RE: McLaren Looks To 2010
Wednesday 3rd June 2009
In the wall: a handy metaphor for McLaren's formThe McLaren Formula One team is looking at effectively writing the 2009 season and car off as a bad job and concentrating its efforts on the 2010 season.
Hamilton trails Button by 42 points after six racesWith the team trailing championship leaders Brawn GP by 73 points, however, and Lewis Hamilton 42 points behind Jenson Button, 2009 does look increasingly bleak for the Woking team.
McLaren Looks To 2010
Championship hopes fade fast for Hamilton as team boss admits 2009 may be a write-off
In the wall: a handy metaphor for McLaren's form
McLaren CEO Martin Whitmarsh admitted in an interview with the Spanish El Pais newspaper that focussing on next year at the expense of the development of its MP4/24 car is 'is one of the possibilities, but we haven’t yet arrived at that point.'
Despite the fact that the Mercedes team is having its worst start to a world championship since 2004, Whitmarsh isn’t calling time on his team’s hopes for 2009 just yet. 'We are going to all the races with the intention to win,” said Whitmarsh. “Giving up is not our style.'
Hamilton trails Button by 42 points after six races
Whitmarsh was also surprisingly lukewarm about Brawn’s achievements, saying the car was based on Honda’s 2008 development budget, including 'four wind tunnels and hundreds of millions of euros'.
Of course, with the technical regulations for 2010 so up in the air, you do have to wonder exactly what McLaren's designers and engineers are going to focus their efforts on
Discussion
Mini1275 said:
Come on Hamilton, im backing you for next years title!
The best f1 driver will be back!
Thats the spirit! I'ts disappointing to see him having such a bad season so far after the last couple of year's achievements, but i don't really think there's any reason for Whitmarsh to knock Brawn's achievements either. Brawn are racing well and its refreshing to see a new team having a successful season too. Big fan of Jenson, but even bigger fan of Lewis, and he'll be back fighting at the top next season.The best f1 driver will be back!
Me too,he's doing well considering the car he's got,i agree it's a good idea to start concentrating on next years car.I imagine that McLaren's major worry is that Ferrari have pulled a second a lap back on the frontrunners in a matter of weeks, while McLaren have gained maybe half that. If the traditional main competitor has that much of an inherent car advantage, it's unlikely to be recovered regardless of the resource thrown at a car with a fundamental problem.
With the diminishing returns that are gained once the easier improvements have been done, which you'd have to assume they have by now, I can understand that their choice is either abandon this car and focus on 2010, or develop a B-spec for introduction later in the season.
As the tech regs for 2010 aren't yet decided they may as well keep developing this year's car. But when the regs are known I imagine the only sensible way forward is to "do a Brawn" and write off this season.
I'd expect BMW to do exactly the same - if they stay in the game. Mind you, starting on KERS earlier than anyone else hasn't helped them this year.
With the diminishing returns that are gained once the easier improvements have been done, which you'd have to assume they have by now, I can understand that their choice is either abandon this car and focus on 2010, or develop a B-spec for introduction later in the season.
As the tech regs for 2010 aren't yet decided they may as well keep developing this year's car. But when the regs are known I imagine the only sensible way forward is to "do a Brawn" and write off this season.
I'd expect BMW to do exactly the same - if they stay in the game. Mind you, starting on KERS earlier than anyone else hasn't helped them this year.
Does anyone else think that "doing a Brawn" and developing nexts years car so early is ruining F1?
The competition this year has been cr@p at best. Good to see Ferrari making a real effort, but BMW, Toyota and Merc moving onto next year.
Next year, Brawn back to being a mid-field runner as they develop this years car, not next years.
The FIA need to stop pi$$ing around and at least freeze the regs for a couple of years.
AG
The competition this year has been cr@p at best. Good to see Ferrari making a real effort, but BMW, Toyota and Merc moving onto next year.
Next year, Brawn back to being a mid-field runner as they develop this years car, not next years.
The FIA need to stop pi$$ing around and at least freeze the regs for a couple of years.
AG
Adrian Gumball said:
Does anyone else think that "doing a Brawn" and developing nexts years car so early is ruining F1?
The competition this year has been cr@p at best. Good to see Ferrari making a real effort, but BMW, Toyota and Merc moving onto next year.
Next year, Brawn back to being a mid-field runner as they develop this years car, not next years.
The FIA need to stop pi$$ing around and at least freeze the regs for a couple of years.
AG
Agree with you regarding freezing the regulations, this constant shifting of the goal posts makes it hard for teams to develop this years car and still use that knowledge and car as a basis for the following year. How many variations of the MP4 did McLaren eventually have... that has got to help reduce the costs also.The competition this year has been cr@p at best. Good to see Ferrari making a real effort, but BMW, Toyota and Merc moving onto next year.
Next year, Brawn back to being a mid-field runner as they develop this years car, not next years.
The FIA need to stop pi$$ing around and at least freeze the regs for a couple of years.
AG
"Doing a Brawn" though is not ruining F1, as it has only happened once, and so far this season is, for me anyway, enthralling. Apart from Jenson up front, and for different reasons each race each win has never been certainty, the racing has been better. The field is closer than it has ever been, only Brawn consistency has put it ahead as the other teams can't put together a consistent attack. Brawn has not always been the fastest car either, just the most consistent. Brawn will remain a front runner, of that I am sure. Money is not the only way to develop 2 cars, talent, organisation and proper planning is another which Brawn has in spades.
For me, KERS has killed the competition... they are behind because they focussed on the KERS technology at the expense of the car... look at the teams struggling, McLaren, Ferrari, BMW, Renault... all front runners last year, all focussed on the KERS and tried/failed to run it this year.
dpbird90 said:
That's fair enough, Hamilton is not doing too badly with the piece of s
te he's got, in quite a few points finishes and I predict more, the only problem I can see with McLaren effectively "doing a Honda" is that Mercedes will also "do a Honda" and pull out.
Why would mercedes pull out? They are making enginesoonly not the costs of the car, and these are powering the cars leading the championship! Also they may have a market in the new teams as I think the reliablikty of the engine in the Brawns and the improvment over the orignal Honda engines will tempt some more teams to be customers? te he's got, in quite a few points finishes and I predict more, the only problem I can see with McLaren effectively "doing a Honda" is that Mercedes will also "do a Honda" and pull out.I wouldn't want to buy off Ferarri / BMW as you would be racing against their works teams, if you know what I mean? Better to have a 3rd party engine maker like Cosworth or Mercedes?
Even though 2009 looks like it will be a mediocre year for McLaren, it will give Lewis an opportunity to demonstrate his ability. If he pins his ears back and gets some solid results it will enhance his reputation. After all, one of the signs of a great driver is his performance in a poor car.
Steamer said:
As harsh as it sounds - it will do the lad good.
Got to agree with that. A few setbacks never did anyone any harm and if he comes back to win the championship 1/2/3 years later it'll show that along with his talent and ability, he's got resilience.That's why i'm keen on Button doing well this year. For whatever reason he's been out in the wilderness for fair ol while but he's hung on in there and now seems to be reaping some rewards.
alanruss said:
dpbird90 said:
That's fair enough, Hamilton is not doing too badly with the piece of ste he's got, in quite a few points finishes and I predict more, the only problem I can see with McLaren effectively "doing a Honda" is that Mercedes will also "do a Honda" and pull out.
Why would mercedes pull out? They are making enginesoonly not the costs of the car, and these are powering the cars leading the championship! Also they may have a market in the new teams as I think the reliablikty of the engine in the Brawns and the improvment over the orignal Honda engines will tempt some more teams to be customers? te he's got, in quite a few points finishes and I predict more, the only problem I can see with McLaren effectively "doing a Honda" is that Mercedes will also "do a Honda" and pull out.I wouldn't want to buy off Ferarri / BMW as you would be racing against their works teams, if you know what I mean? Better to have a 3rd party engine maker like Cosworth or Mercedes?
Of course this is just a theory. But if it happens, who will supply McLaren? Definitely not Peugeot, after the disaster that was their 1994 car.
tigger_ said:
For me, KERS has killed the competition... they are behind because they focussed on the KERS technology at the expense of the car... look at the teams struggling, McLaren, Ferrari, BMW, Renault... all front runners last year, all focussed on the KERS and tried/failed to run it this year.
The effect of KERS could fall either way.At present, the FIA imposes an artifical limit on its usage. If that limit were to be lifted, the system could be exploited more fully.
If F1 were to go to a standardised KERS, as has been mooted, then the effort that the KERS teams have made so far would have been wasted.
If the rule were to remain unchanged, or if the limit were lifted, then it's possible that the teams that are already part-way down the learning curve could turn KERS into a competitive advantage in the future.
flemke said:
tigger_ said:
For me, KERS has killed the competition... they are behind because they focussed on the KERS technology at the expense of the car... look at the teams struggling, McLaren, Ferrari, BMW, Renault... all front runners last year, all focussed on the KERS and tried/failed to run it this year.
The effect of KERS could fall either way.At present, the FIA imposes an artifical limit on its usage. If that limit were to be lifted, the system could be exploited more fully.
If F1 were to go to a standardised KERS, as has been mooted, then the effort that the KERS teams have made so far would have been wasted.
If the rule were to remain unchanged, or if the limit were lifted, then it's possible that the teams that are already part-way down the learning curve could turn KERS into a competitive advantage in the future.
CypherP said:
Brawn are racing well and its refreshing to see a new team having a successful season too. Big fan of Jenson, but even bigger fan of Lewis, and he'll be back fighting at the top next season.
Brawn isn’t a new team. (Bernie just keeps referring to Brawn as a new team and the press, through lack of understanding or questioning, follow suit.) It’s an old team (formerly Tyrrell, then BAR Honda, then Honda) under new ownership and a new name. It’s the same legal entity. It has the benefit of previous investment by Honda. When they brought Brawn in for 2008, it was decided to focus on a championship-contending car for 2009 at the expense of 2008. (Which makes Honda’s decision to sell up before seeing the fruits of its investment curious.)That’s not to detract from the achievements of Brawn this season. But it shows what a strategy can achieve - and how important it is to have a consistent set of regulations so the teams can plan and budget effectively without wasting money on developing for rules that change. Totally agree with these comments:
tigger_ said:
Adrian Gumball said:
The FIA need to stop pi$$ing around and at least freeze the regs for a couple of years.
AG
Agree with you regarding freezing the regulations, this constant shifting of the goal posts makes it hard for teams to develop this years car and still use that knowledge and car as a basis for the following year. How many variations of the MP4 did McLaren eventually have... that has got to help reduce the costs also. [...]AG
For me, KERS has killed the competition... they are behind because they focussed on the KERS technology at the expense of the car... look at the teams struggling, McLaren, Ferrari, BMW, Renault... all front runners last year, all focussed on the KERS and tried/failed to run it this year.
But you can’t blame BMW, Toyota etc for trying to make the KERS system work. The FIA criticised the teams for spending money on ‘irrelevant’ R&D and made it clear it wanted to introduce this type of technology, so they have made the effort to accommodate the FIA’s wishes and embraced it.
It’s a shame the FIA decided to make KERS only optional this year and compulsory from next year - it’s created a two-tier hierarchy. If it had been imposed on everyone at the same time, all teams would have been susceptible to reliability/teething issues at the same time (or would have stood out for not having any). The two-tier disparity may well continue next year, but potentially in reverse as those teams that have not run KERS this year struggle with its implementation, while the teams that have run it this year will have a year’s experience to draw from.
The lack of competition across the field that results from this two-tier effect would be further exaggerated if the FIA pushes through its proposed 2010 regulations with teams able to choose between (a) accepting a budget cap but having technical freedom and (b) having no budget cap but only limited scope for technical development.
dpbird90 said:
flemke said:
tigger_ said:
For me, KERS has killed the competition... they are behind because they focussed on the KERS technology at the expense of the car... look at the teams struggling, McLaren, Ferrari, BMW, Renault... all front runners last year, all focussed on the KERS and tried/failed to run it this year.
The effect of KERS could fall either way.At present, the FIA imposes an artifical limit on its usage. If that limit were to be lifted, the system could be exploited more fully.
If F1 were to go to a standardised KERS, as has been mooted, then the effort that the KERS teams have made so far would have been wasted.
If the rule were to remain unchanged, or if the limit were lifted, then it's possible that the teams that are already part-way down the learning curve could turn KERS into a competitive advantage in the future.
Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff