Does Vettel have the Eye of the Tiger?
Discussion
Interesting that Vettel in arguably the fastest car at the moment seems to either not be aggresive enough or not skilled enough to get passed slower cars and is leaving him struggling to keep up with Button as Championship contender. How many times can he use the excuse of being stuck behind Hamilton,Trulli and yesterday Massa in the Grand Prix?
Surely this is his time to get the wins and points as Ferrari are odviously getting upto speed and Mclaren should have a quick car in Monaco(No high speed corners)and along with Alonso's ever improving Renault, he will have more than the Brawns to worry about over the next two races.
I am suprised that he has not taken the bull by the Horns and comments of being "stuck behind cars" are doing him no favours.
Surely this is his time to get the wins and points as Ferrari are odviously getting upto speed and Mclaren should have a quick car in Monaco(No high speed corners)and along with Alonso's ever improving Renault, he will have more than the Brawns to worry about over the next two races.
I am suprised that he has not taken the bull by the Horns and comments of being "stuck behind cars" are doing him no favours.
Edited by Wanta996Gotta on Monday 11th May 10:26
I think Vettel is a great driver but perhaps too much of a nice guy and a touch too polite.
On the Massa front I think he was hampered by a) Massa holding his line on the tight turns b) The track not being very good at promoting overtaking c) The one real opportunity area on the track where he could overtake, Massa had KERS to keep him beyond reasonable overtaking distance.
However I would wager he could of put Massa under greater pressure to push a mistake. Especially since Massa's mental calm is a touch questionable at the mo.
On the Massa front I think he was hampered by a) Massa holding his line on the tight turns b) The track not being very good at promoting overtaking c) The one real opportunity area on the track where he could overtake, Massa had KERS to keep him beyond reasonable overtaking distance.
However I would wager he could of put Massa under greater pressure to push a mistake. Especially since Massa's mental calm is a touch questionable at the mo.
you read my mind!!! 
I was just about to post a "is Vettel as good as everyone thinks?" thread!!
I think he is quick, especially in the wet, but he doesn't seem to have that edge or possibly experience when faced with a situation which means he has to realise that he needs to move track position so that he can gain time away from a mobile chicane, such as the one he faced all yesterday afternoon!! or possibly the team needs to wake up and make that call. Webber benefited from such a change.
I was just about to post a "is Vettel as good as everyone thinks?" thread!!
I think he is quick, especially in the wet, but he doesn't seem to have that edge or possibly experience when faced with a situation which means he has to realise that he needs to move track position so that he can gain time away from a mobile chicane, such as the one he faced all yesterday afternoon!! or possibly the team needs to wake up and make that call. Webber benefited from such a change.
Barcelona is notoriously hard to pass. The drivers all know that going into the race. Vettel is doing just fine so far this season and you can argue that Brawn have got a slightly quicker car anyway.
My tip for Monaco is Webber. He's always been fast there, but never had the machinery or luck to really show it.
My tip for Monaco is Webber. He's always been fast there, but never had the machinery or luck to really show it.
I think he's very fast, but needs a bit more experience on race craft.
Don't forget, he's only had 1 full season in F1 before this one.
In fairness to him, against a KERS equipped Ferrari on possibly the hardest track to overtake on this side of Monaco or Budapest, there's not a lot he could have done.
I think the more pressing more work needs to be done at Red Bull in the strategy dept. Not short-filling him to get him out ahead of the Ferrari was bizarre.
Still, while they're making mistakes, Jenson's cleaning up so long may it continue
Don't forget, he's only had 1 full season in F1 before this one.
In fairness to him, against a KERS equipped Ferrari on possibly the hardest track to overtake on this side of Monaco or Budapest, there's not a lot he could have done.
I think the more pressing more work needs to be done at Red Bull in the strategy dept. Not short-filling him to get him out ahead of the Ferrari was bizarre.
Still, while they're making mistakes, Jenson's cleaning up so long may it continue
I think he is up there as one of the fastest drivers, but not aggressive.
If you compare him to Webber, who has done some fantastic manoeuvres this season.
I'm trying to remember which race it was where Webber was tussling with someone else and made for fantastic viewing.
If you compare him to Webber, who has done some fantastic manoeuvres this season.
I'm trying to remember which race it was where Webber was tussling with someone else and made for fantastic viewing.
Edited by elster on Monday 11th May 10:44
elster said:
I think he is up there as one of the fastest drivers, but not aggressive.
If you compare him to Webber, who has done some fantastic manoeuvres this season.
I'm trying to remember which race it was where Webber was tussling with someone else and made for fantastic viewing.
Webber made Alonso look like an idiot in a KERS powered car and Jenson also did Lewis at Bahrain so in my opinion, its Balls! Some posters are talking as if KERS cars do not get overtaken, they do.If you compare him to Webber, who has done some fantastic manoeuvres this season.
I'm trying to remember which race it was where Webber was tussling with someone else and made for fantastic viewing.
Edited by elster on Monday 11th May 10:44
Edited by Wanta996Gotta on Monday 11th May 10:47
Eye of the Tiger?
No.
He's the wettest driver I've seen sonce Damon Hill? Maybe even wetter so far!
He's lost several important places and a win already because of his lack of aggression. He needs balls. He can borrow some of mine. I have plenty to spare! They call F1 drivers Gladiators for many reasons. A show of strength is one of them.
No.
He's the wettest driver I've seen sonce Damon Hill? Maybe even wetter so far!
Muzzer said:
I think he's very fast, but needs a bit more experience on race craft.
Don't forget, he's only had 1 full season in F1 before this one.
Race craft is learned much earlier on in a career - like Karting. If he hasn't got the aggression and race craft now, I'm not sure he will have. He'll get comparatively better with age/experience I'm sure, but his antics and apology in Oz for a racing incident has invited all other drivers to stick one on him first, possibly for good if not the rest of this season. Usually a win is enough to change a drivers confidence level, but that clearly hasn't happened. It would take a WDC for VET?Don't forget, he's only had 1 full season in F1 before this one.
He's lost several important places and a win already because of his lack of aggression. He needs balls. He can borrow some of mine. I have plenty to spare! They call F1 drivers Gladiators for many reasons. A show of strength is one of them.
Edited by mattikake on Monday 11th May 10:54
uktrailmonster said:
Barcelona is notoriously hard to pass. The drivers all know that going into the race. Vettel is doing just fine so far this season and you can argue that Brawn have got a slightly quicker car anyway.
My tip for Monaco is Webber. He's always been fast there, but never had the machinery or luck to really show it.
Not sure the Brawn remains fastest.My tip for Monaco is Webber. He's always been fast there, but never had the machinery or luck to really show it.
Vettel was fastest in qualifying when you adjust for fuel, and Webber was all over the back of Barrichello in 3rd towards the end of the race despite being 5th in the early stages.
I reckon the Red Bull was very slightly quicker at Barcelona but Vettel's average start and inability to pass Massa let the Brawns run away at the front unhindered.
He seemed aggressive enough when he got tangled up with Kubica in Australia.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPG53jmPUqQ
(sorry for the crap video but it's the best I can find for now)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPG53jmPUqQ
(sorry for the crap video but it's the best I can find for now)
sniff diesel said:
He seemed aggressive enough when he got tangled up with Kubica in Australia.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPG53jmPUqQ
(sorry for the crap video but it's the best I can find for now)
I wouldnt call writing your car off as aggresive - More stupid. Aggresive is what Webber did to Alonso.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPG53jmPUqQ
(sorry for the crap video but it's the best I can find for now)
Wanta996Gotta said:
sniff diesel said:
He seemed aggressive enough when he got tangled up with Kubica in Australia.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPG53jmPUqQ
(sorry for the crap video but it's the best I can find for now)
I wouldnt call writing your car off as aggresive - More stupid. Aggresive is what Webber did to Alonso.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPG53jmPUqQ
(sorry for the crap video but it's the best I can find for now)
I think Vettel will settle into being a very fast F1 driver over the years.
With more experience, he'd pass Massa in the early laps like Webber did on Alonso and Button did on Hamilton. Not least cos he'd know he had to, but also cos he'd have the experience to know what he could get away with based on respective fuel loads, tyre compounds, a relatively clean "dirty" part of the track...
What's very clear is that the longer the race goes on, the harder it is to pass offline. You have to get the pass done early while you have fresh tyres. Take the edge off the tyres and the mountain is a lot harder to climb.
At the moment I'm not surprised that his best performances have been when he's at the front and not being bothered by other F1 drivers with a lot more racing miles under their belts. He can drive fast and rattle off consistent laps, but the in-traffic racing speed isn't quite there yet. It will come though.
With more experience, he'd pass Massa in the early laps like Webber did on Alonso and Button did on Hamilton. Not least cos he'd know he had to, but also cos he'd have the experience to know what he could get away with based on respective fuel loads, tyre compounds, a relatively clean "dirty" part of the track...
What's very clear is that the longer the race goes on, the harder it is to pass offline. You have to get the pass done early while you have fresh tyres. Take the edge off the tyres and the mountain is a lot harder to climb.
At the moment I'm not surprised that his best performances have been when he's at the front and not being bothered by other F1 drivers with a lot more racing miles under their belts. He can drive fast and rattle off consistent laps, but the in-traffic racing speed isn't quite there yet. It will come though.
FNG said:
I think Vettel will settle into being a very fast F1 driver over the years.
With more experience, he'd pass Massa in the early laps like Webber did on Alonso and Button did on Hamilton. Not least cos he'd know he had to, but also cos he'd have the experience to know what he could get away with based on respective fuel loads, tyre compounds, a relatively clean "dirty" part of the track...
What's very clear is that the longer the race goes on, the harder it is to pass offline. You have to get the pass done early while you have fresh tyres. Take the edge off the tyres and the mountain is a lot harder to climb.
At the moment I'm not surprised that his best performances have been when he's at the front and not being bothered by other F1 drivers with a lot more racing miles under their belts. He can drive fast and rattle off consistent laps, but the in-traffic racing speed isn't quite there yet. It will come though.
You guys seem to be missing the point, he has the car to do it now! He does not have time to wait until Mclaren and Ferrari catch up as i believe they will come Turkey. If Jenson wins in Monaco and Turkey then i think its all over.With more experience, he'd pass Massa in the early laps like Webber did on Alonso and Button did on Hamilton. Not least cos he'd know he had to, but also cos he'd have the experience to know what he could get away with based on respective fuel loads, tyre compounds, a relatively clean "dirty" part of the track...
What's very clear is that the longer the race goes on, the harder it is to pass offline. You have to get the pass done early while you have fresh tyres. Take the edge off the tyres and the mountain is a lot harder to climb.
At the moment I'm not surprised that his best performances have been when he's at the front and not being bothered by other F1 drivers with a lot more racing miles under their belts. He can drive fast and rattle off consistent laps, but the in-traffic racing speed isn't quite there yet. It will come though.
Mclaren and Ferrari wont be as bad next year, Vettel has to do it now!
he's a good driver in a good car but agree he has to do it now. maybe the team have to look at their strategy, maybe they should just bolt on the KERS (although they wont do that because it will disadvantage webber too much and they cant have one with and one without.
I like Vettel and would really like to see some "balls out" driving from him.
I like Vettel and would really like to see some "balls out" driving from him.
Wanta996Gotta said:
elster said:
I think he is up there as one of the fastest drivers, but not aggressive.
If you compare him to Webber, who has done some fantastic manoeuvres this season.
I'm trying to remember which race it was where Webber was tussling with someone else and made for fantastic viewing.
Webber made Alonso look like an idiot in a KERS powered car and Jenson also did Lewis at Bahrain so in my opinion, its Balls! Some posters are talking as if KERS cars do not get overtaken, they do.If you compare him to Webber, who has done some fantastic manoeuvres this season.
I'm trying to remember which race it was where Webber was tussling with someone else and made for fantastic viewing.
Edited by elster on Monday 11th May 10:44
Edited by Wanta996Gotta on Monday 11th May 10:47
Wanta996Gotta said:
FNG said:
I think Vettel will settle into being a very fast F1 driver over the years.
With more experience, he'd pass Massa in the early laps like Webber did on Alonso and Button did on Hamilton. Not least cos he'd know he had to, but also cos he'd have the experience to know what he could get away with based on respective fuel loads, tyre compounds, a relatively clean "dirty" part of the track...
What's very clear is that the longer the race goes on, the harder it is to pass offline. You have to get the pass done early while you have fresh tyres. Take the edge off the tyres and the mountain is a lot harder to climb.
At the moment I'm not surprised that his best performances have been when he's at the front and not being bothered by other F1 drivers with a lot more racing miles under their belts. He can drive fast and rattle off consistent laps, but the in-traffic racing speed isn't quite there yet. It will come though.
You guys seem to be missing the point, he has the car to do it now! He does not have time to wait until Mclaren and Ferrari catch up as i believe they will come Turkey. If Jenson wins in Monaco and Turkey then i think its all over.With more experience, he'd pass Massa in the early laps like Webber did on Alonso and Button did on Hamilton. Not least cos he'd know he had to, but also cos he'd have the experience to know what he could get away with based on respective fuel loads, tyre compounds, a relatively clean "dirty" part of the track...
What's very clear is that the longer the race goes on, the harder it is to pass offline. You have to get the pass done early while you have fresh tyres. Take the edge off the tyres and the mountain is a lot harder to climb.
At the moment I'm not surprised that his best performances have been when he's at the front and not being bothered by other F1 drivers with a lot more racing miles under their belts. He can drive fast and rattle off consistent laps, but the in-traffic racing speed isn't quite there yet. It will come though.
Mclaren and Ferrari wont be as bad next year, Vettel has to do it now!
I haven't missed the point, I know he has the car.What I said above was that he hasn't got the experience.
Unless and until the Red Bull gets fast enough for him to be able to stick it on pole and drive away from the field, he's not going to make the most of the opportunity that this car presents.
It's no good saying he needs to take every chance he gets to win - he's not got all the tools in his armoury to do that yet.
If Red Bull fuel him lighter to get pole next time, he's got a chance. If he's next to a KERS car and is beaten off the startline, I expect to see more races like yesterday from him - for now.
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