When was F1 fastest

[jimmy306]

I tried a search for this as i'm sure it will have been discussed before , but (unsurprisingly) it didn't turn up any results.

Which year/era of F1 produced the fastest cars around a track? secondly which year produced the cars that could theoretically go the fastest in a straight line?

Thanks, James

[touring fan]

The problem is that the circuits change and are generally slower now, for safety reasons, than they once were. So it is nearly impossible to compare cars from different era's in lap times to determine which was fastest around a give track.

For example the very powerful turbo cars of the 80's are generally regarded as the fastest-ever F1 cars and set incredible speeds around high-speed tracks like Monza & Silverstone. But the circuits have greatly changed/slowed since then and whilst engine power decreased the later non-turbo cars had far superior aero (up until this year), handling & brakes....so who knows if they would have been faster than the old turbo cars on those same circuits? Perhaps they were, but we will never know as there can't be a like-for-like comparison.

For sure the turbo cars were the quickest in a straight-line, in answer to your second question. In qualifying trim they reputedly had 1,200+ bhp.

Edited by touring fan on Thursday 23 April 08:40

Edited by touring fan on Thursday 23 April 08:42

[jimmy306]

touring fan said:

The problem is that the circuits change and are generally slower now, for safety reasons, than they once were. So it is nearly impossible to compare cars from different era's in lap times to determine which was fastest around a give track.

For example the very powerful turbo cars of the 80's are generally regarded as the fastest-ever F1 cars and set incredible speeds around high-speed tracks like Monza & Silverstone. But the circuits have greatly changed/slowed since then and whilst engine power decreased the later non-turbo cars had far superior aero (up until this year), handling & brakes....so who knows if they would have been faster than the old turbo cars on those same circuits? Perhaps they were, but we will never know as there can't be a like-for-like comparison.

For sure the turbo cars were the quickest in a straight-line, in answer to your second question.

Edited by touring fan on Thursday 23 April 08:40

Thanks for that touring fan.

Good point about the changing of circuits, would be interesting to pit an 80's turbo car against a modern F1 car in a direct race!

I wonder hoe fast an F1 car could theoretically go if all the regulations were thrown out the window, i guess the limiting factor would be the driver.

[rhinochopig]

jimmy306 said:

touring fan said:

The problem is that the circuits change and are generally slower now, for safety reasons, than they once were. So it is nearly impossible to compare cars from different era's in lap times to determine which was fastest around a give track.

For example the very powerful turbo cars of the 80's are generally regarded as the fastest-ever F1 cars and set incredible speeds around high-speed tracks like Monza & Silverstone. But the circuits have greatly changed/slowed since then and whilst engine power decreased the later non-turbo cars had far superior aero (up until this year), handling & brakes....so who knows if they would have been faster than the old turbo cars on those same circuits? Perhaps they were, but we will never know as there can't be a like-for-like comparison.

For sure the turbo cars were the quickest in a straight-line, in answer to your second question.

Edited by touring fan on Thursday 23 April 08:40

Thanks for that touring fan.

Good point about the changing of circuits, would be interesting to pit an 80's turbo car against a modern F1 car in a direct race!

I wonder hoe fast an F1 car could theoretically go if all the regulations were thrown out the window, i guess the limiting factor would be the driver.

BMW's 1.5l 4 pot was supposed to have hit circa 1500bhp in quali trim.

With regards to you last point, it wouldn't be an F1 car anymore. You'd have active aero, active suspension, ground effect, probably GT powered, 4wd and 4ws, and maybe even more than 4 wheels - the tyrrels showed great promise. They'd also probably be enclosed body designs.

Edited by rhinochopig on Thursday 23 April 08:51

[AJI]

As we are talking about F1 I think we should be using the term 'for sure' a lot more.

So ... for sure F1 cars have developed cornering speed vastly superior to that of 10, 20 years ago.
For sure the top speeds of past F1 cars were higher than those of today.

However there are for sure many other factors such as engine response, gear change time, brake performance, tyre technology....for sure all these have added to the performance over the previous generations of F1 car.

For sure it is safe to say that tracks have changed, and for sure they have changed to make them drive slower.

Can anyone determine any current F1 track which is the most like it was 10 or 20 years ago?

Monza? no..that first stupid chicane is for sure too much of a change on lap time.
Spa?..maybe this could be the closest?

But then we must for sure look at the re-surfacing of tracks and the improvements in track surface materials and methods of laying tarmac, asphalt etc.

For sure it is hard to compare car lap times of today versus yesteryear.

For sure.

[touring fan]

AJI said:

As we are talking about F1 I think we should be using the term 'for sure' a lot more.

So ... for sure F1 cars have developed cornering speed vastly superior to that of 10, 20 years ago.
For sure the top speeds of past F1 cars were higher than those of today.

However there are for sure many other factors such as engine response, gear change time, brake performance, tyre technology....for sure all these have added to the performance over the previous generations of F1 car.

For sure it is safe to say that tracks have changed, and for sure they have changed to make them drive slower.

Can anyone determine any current F1 track which is the most like it was 10 or 20 years ago?

Monza? no..that first stupid chicane is for sure too much of a change on lap time.
Spa?..maybe this could be the closest?

But then we must for sure look at the re-surfacing of tracks and the improvements in track surface materials and methods of laying tarmac, asphalt etc.

For sure it is hard to compare car lap times of today versus yesteryear.

For sure.

What's your problem, wise guy? I used the term 'for sure' only once.

[Hammerwerfer]

For sure.

[skinny]

how fast did the honda go at the salt lake speed thing a few years back when they reduced its downforce?

[chevronb37]

It was my understanding that they were at their fastest in 2004. Certainly the Pomeroy Index states the Ferrari F2004 as the quickest GP car in history. Hope that helps.

[jason-l]

Having a quick scan of Italian GP * pole and fastest laps from 1983 onward suggests the quickest car was the Williams of '92 or '93, or the Ferrari of '03 or '04. This is not surprising considering the technology and, more importantly, the fact the cars were entering an era of increasingly refined aerodynamics.

Pole positions...
1986:Teo Fabi - 1:24.078 (big boost, bonkers power)
1987: Nelson Piquet - 1:23.460 (active suspension, restricted max boost)
1992: Nigel Mansell - 1:22.221 (ALL the gizmos!)
1993: Alain Prost - 1:21.179 (even more gizmos)

Fastest lap...
2003: Michael Schumacher 1.21.832
2004: Rubens Barichello 1:21.046

The high boost turbo cars of '85 and '86 (before the boost was limited) were relatively crude straight line rocket ships in comparison. Seeing the BBC's replays of the '86 Australian GP in Adelaide reminded me of that fact.

Must stop digesting Wiki

• the fastest circuit, and one that's stayed reasonably unchanged in this period (the Lesmos were slowed IIRC)

[stifler]

The Pomeroy Index is the only real way of knowing. Try wiki.

Fastest car to date was the 2004 Ferrari. Biggest leap forward year on year was the Lotus 49 of 1967. It improved 4% or something on the Brabham of 1966.

[macleary]

Montoya's qualifying lap at Monza in 2002 was 1.20.264

The fastest lap of anywhere at 162mph average.

[chevronb37]

stifler said:

The Pomeroy Index is the only real way of knowing. Try wiki.

Fastest car to date was the 2004 Ferrari. Biggest leap forward year on year was the Lotus 49 of 1967. It improved 4% or something on the Brabham of 1966.

I think that's quite reasonable - the early 3.0L cars were a bit of a hotch-potch and the 49 was the first really good car of that era.

[FourWheelDrift]

macleary said:

Montoya's qualifying lap at Monza in 2002 was 1.20.264

The fastest lap of anywhere at 162mph average.

I was just reading that but in 2004 Rubens Barrichello's pole time was 1:20.089. I can't recall or find mention of any circuit changes and can't find record of the average lap speed either. So was this quicker in terms of speed?

[stifler]

chevronb37 said:

stifler said:

The Pomeroy Index is the only real way of knowing. Try wiki.

Fastest car to date was the 2004 Ferrari. Biggest leap forward year on year was the Lotus 49 of 1967. It improved 4% or something on the Brabham of 1966.

I think that's quite reasonable - the early 3.0L cars were a bit of a hotch-potch and the 49 was the first really good car of that era.

Motorsport did a good article on the Pomeroy index a few years ago. It explained how it worked and did a year on year comparison for the fastest cars each year starting with a 1903 Renault IIRC. The conclusion was that the Renault would lap Spa in 3 times the time of a Ferrari F2004,or something like that.

[Silent1]

touring fan said:

AJI said:

For sure.

What's your problem, wise guy? I used the term 'for sure' only once.

I don't think it was aimed at you Touring Fan, i think he was making reference to the fact that everyone in F1 now seems to use "for sure"

[entropy]

jimmy306 said:

I tried a search for this as i'm sure it will have been discussed before , but (unsurprisingly) it didn't turn up any results.

Which year/era of F1 produced the fastest cars around a track? secondly which year produced the cars that could theoretically go the fastest in a straight line?

Thanks, James

How long is a piece of string?

IMHO it's not something you can quantify because F1 is the pinnacle, it is never in stasis because technology moves on with more HP and better handling cars whether it be active suspension, aero, tyres, etc.

Take the 2005 season for instance. Lower downforce regs and the boffins still clawed it back.

[Holst]

Alot of it is down to the tires as well.

Im not sure which era had the most effective tires.
I think the new slicks for this year must give alot more grip than the groved tires. The cars have much less downforce than they used to have but lap times are still quick.. so the tires are probably whats making up the time.

I wonder how fast the 2004 cars would have been on todays super soft slicks?

[Nicholas Blair]

For sure would have to be mid 80's to early 90's. Great time and great racing for sure, for me.

[stuttgartmetal]

You need to ask my Dad that one.
He's a London Black Cab Driver, and knows everything about everything.


For sure.