Too many teams in F1?
Discussion
After losing Super Aguri there are currently 10 cars on the grid.
The budget cap rules coming out today significantly reduce the barrier to getting into F1.
Already we have Lola, Prodrive/Aston Martin, team USA (or whatever they are this week) and several GP2 teams all saying they want in. We are back to the garagistas.
There just isn't room for them on the grid, so are we going back to the days of pre qualifying? Or will they be replacing leavers?
Who could leave?
Ferrari have already said they won't stay under a budget cap, standard engines etc.
Mercedes, but that does not mean McLaren, there are other engines.
Toyota. The motor industry is broke.
BMW will they keep paying, they say so, but things can change?
STR. What is the point of this? An expensive driver training team.
Williams. Totally impotent, run by old men. Something needs to change.
Renault. Have been making noises about going for years.
So we could end up with a substantially new look grid. Maybe Brawn is the first of many.
Once again Max/Bernie have seen the sport is in danger, this time from manufacturers leaving in the recession, and they have acted for the good of the sport.
I bet the next few years in F1 are going to be some of the most exciting ever.
The budget cap rules coming out today significantly reduce the barrier to getting into F1.
Already we have Lola, Prodrive/Aston Martin, team USA (or whatever they are this week) and several GP2 teams all saying they want in. We are back to the garagistas.
There just isn't room for them on the grid, so are we going back to the days of pre qualifying? Or will they be replacing leavers?
Who could leave?
Ferrari have already said they won't stay under a budget cap, standard engines etc.
Mercedes, but that does not mean McLaren, there are other engines.
Toyota. The motor industry is broke.
BMW will they keep paying, they say so, but things can change?
STR. What is the point of this? An expensive driver training team.
Williams. Totally impotent, run by old men. Something needs to change.
Renault. Have been making noises about going for years.
So we could end up with a substantially new look grid. Maybe Brawn is the first of many.
Once again Max/Bernie have seen the sport is in danger, this time from manufacturers leaving in the recession, and they have acted for the good of the sport.
I bet the next few years in F1 are going to be some of the most exciting ever.
Nic Jones said:
Get them all to bunch up a bit in the pitlane and then there will be more room.
It always seems stupid to me that F1 has so few cars on such long tracks. The more the merrier in my opinion.
Yup, even slower cars would make it more interesting, much like the Le Mans series, but open wheel format.It always seems stupid to me that F1 has so few cars on such long tracks. The more the merrier in my opinion.
Motorsport has always relied on a career ladder, not just for the drivers but for the teams with aspirations.
Whilst the ladder has remained for the drivers the balance went out of kilter during the ninties for the entrants IMHO.
The last entrant from the junior ranks managing to set up a new F1 outfit was Stewart GP (and this was probably only acheivable with JYS contacts and reputation i imagine)
Since then F1 has been a mixture of manufacturers, established teams hanging on such as Williams and billionaires dibbing in and out of buying existing teams.
Look at the teams in GP2 like David Sears or ART GP. Massively succesful in F3000 / GP2 but no chance of getting into F1 even half competitively in the recent past.
Aston Martin / Prodrive is a good example of the future for me as it means they can enter F1 whilst still retaining a presence in sportscars (hopefully).
In the late nineties sportscars lost BMW and Toyota as they wanted to do F1 but couldn't afford to retain a presence in sportscars as well.
As such as long as we don't see a return to the likes of pre-qualifying and teams like Andrea Moda i think that this move will not only stengthen F1 but also strengthen grids and re-build the reputations of some of the other disciplines as well.
Whilst the ladder has remained for the drivers the balance went out of kilter during the ninties for the entrants IMHO.
The last entrant from the junior ranks managing to set up a new F1 outfit was Stewart GP (and this was probably only acheivable with JYS contacts and reputation i imagine)
Since then F1 has been a mixture of manufacturers, established teams hanging on such as Williams and billionaires dibbing in and out of buying existing teams.
Look at the teams in GP2 like David Sears or ART GP. Massively succesful in F3000 / GP2 but no chance of getting into F1 even half competitively in the recent past.
Aston Martin / Prodrive is a good example of the future for me as it means they can enter F1 whilst still retaining a presence in sportscars (hopefully).
In the late nineties sportscars lost BMW and Toyota as they wanted to do F1 but couldn't afford to retain a presence in sportscars as well.
As such as long as we don't see a return to the likes of pre-qualifying and teams like Andrea Moda i think that this move will not only stengthen F1 but also strengthen grids and re-build the reputations of some of the other disciplines as well.
Ferrari, McLaren, Sauber (BMW), Williams, Benetton (Renault, used to be Toleman???), etc etc etc all originated from "one man band" teams that entered Formula 1 at the very grass roots level, and have grown into the "big factory" teams that we see today.
I think that only Toyota in recent years, has started from a clean sheet with enormous corporate backing. Honda came from BAR afterall.
I think that more teams can only be a good thing for the sport in the long term. A Prodrive team with David Richards' unique style would be a breath of fresh air to the grid. Some fool might even throw some money into Tom Walkinshaw's overdraft to get TWR out to play
ETA
Keeping the 8% rule for qualifying of course ...
I think that only Toyota in recent years, has started from a clean sheet with enormous corporate backing. Honda came from BAR afterall.
I think that more teams can only be a good thing for the sport in the long term. A Prodrive team with David Richards' unique style would be a breath of fresh air to the grid. Some fool might even throw some money into Tom Walkinshaw's overdraft to get TWR out to play
ETA
Keeping the 8% rule for qualifying of course ...
Edited by mat205125 on Wednesday 29th April 11:32
mat205125 said:
Ferrari, McLaren, Sauber (BMW), Williams, Benetton (Renault, used to be Toleman???), etc etc etc all originated from "one man band" teams that entered Formula 1 at the very grass roots level, and have grown into the "big factory" teams that we see today.
I think that only Toyota in recent years, has started from a clean sheet with enormous corporate backing. Honda came from BAR afterall.
I think that more teams can only be a good thing for the sport in the long term. A Prodrive team with David Richards' unique style would be a breath of fresh air to the grid. Some fool might even throw some money into Tom Walkinshaw's overdraft to get TWR out to play
There's already enough skullduggery in F1...I think that only Toyota in recent years, has started from a clean sheet with enormous corporate backing. Honda came from BAR afterall.
I think that more teams can only be a good thing for the sport in the long term. A Prodrive team with David Richards' unique style would be a breath of fresh air to the grid. Some fool might even throw some money into Tom Walkinshaw's overdraft to get TWR out to play
mattikake said:
There can never be too many teams IMO. They used to have s
tloads years ago. All the circuits except Monaco have capability to have more cars inthe race and so they should.
The current theory seems to be a max of 24 cars in the race, so if enough extra teams jump in the ring for pre-qualifying (which should include everyone) - Q0 to get in the race will be FRANTIC!!!tloads years ago. All the circuits except Monaco have capability to have more cars inthe race and so they should.At the end of the day F1 goes through phases and cycles - if the next cycle is more teams, less manufacturers (even a 'new DFV') - rock on!
Anyone think we'll see a situation similar to Indycar, whereby we have a "core" of teams running the whole season, but with a few smaller teams dipping in and out for specific races? CART / IRL / Indycar has always had teams running part seasons or maybe even just at Indy, and whilst you *may* get some questionable drivers, minimum qualifying requirements ought to see to that, as should proper scrutineering. Personally, I've always liked the run up to the Indy 500, keeping track of what teams and drivers are getting one-off deals together and suchlike. Not sure how that would fit with the image of F1, but would be quite nice to have a bump day at Monaco, maybe a plethora of little Italian teams (those were the days) pitching up at Monza.
hornet said:
Anyone think we'll see a situation similar to Indycar, whereby we have a "core" of teams running the whole season, but with a few smaller teams dipping in and out for specific races? CART / IRL / Indycar has always had teams running part seasons or maybe even just at Indy, and whilst you *may* get some questionable drivers, minimum qualifying requirements ought to see to that, as should proper scrutineering. Personally, I've always liked the run up to the Indy 500, keeping track of what teams and drivers are getting one-off deals together and suchlike. Not sure how that would fit with the image of F1, but would be quite nice to have a bump day at Monaco, maybe a plethora of little Italian teams (those were the days) pitching up at Monza.
No, because Bernie wouldn't allow it.The little no-hoper teams were what made it for me when I was young. I loved getting the season guide and seeing who was new each year. It'd be great to get back to those days, as long as Mad Max doesn't rig the rules to give the capped teams too much of a chance as I think that goes against the ethos of F1.
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