Nascar chase (inc spoilers)

[eastlmark]

WTG Montoya for making the chase, Brian vickers as well!

[entropy]

JPM has been on stellar form in the summer. Solid top 10 finishes.

Dega looks like the best chance for victory if he can keep his nose clean, plate tracks have been DEI forte.

Nice to see Vickers come back and show his worth. He and Kasey Kahne were my fave drivers when they both raced in Busch series.

[acf8181]

yep, i'm a monty fan, he's driven really sensibly (i never thought he had it in him) most the yr. mega shame he missed out on a couple of possible wins but hopefully he will go well in the chase.

Sadly i will not have sky after next weekend.....anyone kno if the races are streamed online?

[flemke]

Just to take the other side of the debate (or to start one) here, Montoya is the guy whom I would least like to see take the title. If Kyle Busch were in it, then it would be tough for me to decide against whom to root, but at least this year #18 has made it easy for me.
Montoya's hugely talented - no doubt about it. So is Kyle Busch. The problem with them is not related to talent, it's related to attitude:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2eu-V57zpc

Montoya came into NASCAR and from the off he was banging on guys and getting cute. That's not the way it works there, any more than it's the way it works in F1.
Montoya has not come close to earning his stripes yet. You've got a guy like Mark Martin, who's been driving his heart out in this arena for more than 20 years, second in the championship four times, his driving is totally clean and honest - how could anyone not support him? Stewart and Gordon are very classy drivers too. I'll grant that two or three of the guys in the Chase are uninspiring cyphers, but at least they show other people respect.

[grahamdance]

My heart says Stewart but my head says Johnson. Just look at the 48s performance in the chase over the last 6 years, they'll be unstopable. Stewart has lost momentum over the last 3 races - as someone said on NASCAR Sirius radio today, everything that could go right for the 14 went right in the first 2/3rds of the season, and everything that could have gone wrong since then has gone wrong.

Vickers is a future champion but despite having a great points aveag over the last 8 or so races, I don't think he's reached the level required yet. Same with JPM, while points racing is a sound strategy to get into the chase, the pressure of 10 races will be their downfall.

It would be great for Mark Martin to finally get a title to his name, but my money is on the 48.

Regardless, the racing should be fantastic, especially with shrub out of the championship picture...similar to Stewart not making it a couple of years ago, I think the 18 will be a force to be reconed with over the next 10 races!

[eastlmark]

I reckon either Martin or one of the outsiders like Montoya would do the sport a lot of good. Please not another JJ title.

[Tam Lin]

eastlmark said:

Please not another JJ title.

With the COT (and the odd well timed "debris" caution) making the whole run-up to the chase so close in points this year, hopefully it will continue to mess up the crushing consistency of the 48 team. It would be great to see someone else on top for a change, just please, not Montoya...

[entropy]

flemke said:

Just to take the other side of the debate (or to start one) here, Montoya is the guy whom I would least like to see take the title. If Kyle Busch were in it, then it would be tough for me to decide against whom to root, but at least this year #18 has made it easy for me.
Montoya's hugely talented - no doubt about it. So is Kyle Busch. The problem with them is not related to talent, it's related to attitude:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2eu-V57zpc

Montoya came into NASCAR and from the off he was banging on guys and getting cute. That's not the way it works there, any more than it's the way it works in F1.
Montoya has not come close to earning his stripes yet. You've got a guy like Mark Martin, who's been driving his heart out in this arena for more than 20 years, second in the championship four times, his driving is totally clean and honest - how could anyone not support him? Stewart and Gordon are very classy drivers too. I'll grant that two or three of the guys in the Chase are uninspiring cyphers, but at least they show other people respect.

I have to admit, NASCAR were dumb to turn a blind with JPM's blatant punting in his first full season. Any other driver would've been banned let alone probationary period.

But JPM isn't as hot headed these days. DW had it spot on when he called JPM 'old school' = hit me once, I'll hit you twice - after all rubbing is racing.

There's even worse tossers than JPM: Kyle being the top. And please, Tony Stewart is as good as Gordon but is hardly a gentleman.

[flemke]

entropy said:

flemke said:

Just to take the other side of the debate (or to start one) here, Montoya is the guy whom I would least like to see take the title. If Kyle Busch were in it, then it would be tough for me to decide against whom to root, but at least this year #18 has made it easy for me.
Montoya's hugely talented - no doubt about it. So is Kyle Busch. The problem with them is not related to talent, it's related to attitude:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2eu-V57zpc

Montoya came into NASCAR and from the off he was banging on guys and getting cute. That's not the way it works there, any more than it's the way it works in F1.
Montoya has not come close to earning his stripes yet. You've got a guy like Mark Martin, who's been driving his heart out in this arena for more than 20 years, second in the championship four times, his driving is totally clean and honest - how could anyone not support him? Stewart and Gordon are very classy drivers too. I'll grant that two or three of the guys in the Chase are uninspiring cyphers, but at least they show other people respect.

I have to admit, NASCAR were dumb to turn a blind with JPM's blatant punting in his first full season. Any other driver would've been banned let alone probationary period.

But JPM isn't as hot headed these days. DW had it spot on when he called JPM 'old school' = hit me once, I'll hit you twice - after all rubbing is racing.

There's even worse tossers than JPM: Kyle being the top. And please, Tony Stewart is as good as Gordon but is hardly a gentleman.

Certainly a few years ago Stewart was an infantile hothead. It is my impression that he began to grow up a couple of years ago, and this year I've not seen him do anything that was out of order, although I may well have missed a few things. Perhaps becoming an owner has had a salutary effect on him.
Also, anyone who's won a championship in one of these has got my respect:

[entropy]

flemke said:

There's even worse tossers than JPM: Kyle being the top. And please, Tony Stewart is as good as Gordon but is hardly a gentleman.

Certainly a few years ago Stewart was an infantile hothead. It is my impression that he began to grow up a couple of years ago, and this year I've not seen him do anything that was out of order, although I may well have missed a few things. Perhaps becoming an owner has had a salutary effect on him.

True, but he did punt his own team mate out of Daytona July race, trying to bump draft Hamlin mid corner and took them a while to patch things up.

The same Tony Stewart who a few years ago headed a drivers meeting before a Daytona 500 calling for no bump drafting mid-corner. And then what did he do? Fustrated racing midfield he decides to bump draft mid corner and create the big one.

JPM has grown up a bit this year as well. At Sonoma this year he could've punted his way back to the front if he'd wanted to but didn't and settled for points. At Pocono race he could've punted some cars off but didn't and settled for points.

[flemke]

entropy said:

True, but he did punt his own team mate out of Daytona July race, trying to bump draft Hamlin mid corner and took them a while to patch things up.

The same Tony Stewart who a few years ago headed a drivers meeting before a Daytona 500 calling for no bump drafting mid-corner. And then what did he do? Fustrated racing midfield he decides to bump draft mid corner and create the big one.

JPM has grown up a bit this year as well. At Sonoma this year he could've punted his way back to the front if he'd wanted to but didn't and settled for points. At Pocono race he could've punted some cars off but didn't and settled for points.

I'm not sure that failing to punt another driver out of the way on some occasions would in itself qualify one for honours. Yes, the idea is that, eventually, you're supposd to grow up, and most people manage to do that eventually.
Perhaps irrationally, it remains difficult for me to forget some past Montoya moments, such as the incident with the cameraman on the video, the supposed bringing of a massive entourage of people to the paddock on race days despite his having been asked to tone it down, and of course the time when he seemed unable to distinguish between a motorbike and a tennis racket.

[footsoldier]

I knew JPM well in days gone by. One of the nicest in the paddock when not racing, and totally down to earth. Different matter when his race face comes on though! No problem with that, but it just doesn't switch on and off and that's when he has been caught out. Also, if it's like days gone by, his "entourage" is his family - again all good people.

I remember at Pau in F3000 when people talked about being able to take the kink on the main straight flat out if set up correctly and on right line. Some drivers were still not flat at end of weekend, JPM took it flat, (it's blind) on his outlap, first time out...won the race by about a lap two days later.

[entropy]

flemke said:

I'm not sure that failing to punt another driver out of the way on some occasions would in itself qualify one for honours. Yes, the idea is that, eventually, you're supposd to grow up, and most people manage to do that eventually.
Perhaps irrationally, it remains difficult for me to forget some past Montoya moments, such as the incident with the cameraman on the video, the supposed bringing of a massive entourage of people to the paddock on race days despite his having been asked to tone it down, and of course the time when he seemed unable to distinguish between a motorbike and a tennis racket.

JPM is neither the first nor last to have an ego trip and what has JPM done to upset the applecart outside a stock car or garage/motorhome area?

As bad as this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CBm_VugNYk

Personally I have no further problems distinguishing a drivers talents behind a wheel and their other self outside a race car. Kyle Busch is an utter prick but I'm happy to admit he has talent and charm to boot when he decides to use it.

[entropy]

Apologies for misquoting Flemke, just noticed I mis-edited your post.

[grahamdance]

Montoya on the pole in New Hampshire, Smoke and Kurt Busch setting identical times for 2nd. The whole field covered by less than 1.4 seconds!

http://www.nascar.com/races/cup/2009/27/data/lineu...

Edited by grahamdance on Saturday 19th September 00:37

[flemke]

grahamdance said:

Montoya on the pole in New Hampshire, Smoke and Kurt Busch setting identical times for 2nd. The whole field covered by less than 1.4 seconds!

http://www.nascar.com/races/cup/2009/27/data/lineu...

Interesting that fastest Hendrick car only 10th.

[DangerousMike]

is there any way to watch NASCAR races over the internet?

[grahamdance]

There are usually a couple of streams on justin.tv, just put NASCAR in the search box.

Have a look an hour or so before the race is due to start, people normally stream the pre-show on Speed too, then change to ABC for the race.

[entropy]

flemke said:

Interesting that fastest Hendrick car only 10th.

Qualifying is near meaningless in NASCAR and you can now pass in New Hampshire these days.

[flemke]

entropy said:

flemke said:

Interesting that fastest Hendrick car only 10th.

Qualifying is near meaningless in NASCAR and you can now pass in New Hampshire these days.

Well...
it's near-meaningless in the sense that a fast car starting near or at the back will always have the chance to win the race (in contrast to the F1 no-overtaking-after-the-first-lap rule), even at M'ville. It would also be true that some guys are better at qualifying than they are over the course of a race, whilst others are the opposite.

Nonetheless, there is a correlation between qualifying well and doing well in the race. There is only one guy (Truex) who is outside the top 16 in points who has taken pole this year. In the same vein, the two top winners, Martin and Bratz, have taken 7 poles and 8 wins, and that's not a coincidence.