Nascar on road courses...
Discussion
Care to talk about what you were entertained by?
I like it when Nascar gets around to the road courses so I can see how the cars and drivers cope with a more dynamic track. The lack of aerodynamic sensitivity and fendered wheels really paid dividends in sundays race; cars were nose to tail and side by side often, and one had faith that the following cars could challenge those in front. The big body roll and long braking zones allowed one to take in the cars' big yaw angles, in contrast to F1 where those moments blink by too fast for one to really contemplate them. There was also a refreshingly rare shot of Boris Said's feet as he drove around the track. I loved watching how he used the brake pedal, got on the gas, and performed clutchless up-shifts.
One frustration for me: even though it's part of Nascar, I don't like the bump and spin move. There was too much of it. It just killed the momentum of the race, and made the field look amateurish. I don't like it on ovals, and I didn't enjoy last Sunday at Sears point. They also might look to cut down the field a bit for the track. It was absolutely stuffed with cars, and they aren't tiny! Does anyone think the yellow two laps from the end might've been unnecessary?
I like it when Nascar gets around to the road courses so I can see how the cars and drivers cope with a more dynamic track. The lack of aerodynamic sensitivity and fendered wheels really paid dividends in sundays race; cars were nose to tail and side by side often, and one had faith that the following cars could challenge those in front. The big body roll and long braking zones allowed one to take in the cars' big yaw angles, in contrast to F1 where those moments blink by too fast for one to really contemplate them. There was also a refreshingly rare shot of Boris Said's feet as he drove around the track. I loved watching how he used the brake pedal, got on the gas, and performed clutchless up-shifts.
One frustration for me: even though it's part of Nascar, I don't like the bump and spin move. There was too much of it. It just killed the momentum of the race, and made the field look amateurish. I don't like it on ovals, and I didn't enjoy last Sunday at Sears point. They also might look to cut down the field a bit for the track. It was absolutely stuffed with cars, and they aren't tiny! Does anyone think the yellow two laps from the end might've been unnecessary?
35secToNuvolari said:
Care to talk about what you were entertained by?
I like it when Nascar gets around to the road courses so I can see how the cars and drivers cope with a more dynamic track. The lack of aerodynamic sensitivity and fendered wheels really paid dividends in sundays race; cars were nose to tail and side by side often, and one had faith that the following cars could challenge those in front. The big body roll and long braking zones allowed one to take in the cars' big yaw angles, in contrast to F1 where those moments blink by too fast for one to really contemplate them. There was also a refreshingly rare shot of Boris Said's feet as he drove around the track. I loved watching how he used the brake pedal, got on the gas, and performed clutchless up-shifts.
One frustration for me: even though it's part of Nascar, I don't like the bump and spin move. There was too much of it. It just killed the momentum of the race, and made the field look amateurish. I don't like it on ovals, and I didn't enjoy last Sunday at Sears point. They also might look to cut down the field a bit for the track. It was absolutely stuffed with cars, and they aren't tiny! Does anyone think the yellow two laps from the end might've been unnecessary?
And that is *why* I didnt talk about what I liked per se about the race. You just did and managed to make it sound duller than day old vomit.I like it when Nascar gets around to the road courses so I can see how the cars and drivers cope with a more dynamic track. The lack of aerodynamic sensitivity and fendered wheels really paid dividends in sundays race; cars were nose to tail and side by side often, and one had faith that the following cars could challenge those in front. The big body roll and long braking zones allowed one to take in the cars' big yaw angles, in contrast to F1 where those moments blink by too fast for one to really contemplate them. There was also a refreshingly rare shot of Boris Said's feet as he drove around the track. I loved watching how he used the brake pedal, got on the gas, and performed clutchless up-shifts.
One frustration for me: even though it's part of Nascar, I don't like the bump and spin move. There was too much of it. It just killed the momentum of the race, and made the field look amateurish. I don't like it on ovals, and I didn't enjoy last Sunday at Sears point. They also might look to cut down the field a bit for the track. It was absolutely stuffed with cars, and they aren't tiny! Does anyone think the yellow two laps from the end might've been unnecessary?
Bump and spin is a great piece of NASCAR
35secToNuvolari said:
Care to talk about what you were entertained by?
I like it when Nascar gets around to the road courses so I can see how the cars and drivers cope with a more dynamic track. The lack of aerodynamic sensitivity and fendered wheels really paid dividends in sundays race; cars were nose to tail and side by side often, and one had faith that the following cars could challenge those in front. The big body roll and long braking zones allowed one to take in the cars' big yaw angles, in contrast to F1 where those moments blink by too fast for one to really contemplate them. There was also a refreshingly rare shot of Boris Said's feet as he drove around the track. I loved watching how he used the brake pedal, got on the gas, and performed clutchless up-shifts.
One frustration for me: even though it's part of Nascar, I don't like the bump and spin move. There was too much of it. It just killed the momentum of the race, and made the field look amateurish. I don't like it on ovals, and I didn't enjoy last Sunday at Sears point. They also might look to cut down the field a bit for the track. It was absolutely stuffed with cars, and they aren't tiny! Does anyone think the yellow two laps from the end might've been unnecessary?
In some circumstances, the "bump and spin" move is accepted within the sport, although I'd agree that it seems thuggish and can devalue the racing. Alternatively, we have had Enrique Bernoldi in an Arrows holding up Coulthard in a McLaren for 40 laps, so sometimes bumping might be the less-bad option.I like it when Nascar gets around to the road courses so I can see how the cars and drivers cope with a more dynamic track. The lack of aerodynamic sensitivity and fendered wheels really paid dividends in sundays race; cars were nose to tail and side by side often, and one had faith that the following cars could challenge those in front. The big body roll and long braking zones allowed one to take in the cars' big yaw angles, in contrast to F1 where those moments blink by too fast for one to really contemplate them. There was also a refreshingly rare shot of Boris Said's feet as he drove around the track. I loved watching how he used the brake pedal, got on the gas, and performed clutchless up-shifts.
One frustration for me: even though it's part of Nascar, I don't like the bump and spin move. There was too much of it. It just killed the momentum of the race, and made the field look amateurish. I don't like it on ovals, and I didn't enjoy last Sunday at Sears point. They also might look to cut down the field a bit for the track. It was absolutely stuffed with cars, and they aren't tiny! Does anyone think the yellow two laps from the end might've been unnecessary?
We see the bumping most often on the short tracks, where the speeds are lower and it's tougher to find a second fast line. At Sonoma, although there did seem to be a bit of tactical bumping, most of the bumping and taking guys out was caused by getting braking distances wrong or cars' being upset by the kerbs. Then you had the Boris Said phenomenon - I don't know what he was thinking of, but rarely have I seen anyone drive like such a tit.
Bumping a slower car out of the way at a short track like Bristol is fine, with the steep banking they slide up the track a lane and can continue without going in the wall while the person behind can go underneath. It sometimes backfires, at a Nationwide race earlier in the year the second place can ran into the leader in the closing laps, they both slid up the track and the third place car came through to win.
You don't see it at the bigger ovals because the consequence is a huge wreck. At a road course it sometimes has a domino effect - see the 99 using the 6 as extra braking who ended up punted into the 88, causing the 6 and 88 to spin and lose 25 places each while the 99 continued. That I don't like so much.
You don't see it at the bigger ovals because the consequence is a huge wreck. At a road course it sometimes has a domino effect - see the 99 using the 6 as extra braking who ended up punted into the 88, causing the 6 and 88 to spin and lose 25 places each while the 99 continued. That I don't like so much.
35secToNuvolari said:
DJC said:
And that is *why* I didnt talk about what I liked per se about the race. You just did and managed to make it sound duller than day old vomit.
Yes, you succeeded marvellously. Your post was scintillating. I was only trying to be polite.as regards bump n grind, well i have posted on here before the difference between nascar attitudes and european attitudes. it is more accepted there as a consequence of lots of metal in a crowded area at speed, rather than deliberate tactics. yes rubbin is racing, but its an inherent aspect of the sport not a false driving tactic introduced so you learn from the start about it. in general nascar driving is exceedingly polite and well mannered. they look to help each other and often at detriment to their own performance at times.
bottom line though is that when you watch nascar all you want to say at the of a race was....that was frigging awesome!
DJC said:
well i have posted on here before the difference between nascar attitudes and european attitudes. it is more accepted there as a consequence of lots of metal in a crowded area at speed, rather than deliberate tactics.
I've not done a calculation, but I'd guess that I've seen more frequent deliberate spinning of other drivers in European touring car racing (BTCC, Supercup, etc.) than I've seen in NASCAR. DJC said:
35secToNuvolari said:
DJC said:
And that is *why* I didnt talk about what I liked per se about the race. You just did and managed to make it sound duller than day old vomit.
Yes, you succeeded marvellously. Your post was scintillating. I was only trying to be polite.quote]
And you were very rude to someone who had the courtesy to reply to your post.
kusee pee said:
DJC said:
35secToNuvolari said:
DJC said:
And that is *why* I didnt talk about what I liked per se about the race. You just did and managed to make it sound duller than day old vomit.
Yes, you succeeded marvellously. Your post was scintillating. I was only trying to be polite.quote]
And you were very rude to someone who had the courtesy to reply to your post.
People who want to discuss the importance of detail when the detail is irrelevent to the context. When the outside world looks in at cars and motor racing it looks not at the detail crap, but at the wider, grander picture. The spectacle sells and Nascar delivers in that field. Caring about the need for yellows 2 laps from the end? It doesnt matter why, all it matters is they came out and what happened from then on in and how it ramped up the tension and the drama and frankly improved the entertainment value.
DJC said:
kusee pee said:
DJC said:
35secToNuvolari said:
DJC said:
And that is *why* I didnt talk about what I liked per se about the race. You just did and managed to make it sound duller than day old vomit.
Yes, you succeeded marvellously. Your post was scintillating. I was only trying to be polite.quote]
And you were very rude to someone who had the courtesy to reply to your post.
People who want to discuss the importance of detail when the detail is irrelevent to the context. When the outside world looks in at cars and motor racing it looks not at the detail crap, but at the wider, grander picture. The spectacle sells and Nascar delivers in that field. Caring about the need for yellows 2 laps from the end? It doesnt matter why, all it matters is they came out and what happened from then on in and how it ramped up the tension and the drama and frankly improved the entertainment value.
As far as me mentioning the yellow...
I thought that Stewart was giving good chase in the final laps, and I would've liked to see the momentum carried all the way to the end of the race. They threw the yellow because someone spun on track, and maybe it was necessary, I don't know, but to me it seemed like they were looking for any excuse to throw a yellow and have another side by side start. Afterwards, it never looked like Stewart was able to get as close to Ambrose, and the suspense was interrupted.
I thought that Stewart was giving good chase in the final laps, and I would've liked to see the momentum carried all the way to the end of the race. They threw the yellow because someone spun on track, and maybe it was necessary, I don't know, but to me it seemed like they were looking for any excuse to throw a yellow and have another side by side start. Afterwards, it never looked like Stewart was able to get as close to Ambrose, and the suspense was interrupted.
flemke said:
Fane said:
I think it's actually referred to as "bump and run."
Not sure if you're being facetious. 
"Bump and run" is a technique in American football, in which the wide receiver deliberately blocks the cornerback off the line in order to gain a step on him.
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