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ah no that was some lil old lady who took the wrong turn on her way to bingo from her blue rinse!! The average lap speed on one lap was BELOW 30MPH!!! The driver was an idiot though all the cars that chose to pit under the safety car were able to pit 2 or 3 times for fuel and not lose a lap, so sure there is some love there! 
d_drinks said:
ah no that was some lil old lady who took the wrong turn on her way to bingo from her blue rinse!! The average lap speed on one lap was BELOW 30MPH!!! The driver was an idiot though all the cars that chose to pit under the safety car were able to pit 2 or 3 times for fuel and not lose a lap, so sure there is some love there!
I was in the pit garage next to Calum's team and their faces were (understandably) like thunder....one lap took 7 minutes 30 seconds. What was he doing? Then he waved the leader through. Total Mr Beanism..
Edited by phatgixer on Sunday 4th October 19:01
phatgixer said:
d_drinks said:
ah no that was some lil old lady who took the wrong turn on her way to bingo from her blue rinse!! The average lap speed on one lap was BELOW 30MPH!!! The driver was an idiot though all the cars that chose to pit under the safety car were able to pit 2 or 3 times for fuel and not lose a lap, so sure there is some love there!
I was in the pit garage next to Calum's team and their faces were (understandably) like thunder....one lap took 7 minutes 30 seconds. What was he doing? Then he waved the leader through. Total Mr Beanism.
).You are right that teams were re-fuelling during the safety car and basically getting free re-fuels all be it 25 litres a time, but who cares, you only joined the back of the grid again but were still on the same lap.
Ah.... just like the good old days.
Henry
It isn't the Safety Car drivers decision how fast to go. Race Control tell him via the radio what speed they want the crocodile to lap at. I don't know who was driving it yesterday, but I know the regular SC driver was in the race yesterday and I've not driven it since last years 24 hour race (when I was told to slow down)
It was clear that if a safety car period was long enough then it would be easy (for the faster cars) to pit, catch the train and pit again regardless of the speed of the safety car, so no one really gained from that side of things (apart from the slower cars, perhaps), but the SC did go stupidly slowly.
What was of greater concern to us was the speed of the pace lap. After last year's issues we asked for two laps, but were told they weren't needed and were assured that the pace lap would happen at a reasonable speed so that tyres and brakes could be warmed. But Phil was on the radio complaining that if they went any slower they'd stop (which we could also see on the video feed), so it was no different at all and once again we all started with stone cold tyres. Just daft.
What was of greater concern to us was the speed of the pace lap. After last year's issues we asked for two laps, but were told they weren't needed and were assured that the pace lap would happen at a reasonable speed so that tyres and brakes could be warmed. But Phil was on the radio complaining that if they went any slower they'd stop (which we could also see on the video feed), so it was no different at all and once again we all started with stone cold tyres. Just daft.
Dear all,
Just a snippet of information for all you experts in the deployment of the safety car.
The safety car was deployed because there was oil down at brooklands and cars were going off into the gravel.At first the safety car was driving at a reasonable pace and was told to slow down to 30mph between piory and brooklands because there was about 10 marshals trying to extract cars that were in the gravel and also clear the oil that was covering the track.But the problem was that the crocodile of cars was so spread out that the marshals could not work safely.You have to remember its night time and if you was a marshal working on the circuit and saw headlights coming at you at speed you would not feel safe.So the safety car was told by race control to drive at 20mph for the whole lap so that the crocodile of cars had no choice but to bunch up and give the marshals time to clear the debris and oil in safety.This took 2 laps after which the safety car was told to pick the pace up and when get to the start finish sraight wave by the first 14 cars in the crocodile,well pinky and perky in the safety car new this was not going to be easy.After which the safety car sped up for the rest of the lap and in fact nearly caught the end of the cars that it just let past and when got to abbey told by race control to turn the safety car lights off and enter pit lane.At no stage do pinky and perky in the safety car do anything without race control telling them.I just thought i would share that with all the experts that know jack s@@t about the people in the safety car.If you have a gripe take it up with race control.I look forward to meeting you at the next event please come and say hello and i will explain it further
Pinky
Just a snippet of information for all you experts in the deployment of the safety car.
The safety car was deployed because there was oil down at brooklands and cars were going off into the gravel.At first the safety car was driving at a reasonable pace and was told to slow down to 30mph between piory and brooklands because there was about 10 marshals trying to extract cars that were in the gravel and also clear the oil that was covering the track.But the problem was that the crocodile of cars was so spread out that the marshals could not work safely.You have to remember its night time and if you was a marshal working on the circuit and saw headlights coming at you at speed you would not feel safe.So the safety car was told by race control to drive at 20mph for the whole lap so that the crocodile of cars had no choice but to bunch up and give the marshals time to clear the debris and oil in safety.This took 2 laps after which the safety car was told to pick the pace up and when get to the start finish sraight wave by the first 14 cars in the crocodile,well pinky and perky in the safety car new this was not going to be easy.After which the safety car sped up for the rest of the lap and in fact nearly caught the end of the cars that it just let past and when got to abbey told by race control to turn the safety car lights off and enter pit lane.At no stage do pinky and perky in the safety car do anything without race control telling them.I just thought i would share that with all the experts that know jack s@@t about the people in the safety car.If you have a gripe take it up with race control.I look forward to meeting you at the next event please come and say hello and i will explain it further
Pinky
terry678 said:
Dear all,
Just a snippet of information for all you experts in the deployment of the safety car.
The safety car was deployed because there was oil down at brooklands and cars were going off into the gravel.At first the safety car was driving at a reasonable pace and was told to slow down to 30mph between piory and brooklands because there was about 10 marshals trying to extract cars that were in the gravel and also clear the oil that was covering the track.But the problem was that the crocodile of cars was so spread out that the marshals could not work safely.You have to remember its night time and if you was a marshal working on the circuit and saw headlights coming at you at speed you would not feel safe.So the safety car was told by race control to drive at 20mph for the whole lap so that the crocodile of cars had no choice but to bunch up and give the marshals time to clear the debris and oil in safety.This took 2 laps after which the safety car was told to pick the pace up and when get to the start finish sraight wave by the first 14 cars in the crocodile,well pinky and perky in the safety car new this was not going to be easy.After which the safety car sped up for the rest of the lap and in fact nearly caught the end of the cars that it just let past and when got to abbey told by race control to turn the safety car lights off and enter pit lane.At no stage do pinky and perky in the safety car do anything without race control telling them.I just thought i would share that with all the experts that know jack s@@t about the people in the safety car.If you have a gripe take it up with race control.I look forward to meeting you at the next event please come and say hello and i will explain it further
Pinky
Race control told you to let the leader past, did it? Then come in?Just a snippet of information for all you experts in the deployment of the safety car.
The safety car was deployed because there was oil down at brooklands and cars were going off into the gravel.At first the safety car was driving at a reasonable pace and was told to slow down to 30mph between piory and brooklands because there was about 10 marshals trying to extract cars that were in the gravel and also clear the oil that was covering the track.But the problem was that the crocodile of cars was so spread out that the marshals could not work safely.You have to remember its night time and if you was a marshal working on the circuit and saw headlights coming at you at speed you would not feel safe.So the safety car was told by race control to drive at 20mph for the whole lap so that the crocodile of cars had no choice but to bunch up and give the marshals time to clear the debris and oil in safety.This took 2 laps after which the safety car was told to pick the pace up and when get to the start finish sraight wave by the first 14 cars in the crocodile,well pinky and perky in the safety car new this was not going to be easy.After which the safety car sped up for the rest of the lap and in fact nearly caught the end of the cars that it just let past and when got to abbey told by race control to turn the safety car lights off and enter pit lane.At no stage do pinky and perky in the safety car do anything without race control telling them.I just thought i would share that with all the experts that know jack s@@t about the people in the safety car.If you have a gripe take it up with race control.I look forward to meeting you at the next event please come and say hello and i will explain it further
Pinky
You, as the responsible adult had no interaction with race control to tell their plan sucked?
Was a shambles any way you dissect it...
Also, the 6 minute and 7 minute laps were performed when the crocodile was formed! The car was out for 40 minutes or longer.
Edited by phatgixer on Sunday 4th October 23:53
Releasing people out of the pit lane during a safety car defeats the whole object of having a safety car as they will be driving round at pace to catch the line of cars up. Indeed as drivers we are encouraged to keep up our speed, whilst remaining vigilant, and catch the line of cars up as soon as possible so as to maximise the free space on track and allow people to get on and do their job trackside.
Who ever writes the rules governing Britcar`s safety car deployment needs to keep the pit lane closed at all times until just after the line of cars has passed the pit exit. Release cars at that point then once all waiting cars have gone close the pitlane again.
That would also prevent "free" re fueling under the safety car as cars would lose a minimum of 1 lap per 25 litres of fuel.
It doesn`t seem difficult to me, a simple solution.
As a driver slow driving on track can be frustrating both from the point of view of tyres going cold (I remember a bad crash at Woodcote one year on a re-start after the safety car) and also over heating. Our cars are cooled by the air flowing through the rads as we drive along. If we stop the car over heats.
Henry
Henry
Who ever writes the rules governing Britcar`s safety car deployment needs to keep the pit lane closed at all times until just after the line of cars has passed the pit exit. Release cars at that point then once all waiting cars have gone close the pitlane again.
That would also prevent "free" re fueling under the safety car as cars would lose a minimum of 1 lap per 25 litres of fuel.
It doesn`t seem difficult to me, a simple solution.
As a driver slow driving on track can be frustrating both from the point of view of tyres going cold (I remember a bad crash at Woodcote one year on a re-start after the safety car) and also over heating. Our cars are cooled by the air flowing through the rads as we drive along. If we stop the car over heats.
Henry
Henry
To be fair, Henry, in many race series the pit exit remains green unless the train is passing under SC conditions - LMS, FIA GT, BTCS, Belcar etc.
Letting the leader by on a wave by is daft, but then the leader himself should know that he's in the lead and should take some responsibility for the situation - unless the flurry of pit activity has blurred the situation and the on screen leader has entered the pits and thus been overtaken, in which case the SC driver could well be looking for the wrong car. This has certainly happened in the past in British GT races and the onus is therefore on Race Control to keep abreast of the situation by monitoring screens and track simultaneously and advise the SC driver accordingly.
Letting the leader by on a wave by is daft, but then the leader himself should know that he's in the lead and should take some responsibility for the situation - unless the flurry of pit activity has blurred the situation and the on screen leader has entered the pits and thus been overtaken, in which case the SC driver could well be looking for the wrong car. This has certainly happened in the past in British GT races and the onus is therefore on Race Control to keep abreast of the situation by monitoring screens and track simultaneously and advise the SC driver accordingly.
There is always the other side of the coin - we were quietly pleased with the speed and length of the SC period as it meant one less pitstop for us, and helped the life of the wets. Travelling at 20mph along the start/finish straight etc after 20mins did seem excessive, but it's down to each team to manage what's thrown up at you in the race.
Henry, as mentioned above the SC rules run in Britcar are common in all the major GT/sportscar series - it's the 'junior' series which run to their own regs
There seemed to be alot of pit infringements handed out, and not sure what they are for, but the Mosler team next to us got away with opening the vent on their fuel churns each time & all they got was a warning from the Official watching. I just hope that was consistant down the pit lane.
However, all in all, a great race & exciting to watch and be part of. Well done to Topcats for a well deserved win, and well done also to the three Ginetta's in the race who proved the G50 is the Class 3 car to have over the (very) long distances - beating the hordes of 996's and N24's and finishing 1st, 3rd and 4th in the most competitive class in the race.
Fianlly, well done & thanks from us to James, Claire, David and the team for the hard work leading up to the race weekend, and I'm sure that we all gave you a race worthy of your efforts.
Andy
Jemco Racing
Henry, as mentioned above the SC rules run in Britcar are common in all the major GT/sportscar series - it's the 'junior' series which run to their own regs
There seemed to be alot of pit infringements handed out, and not sure what they are for, but the Mosler team next to us got away with opening the vent on their fuel churns each time & all they got was a warning from the Official watching. I just hope that was consistant down the pit lane.
However, all in all, a great race & exciting to watch and be part of. Well done to Topcats for a well deserved win, and well done also to the three Ginetta's in the race who proved the G50 is the Class 3 car to have over the (very) long distances - beating the hordes of 996's and N24's and finishing 1st, 3rd and 4th in the most competitive class in the race.
Fianlly, well done & thanks from us to James, Claire, David and the team for the hard work leading up to the race weekend, and I'm sure that we all gave you a race worthy of your efforts.
Andy
Jemco Racing
I wouldn't worry too much what other series do Andy, I'd be tempted to write the rules myself so they best suited my own series, especially if run on a relative shoestring and driven in by relative novices compared to the series you mention. At night as well. Clearly race control identified a problem with the regs and had to do something unusual to get round the problem to protect their marshals.
Henry
Henry
Angus, think about it - two people in the safety car, one listening intently to instructions from Race Control, the other driving in a pressurised situation, no timing screen in front of them, just a line of car headlights behind them - how would they know who the leader was?
With just one serious night race a year in this country, there is precious little opportunity for practice in these situations, and whilst passion and opinion run high, never forget on this forum that the person you are hurling insults at could well be (and in fact was) one of our number.
With just one serious night race a year in this country, there is precious little opportunity for practice in these situations, and whilst passion and opinion run high, never forget on this forum that the person you are hurling insults at could well be (and in fact was) one of our number.
we get that a large amount of oil had been dropped on the circuit - gearbox i understand from our driver out on track at the time. And for sure the marshals who we depend on to go racing are a prime area of concern being on track, but that being said, when you have the entire field behind you then surely 20 MPH is not needed? We had half a lap at best when the SC was coming to and in no way is that enough to get any heat into the tyres or generally pick up the pace any to go racing again.
The pitlane being open EXCEPT when the SC was close by was and is per the rules of our series so that isn't a problem - it was stated at the managers meeting on Fri that i went too and the drivers briefing on Sat morning at 10:30. They did also say the would try to pick up the leader and given the wave arounds it looks like once they had the race ready to re start they did do that, so again no problems for me. It was the fact that 20MPH for the entire circuit when the oilo was at a very small section was a farce and Race Ctrl did a poor job, the SC driver i'd hope would have given feedback to Race Ctrl saying the pace was too slow.
Well done to the guys running the G50's shame a gravel trap visit and then being whacked by another car - resulting in some nicely bent suspension and excessive tyre wear - meant we lost 7 laps and didn't really feature as threat.
The pitlane being open EXCEPT when the SC was close by was and is per the rules of our series so that isn't a problem - it was stated at the managers meeting on Fri that i went too and the drivers briefing on Sat morning at 10:30. They did also say the would try to pick up the leader and given the wave arounds it looks like once they had the race ready to re start they did do that, so again no problems for me. It was the fact that 20MPH for the entire circuit when the oilo was at a very small section was a farce and Race Ctrl did a poor job, the SC driver i'd hope would have given feedback to Race Ctrl saying the pace was too slow.
Well done to the guys running the G50's shame a gravel trap visit and then being whacked by another car - resulting in some nicely bent suspension and excessive tyre wear - meant we lost 7 laps and didn't really feature as threat.
By keeping the safety car at a slow pace for the entire lap the marshalls had longer periods where they were able to work in safety to clear the circuit.
Henry, the MSA write the safety car rules, they issued a set of rules to all championships at the start of the year which had to be implemented in their '09 regs. Nothing we could do abpout changing them.
Further more, even if there was opportunity to repeat fuel stops under the safety car and recatch the train, the 'free stop', surely it was the same for every one out there so whats the complaint? Everyone was under the same conditions and the same rules were they not so had the opportunity to take the same advantage?
WRT heating of the tyres, again, isn't that the same for everyone, isn't part of the job of the driver to manage the car to it's optimal performance window? Having been in safety car conditions in a race myself, whilst it was snowing, it was down to the drivers to manage their cars and their tyres once the race went live until you could push to full race pace again. Much like the start of any race your tyres and brakes won't be optimal once the lights gogreen so its up to the driver to get the bits up to temp/press as quickly as possible and if he does it well he can take advantage over those that haven't got there yet.
It's all part of the game.
Britcar David
Henry, the MSA write the safety car rules, they issued a set of rules to all championships at the start of the year which had to be implemented in their '09 regs. Nothing we could do abpout changing them.
Further more, even if there was opportunity to repeat fuel stops under the safety car and recatch the train, the 'free stop', surely it was the same for every one out there so whats the complaint? Everyone was under the same conditions and the same rules were they not so had the opportunity to take the same advantage?
WRT heating of the tyres, again, isn't that the same for everyone, isn't part of the job of the driver to manage the car to it's optimal performance window? Having been in safety car conditions in a race myself, whilst it was snowing, it was down to the drivers to manage their cars and their tyres once the race went live until you could push to full race pace again. Much like the start of any race your tyres and brakes won't be optimal once the lights gogreen so its up to the driver to get the bits up to temp/press as quickly as possible and if he does it well he can take advantage over those that haven't got there yet.
It's all part of the game.
Britcar David
To be fair, Just about everytime you hear of a Safety car being deployed anywhere in Europe there seem to be issues with it...
I think the overriding fact though if you've got workers on the track especially at night then safety is most important factor... I think everyone would prefer an overheated engine to hitting a marshal.
At least there was no fog eh...
I think the overriding fact though if you've got workers on the track especially at night then safety is most important factor... I think everyone would prefer an overheated engine to hitting a marshal.
At least there was no fog eh...
Steve Britcar said:
Angus, think about it - two people in the safety car, one listening intently to instructions from Race Control, the other driving in a pressurised situation, no timing screen in front of them, just a line of car headlights behind them - how would they know who the leader was?
To be fair though, Steve, that's no excuse. If it was an SC driver error then they should wait a few extra seconds to identify the car - and let's face it the leader was only going to be a Mosler or the RSR, which are easily identifiable cars.They should be kept informed by race control, as I said above, plus the leader should take a level of responsibility.
Steve Britcar said:
With just one serious night race a year in this country, there is precious little opportunity for practice in these situations, and whilst passion and opinion run high, never forget on this forum that the person you are hurling insults at could well be (and in fact was) one of our number.
The 24 has been running for a few years now, so experience isn't an issue. Many other countries operate similar numbers of night races to the UK, so that's really not an excuse.Anyway, we don't know the exact reason for the problem when the leader was waved by, so we should all wait for the SC driver to return.
Henry-F said:
I wouldn't worry too much what other series do Andy, I'd be tempted to write the rules myself so they best suited my own series...
Oh come on, Henry. If countless other long-distance championships use a common regulation with regard to a green pit exit, then chances are it's probably correct and normal. I'd argue that most of Britcar's regulatory issues are precisely because it decides to go its own way sometimes and introduces regs that are entirely alien to anyone who regularly races internationally - it's one of the things that annoys me the most.The shoestring argument doesn't hold. Think of the 'Ring 24, BTCS 12-hour at Spa, Dubai 24 etc - in most of the biggish long distance races you have the big guys at the front with decent staff levels and little tiny teams at the back, with only a couple of guys helping out. The regs are the same for everyone.
Edited by Ahonen on Monday 5th October 11:08
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