Mclaren to split with Merc?
Discussion
The newest rumour to flare up is that mclaren are possibly partnering with BMW,i really hope not,as the Merc engine is the best on the grid and the BMW engine has'nt proved that reliable.
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/...
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/...
Marcia said:
The newest rumour to flare up is that mclaren are possibly partnering with BMW,i really hope not,as the Merc engine is the best on the grid and the BMW engine has'nt proved that reliable.
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/...
Don't really like the way Merc are heading, but from McLarens perspective, that's quite a sensible move I would suggest, if they loose Merc, I can't imagine them wanting to be just another Cosworth customer can you?http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/...
Scuffers said:
Marcia said:
The newest rumour to flare up is that mclaren are possibly partnering with BMW,i really hope not,as the Merc engine is the best on the grid and the BMW engine has'nt proved that reliable.
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/...
Don't really like the way Merc are heading, but from McLarens perspective, that's quite a sensible move I would suggest, if they lose Merc, I can't imagine them wanting to be just another Cosworth customer can you?http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/...
Edited by RYH64E on Saturday 3rd October 10:51
The new rules favour stability so development costs should be lower than they once were. If they created a competitive engine they could sell to other teams and having an engine division in-house could also tie in with their new supercar company.
Start by poaching a few key Ilmor (sorry Mercedes Benz High Performance Engines Ltd...!) staff and they'd soon develop the best F1 engine.
Given the way Mclaren operate, I don't see them happy to remain a Mercedes customer if Brawn are the (favoured) factory team
Start by poaching a few key Ilmor (sorry Mercedes Benz High Performance Engines Ltd...!) staff and they'd soon develop the best F1 engine.
Given the way Mclaren operate, I don't see them happy to remain a Mercedes customer if Brawn are the (favoured) factory team
Hmm, interesting!
I assume the BMW engine division is based in Germany? It would certainly give them long term stability if everything is produced in-house, as Ferrari do.
I think it's a shame that after 12 odd years, Mercedes are so keen to switch to Brawn, who have only had success this season, in comparison to McLaren who have, shall we say, a proven track record over a longer period of time. But there we have it.
I assume the BMW engine division is based in Germany? It would certainly give them long term stability if everything is produced in-house, as Ferrari do.
I think it's a shame that after 12 odd years, Mercedes are so keen to switch to Brawn, who have only had success this season, in comparison to McLaren who have, shall we say, a proven track record over a longer period of time. But there we have it.
I'm not sure I believe it. In fact, I'm sure I don't at this stage. However, there are advantages to a 'new' engine. Cosworth will get favoured treatment, of that there can be no doubt. That would, I would assume, go for BMW's totally 'new' engine as well.
McLaren suffered with the Merc engine for some years and the loyalty/contract cost them. They've since had a few years of class of the field power so I would suggest that honours are even.
Brawn needs the money. Merc would be buying in with a buyer's market.
McLaren is, to all intents and purposes, a new team with RD moving on. What better way of showing this than moving away from the company that RD favoured?
Merc will lean towards the new team, designing their engine and ancilliary setup to suit the Brawn. Not the way Whitmarsh would want to start his first full season, making do.
If this is true then I would suggest that the plan was already finalised before BMW pulled the plug. And perhaps before Merc decided to go with Brawn. And it would show a bit of daring on Whitmarsh's side as well.
It would be very interesting.
McLaren suffered with the Merc engine for some years and the loyalty/contract cost them. They've since had a few years of class of the field power so I would suggest that honours are even.
Brawn needs the money. Merc would be buying in with a buyer's market.
McLaren is, to all intents and purposes, a new team with RD moving on. What better way of showing this than moving away from the company that RD favoured?
Merc will lean towards the new team, designing their engine and ancilliary setup to suit the Brawn. Not the way Whitmarsh would want to start his first full season, making do.
If this is true then I would suggest that the plan was already finalised before BMW pulled the plug. And perhaps before Merc decided to go with Brawn. And it would show a bit of daring on Whitmarsh's side as well.
It would be very interesting.
Marcia said:
The newest rumour to flare up is that mclaren are possibly partnering with BMW,i really hope not,as the Merc engine is the best on the grid and the BMW engine has'nt proved that reliable.
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/...
I have been told that a split is happening but not the in the time frame mentioned & that talks are ongoing with another manufacturer (not BMW) to develop/supply engines. http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/...
I fail to see any benefit to McLaren of manufacturing their own engines.
There is unlikely to be a performance benefit because engine development is very restricted (if allowed at all).
It would almost certainly increase operating costs, supplying engines to other teams is unlikely to be profitable.
McLaren already have a very well established name in F1 and don't really need any additional exposure, I don't see any additional benefit to being McLaren McLaren rather than McLaren Mercedes.
Why take on the extra technical burden when it isn't necessary?
There is unlikely to be a performance benefit because engine development is very restricted (if allowed at all).
It would almost certainly increase operating costs, supplying engines to other teams is unlikely to be profitable.
McLaren already have a very well established name in F1 and don't really need any additional exposure, I don't see any additional benefit to being McLaren McLaren rather than McLaren Mercedes.
Why take on the extra technical burden when it isn't necessary?
RYH64E said:
I fail to see any benefit to McLaren of manufacturing their own engines.
There is unlikely to be a performance benefit because engine development is very restricted (if allowed at all).
It would almost certainly increase operating costs, supplying engines to other teams is unlikely to be profitable.
McLaren already have a very well established name in F1 and don't really need any additional exposure, I don't see any additional benefit to being McLaren McLaren rather than McLaren Mercedes.
Why take on the extra technical burden when it isn't necessary?
The technical benefit doesn't come from the engine output but the fact the it is designed around the team's requirement. There is unlikely to be a performance benefit because engine development is very restricted (if allowed at all).
It would almost certainly increase operating costs, supplying engines to other teams is unlikely to be profitable.
McLaren already have a very well established name in F1 and don't really need any additional exposure, I don't see any additional benefit to being McLaren McLaren rather than McLaren Mercedes.
Why take on the extra technical burden when it isn't necessary?
I was told that vibration ranges are critical - I don't know what this really means for the designers - but if you buy in an engine then you have to cope with what you are given. This was during a coversation with someone in the know at the time of Williams' active suspension failures when engine revs had to be increased. The Honda engine had a critical vibration period (I might have only half remembered the nomenclature) that coincided with that of a reservoir. The problem was remedied by changes to both the car and the engine. If it had been off the shelf then I would have been all Williams.
Further, the bolt-on bits are a critical part of engine packaging and aerodynamics. You might want the engine to run a bit cooler to limit the size of the air intake or, perhaps, you found a way of channelling more air into it via the front wing so can afford to run a bit hotter. Whatever, the engine manufacturer can help out.
Much better than the 'one size fits all' scenario.
With the artificial limitations brought in by Mosley, the extra power benefits that a specific engines might provides has been severely restricted.
If McLaren and Mercedes split who is going to buy the 40% of McLaren that M-B own? Ron may well buy it back Mansour Ojjeh may also buy back some stock....but would BMW invest....I think NOT knowing how their main board think and the involvement of the Quandt family.
A somewhat unlikely story as M-B get a win / win result from whatever happens regarding F1 so long as Brawn and McLaren win races and get media coverage.
Brawn currently have no international following, no major sponsors and no marketing department. McLaen have a huge global presence, with adverts across the world and a huge protfolio of 'partners'. Mercedes get coverage on every advert and therefore would be mad to lose this.
A somewhat unlikely story as M-B get a win / win result from whatever happens regarding F1 so long as Brawn and McLaren win races and get media coverage.
Brawn currently have no international following, no major sponsors and no marketing department. McLaen have a huge global presence, with adverts across the world and a huge protfolio of 'partners'. Mercedes get coverage on every advert and therefore would be mad to lose this.
Mercedes could buy Brawn in their entirety for a lot less than they could buy McLaren, assuming those who currently own the shares would even sell.
That would give them marketing benefit of having their own team with money that would have been used paying the extra for McLaren being either saved or used towards development of the team.
McLaren are a race team rather than a manufacturer and would revert to finding an alternative supplier- something they've done many times over.
I don't see it as the big deal some people make out, assuming it were to happen.
Notwithstanding Brawn could become the 'Silver Arrows' and McLaren could start racing in Orange. Now that would be good.
That would give them marketing benefit of having their own team with money that would have been used paying the extra for McLaren being either saved or used towards development of the team.
McLaren are a race team rather than a manufacturer and would revert to finding an alternative supplier- something they've done many times over.
I don't see it as the big deal some people make out, assuming it were to happen.
Notwithstanding Brawn could become the 'Silver Arrows' and McLaren could start racing in Orange. Now that would be good.
Interesting that Ron Dennis is named in the article. He is in charge of McLaren Automotive who have just announced a road car with an engine which the reports indicate is bespoke and built in the UK. The obvious aim of McLaren Automotive is to compete with Ferrari (amongst a couple of others). Ferrari make their own engines for both road cars and F1. What better way to promote the road car but with a similar tie up - McLaren making their own engines for both road cars and F1.
I can see some logic. Not sure how Kimi would feel about it - he would undoubtedly have won a championship or two with McLaren had it not been for Mercedes engine problems. He might be quite happy to go back knowing that they currently have the best engine, but what would he think about being the guinea pig for an in-house engine based on the BMW?
I can see some logic. Not sure how Kimi would feel about it - he would undoubtedly have won a championship or two with McLaren had it not been for Mercedes engine problems. He might be quite happy to go back knowing that they currently have the best engine, but what would he think about being the guinea pig for an in-house engine based on the BMW?
andyps said:
Interesting that Ron Dennis is named in the article. He is in charge of McLaren Automotive who have just announced a road car with an engine which the reports indicate is bespoke and built in the UK. The obvious aim of McLaren Automotive is to compete with Ferrari (amongst a couple of others). Ferrari make their own engines for both road cars and F1. What better way to promote the road car but with a similar tie up - McLaren making their own engines for both road cars and F1.
I can see some logic. Not sure how Kimi would feel about it - he would undoubtedly have won a championship or two with McLaren had it not been for Mercedes engine problems. He might be quite happy to go back knowing that they currently have the best engine, but what would he think about being the guinea pig for an in-house engine based on the BMW?
Not sure where it originally came from but: Team principal Martin Whitmarsh has however denied the rumours. "We have no plans to buy BMW's engines,” he said. (from Ferrarichat.com)I can see some logic. Not sure how Kimi would feel about it - he would undoubtedly have won a championship or two with McLaren had it not been for Mercedes engine problems. He might be quite happy to go back knowing that they currently have the best engine, but what would he think about being the guinea pig for an in-house engine based on the BMW?
4rephill said:
Not sure where it originally came from but: Team principal Martin Whitmarsh has however denied the rumours. "We have no plans to buy BMW's engines,” he said. (from Ferrarichat.com)
The F1 Live article in the OP states this - but it could be that Whitmarsh won't have the final say. I would think he would be involved, however, but may not be able to say much at present.andyps said:
4rephill said:
Not sure where it originally came from but: Team principal Martin Whitmarsh has however denied the rumours. "We have no plans to buy BMW's engines,” he said. (from Ferrarichat.com)
The F1 Live article in the OP states this - but it could be that Whitmarsh won't have the final say. I would think he would be involved, however, but may not be able to say much at present.How about We start an internet rumour that if Mercedes leaves McLaren, then McLaren will use Ferrari Engines next Year to spite Mercedes?
andyps said:
4rephill said:
Not sure where it originally came from but: Team principal Martin Whitmarsh has however denied the rumours. "We have no plans to buy BMW's engines,” he said. (from Ferrarichat.com)
The F1 Live article in the OP states this - but it could be that Whitmarsh won't have the final say. I would think he would be involved, however, but may not be able to say much at present.Total loss said:
andyps said:
4rephill said:
Not sure where it originally came from but: Team principal Martin Whitmarsh has however denied the rumours. "We have no plans to buy BMW's engines,” he said. (from Ferrarichat.com)
The F1 Live article in the OP states this - but it could be that Whitmarsh won't have the final say. I would think he would be involved, however, but may not be able to say much at present.Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff