Whats with the lack of Support for Jens?

[pugwash4x4]

I've been a big Button supporter since he started in F1, but don't really understand why some people seem to knock him, so i'm asking the PH massive! For some reason Hamilton is treated as being godlike (and i'm really really not convinced of that), but every time Button has a great race, people say its luck, or the car, and every time he has a bad race everyone says its him!

Conversely Hamilton can do no wrong, which is weird as to be honest i don't seem him as being head and shoulders above the other drivers (in my heart of hearts, i really beleive that there is very very little difference in skill between the drivers, its mostly down to the car and how a driver manages the team around him- schuey was so amazing because he could communicate so effectively with his engineers). In reality Jenson has had some very very good drives and consistently and constantly outperforms Rubens, who himself is a darn good driver.

On the fkip side i want to see Lewis do well because he's also British- i like Jens more because he isn't so "nice"!

SO- whats the crak guys? why do people get so tribal over race drivers and hamilton in particular?

[stew-S160]

people prefer to dislike someone than like them.

[SRT77]

I just think Hamilton is more racy and more likely to try a less than dead cert overtaking move. Jenson seems like a nice guy, but all too often reverts to his wingy side if things are less than perfect. He sounded like he was almost crying on the team radio in Hungary.

[stifler]

Blame the british press for putting someone up on a pedestal then knocking them right back off it again. Just the same as Lewis being unpopular in the British press at the start of the year because he wasn't wining. Now that Jenson has had 3 races, yes people that's a grand total of 3 whole races, without a win, people are saying that he is st. Of course the people that write the F1 stuff for the gutter press wouldn't recognise a great drive, they only listen to the commentary then write their view based on that. Unfortunatly the real fans of F1 and racing in general don't get a look in when they voice an opinion ie Fisichella had an awesome drive at Silverstone, only to be met with "But he didn't win did he?".

The best thing to do is to ignore the mouth-breathing masses and stick to your own conclusions.

[SeeFive]

With no axe to grind at all, I'd suggest it is something to do with the fact that LH is one of the few drivers on the grid today that is a true racer, with an exuberant driving style who can wring the best out of a good or poor car.

Button is a smooth, quick race car driver when in a good car - like the majority of the others.

So, by most with no axe to grind, he is not seen as exceptional.

[Mini1275]

SRT77 said:

I just think Hamilton is more racy and more likely to try a less than dead cert overtaking move. Jenson seems like a nice guy, but all too often reverts to his wingy side if things are less than perfect. He sounded like he was almost crying on the team radio in Hungary.

+1
Lewis does what he is meant to do, Race. I like Jenson but i think he is only good if the car is good. He is starting to make excuses for him not winning the championship, he should believe in himself!
GO HAMILTON!

Edited by Mini1275 on Thursday 30th July 11:03

[A911DOM]

I think its just the lack of 'visible fighting spirit' from Jenson (as for the comment above about him sounding like he was crying in his radio - Im sure you'd sound pretty 'stressed' travelling at that sort of speed, pulling those sort of 'G's on what is renowned as a very physical circuit).

I too enjoy watching him race and when you're standing next to the track you can see the difference with his 'smoother' driving style etc, but it doesnt look exciting to the masses.

I wish Jenson well this season and hope Brawn can get their act back together, but have a nasty feeling that RedBull are going to nick it from under his nose due to more consistent car improvements.

[crossle]

He's wealthy and successful enough not to need my support...

I still like seeing him win though!

[pugwash4x4]

Mini1275 said:

SRT77 said:

I just think Hamilton is more racy and more likely to try a less than dead cert overtaking move. Jenson seems like a nice guy, but all too often reverts to his wingy side if things are less than perfect. He sounded like he was almost crying on the team radio in Hungary.

+1
Lewis does what he is meant to do, Race. I like Jenson but i think he is only good if the car is good. He is starting to make excuses for him not winning the championship, he should believe in himself!
GO HAMILTON!

Edited by Mini1275 on Thursday 30th July 11:03

I don't think that's true- he has had some historic races in his time and seems to get the most out of the car- he beats Rubens continuously, and Rubens as number 2 driver used to give schuey a run for his money.

Hamilton races well when the car is working, but having watched him a couple of times this season, i really don't think he's got the best out of the car all the time.

Seems to be a huge amount of hype about Hamilton but little to prove his brilliance! For example- people compare Lewis to Schue- why?

[Wanta996Gotta]

pugwash4x4 said:

Mini1275 said:

SRT77 said:

I just think Hamilton is more racy and more likely to try a less than dead cert overtaking move. Jenson seems like a nice guy, but all too often reverts to his wingy side if things are less than perfect. He sounded like he was almost crying on the team radio in Hungary.

+1
Lewis does what he is meant to do, Race. I like Jenson but i think he is only good if the car is good. He is starting to make excuses for him not winning the championship, he should believe in himself!
GO HAMILTON!

Edited by Mini1275 on Thursday 30th July 11:03

I don't think that's true- he has had some historic races in his time and seems to get the most out of the car- he beats Rubens continuously, and Rubens as number 2 driver used to give schuey a run for his money.

Hamilton races well when the car is working, but having watched him a couple of times this season, i really don't think he's got the best out of the car all the time.

Seems to be a huge amount of hype about Hamilton but little to prove his brilliance! For example- people compare Lewis to Schue- why?

Little to prove his Brilliance? 2nd and 1st in his first 2 years in F1?? Maybe that has a little to do with it.

[IanMorewood]

Button – showed lots of promise, got a massive pay off, fame/money went to his head, delivered almost nothing, lost his job now fighting for survival and doing a pretty good job.
Hamilton – turned up from no were to beat a double world champion in the same car, missed the world championship by one point, won the world championship a year later, struggling this year but still keen to race even if it isn’t for the win, seems really grounded.

Summing up, Button is in it for the fame/wins, Hamilton is in it for the racing.

[SRT77]

pugwash4x4 said:

Mini1275 said:

SRT77 said:

I just think Hamilton is more racy and more likely to try a less than dead cert overtaking move. Jenson seems like a nice guy, but all too often reverts to his wingy side if things are less than perfect. He sounded like he was almost crying on the team radio in Hungary.

+1
Lewis does what he is meant to do, Race. I like Jenson but i think he is only good if the car is good. He is starting to make excuses for him not winning the championship, he should believe in himself!
GO HAMILTON!

Edited by Mini1275 on Thursday 30th July 11:03

I don't think that's true- he has had some historic races in his time and seems to get the most out of the car- he beats Rubens continuously, and Rubens as number 2 driver used to give schuey a run for his money.

Hamilton races well when the car is working, but having watched him a couple of times this season, i really don't think he's got the best out of the car all the time.

Well Lewis partnered Alonso, reckoned by many , but not all to be the best in the business and often had the measure of him.

I think you need to watch Lewis more than a couple of times.

Seems to be a huge amount of hype about Hamilton but little to prove his brilliance! For example- people compare Lewis to Schue- why?

[llewop]

SeeFive said:

With no axe to grind at all, I'd suggest it is something to do with the fact that LH is one of the few drivers on the grid today that is a true racer, with an exuberant driving style who can wring the best out of a good or poor car.

Button is a smooth, quick race car driver when in a good car - like the majority of the others.

So, by most with no axe to grind, he is not seen as exceptional.

Button is smoother than pretty well all the others - listen to what Martin says about him - and other drivers admit that they can't match him for that side of things. Because of it he is probably the best wet-weather driver in F1 at the moment, which regardless of 'style' has to prove something.

Lewis is undoubtedly quick, but his style does mean that if the car (or his concentration) are less than perfect he can end up with a lairy race (Silverstone) which is fun to watch, but slow!

• I will admit to being a Button fan (since his Formula Ford days) and am not ashamed of that, he can race with the best of them, but modern cars and championships mean that a more mature approach than Hamilton sometimes shows is required.

[SeeFive]

llewop said:

SeeFive said:

With no axe to grind at all, I'd suggest it is something to do with the fact that LH is one of the few drivers on the grid today that is a true racer, with an exuberant driving style who can wring the best out of a good or poor car.

Button is a smooth, quick race car driver when in a good car - like the majority of the others.

So, by most with no axe to grind, he is not seen as exceptional.

Button is smoother than pretty well all the others - listen to what Martin says about him - and other drivers admit that they can't match him for that side of things. Because of it he is probably the best wet-weather driver in F1 at the moment, which regardless of 'style' has to prove something.

Lewis is undoubtedly quick, but his style does mean that if the car (or his concentration) are less than perfect he can end up with a lairy race (Silverstone) which is fun to watch, but slow!

• I will admit to being a Button fan (since his Formula Ford days) and am not ashamed of that, he can race with the best of them, but modern cars and championships mean that a more mature approach than Hamilton sometimes shows is required.

The issue is that you have to be smooth and quick together - like a Prost to gain the respect of other drivers. You can be exciting and erratic like Villeneuve Snr to get the adulation of the masses without the results.

I'd hate to watch 22 smooth drivers running around for 2 hours - it would be like watching the snooker. Similarly, 22 Hamiltons would make it look like BTC banger racing. F1 needs a mix of driving styles to make it work.

By the way, I would almost agree with your description of Hamilton's style, with the exception that it makes him erratic, perhaps a little slower than he could be, but not slow when compared to others in the same machinery.

He's still quicker than Button in any machinery

[Mini1275]

I think Jenson is only good IF he is at the front but if he isnt at the front he cant attack and slice through the field like Hamilton, he isnt as aggresive as Lewis.

Edited by Mini1275 on Thursday 30th July 12:48

[entropy]

Button had a dominant car and arguably little work rate to go with those wins.

Hamilton has the attacking style that pleases the purists.

Its the old Prost v Senna argument: the majority would rave about Senna when Prost sat back and made everything look so easy that his wins were so boring to watch.

llewop said:

Button is smoother than pretty well all the others - listen to what Martin says about him - and other drivers admit that they can't match him for that side of things. Because of it he is probably the best wet-weather driver in F1 at the moment, which regardless of 'style' has to prove something.

Lewis is undoubtedly quick, but his style does mean that if the car (or his concentration) are less than perfect he can end up with a lairy race (Silverstone) which is fun to watch, but slow!

Entirely disagree.

Button, IMHO, is far too dependent on his driving style and unwilling to compromise - Silverstone this year being one instance but a better example were the first 6 or so races in 07 and 08 when Barrichello was pissing all over Button in a car which was a heap of turd.

Contrast that with Hamilton at the start of this year. He came from nowhere and dragged a heap of turd into solid points paying positions in Malaysia and Melbourne as well if he hadn't lied to the stewards.

That's what marks the great from the good. Not just looking invincible in a top car but being able to polish a turd.

[Alfie Noakes]

To the O/P.

It's human nature, you can't slag a bloke off for loosing for 5 years then turn around and say he's great because he's winning. Where's the logic in that!

You have to keep on saying he's bad even when he's good, otherwise you'll look a prat.

[mchammer89]

IanMorewood said:

Button – showed lots of promise, got a massive pay off, fame/money went to his head, delivered almost nothing, lost his job now fighting for survival and doing a pretty good job.
Hamilton – turned up from no were to beat a double world champion in the same car, missed the world championship by one point, won the world championship a year later, struggling this year but still keen to race even if it isn’t for the win, seems really grounded.

Summing up, Button is in it for the fame/wins, Hamilton is in it for the racing.

He didn't beat Alonso, how many times does it need to be said? Plus if people are so adamant on saying "he only lost the championship by one point" I think it's only fair to point out that he later won the championship by one point.

[SRT77]

mchammer89 said:

IanMorewood said:

Button – showed lots of promise, got a massive pay off, fame/money went to his head, delivered almost nothing, lost his job now fighting for survival and doing a pretty good job.
Hamilton – turned up from no were to beat a double world champion in the same car, missed the world championship by one point, won the world championship a year later, struggling this year but still keen to race even if it isn’t for the win, seems really grounded.

Summing up, Button is in it for the fame/wins, Hamilton is in it for the racing.

He didn't beat Alonso, how many times does it need to be said? Plus if people are so adamant on saying "he only lost the championship by one point" I think it's only fair to point out that he later won the championship by one point.

He might have won only by one point, but he did have a serious amount of points docked throughout the season, many of which were on dubious grounds.

[hairyben]

Yet to see him really go wheel to wheel or simply appear hungry for victory, ie the fighting spirit of someone like alonso or hamilton. Evan when the BAR was good he always seemed to haemorrhage places in the race, it was quite exasperating to watch.

I guess brawn have finally given him the car after all this time, the alonso's and hamiltons of this world would never have waited this long though. Don't get me wrong, I'll enjoy it he wins, but only because he's flying our flag.