse of cherished F1 icons and so much more that the image of F1 has suffered tremendously. Under Mossy’s control it’s become a joke.
Derek Smith said:
I don’t think that there’s an awful lot of transference of technical information between F1 and the road car engineering side but what I was told during a Honda chat was that they required their road car engineers to spend some time on the F1 project in order to make them a more rounded employee.
When chatting to the then Marketing Director of Honda UK about 4 years ago he said they were in F1 because they could be and it was good for the company and the engineers to have the chance to work in the F1 environment. Makes it all the more a shame they are not there to reap the rewards of the efforts which finally look to be coming the way of the team.Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff