Who is to blame for current state of F1
Discussion
New here and not sure how to setup a poll thread. any help?
But the question is, what or who is to blame for the current state of Formula One
Bernie
FIA
Drivers
Teams
Track Designers
Fans (through unrealistic expectations)
I see that Bernie is trying to distance himself from any blame by saying it is the teams fault and they don't understand that Formula One is entertainment. I think that is crap and would put the blame in his court (how much does he really care about F1 anymore if he jets out before the first race is finished), along with FIA especially Mosley.
But the question is, what or who is to blame for the current state of Formula One
Bernie
FIA
Drivers
Teams
Track Designers
Fans (through unrealistic expectations)
I see that Bernie is trying to distance himself from any blame by saying it is the teams fault and they don't understand that Formula One is entertainment. I think that is crap and would put the blame in his court (how much does he really care about F1 anymore if he jets out before the first race is finished), along with FIA especially Mosley.
If I were to point the finger at a single entity, it would have to be the teams - FOTA.
I think Bernie must be reading some of my comments on a site somewhere (
) because even he has finally admitted that the competitors having a say in the rules of the sport is a fundamental problem with F1. As far as I know, this is a first for the ex-FOTA chairman!
The crux of the problem is; in a system where all must agree for a rule change to happen, the team(s) at the top who's goal is to win and keep winning, are unlikely to ever agree to one that it's direct purpose is to upset the status quo. There is a place for a dictatorship, and that is in sport..
It's not just the teams, it's more complex than that, but FOTA have been the main problem with changes for the good of the sport since... 1980, certainly 1982 (including FOTA v FOCA), making the whole sport VERY political, very slow to react and very self-indulgent (focussing on themselves, not the fans).
I think Bernie must be reading some of my comments on a site somewhere (
) because even he has finally admitted that the competitors having a say in the rules of the sport is a fundamental problem with F1. As far as I know, this is a first for the ex-FOTA chairman!The crux of the problem is; in a system where all must agree for a rule change to happen, the team(s) at the top who's goal is to win and keep winning, are unlikely to ever agree to one that it's direct purpose is to upset the status quo. There is a place for a dictatorship, and that is in sport..
It's not just the teams, it's more complex than that, but FOTA have been the main problem with changes for the good of the sport since... 1980, certainly 1982 (including FOTA v FOCA), making the whole sport VERY political, very slow to react and very self-indulgent (focussing on themselves, not the fans).
Edited by mattikake on Wednesday 17th March 02:12
mattibukake said:
If I were to point the finger at a single entity, it would have to be the teams - FOTA.
I think Bernie must be reading some of my comments on a site somewhere ( ) because even he has finally admitted that the competitors having a say in the rules of the sport is a fundamental problem with F1. As far as I know, this is a first for the ex-FOTA chairman!
Well he's never going to admit that it's anything to do with him is he? I think Bernie must be reading some of my comments on a site somewhere (
) because even he has finally admitted that the competitors having a say in the rules of the sport is a fundamental problem with F1. As far as I know, this is a first for the ex-FOTA chairman!First FIA
The double diffusers destroyed all of the work that the Overtaking Working Group had done. They should have been banned - if not during last season, then for this season.
Next Track Designers
Spa, Interlagos or Suzuka rarely provide boring races.
The double diffusers destroyed all of the work that the Overtaking Working Group had done. They should have been banned - if not during last season, then for this season.
Next Track Designers
Spa, Interlagos or Suzuka rarely provide boring races.
Edited by Barbarossa on Wednesday 17th March 12:49
First FIA
The double diffusers destroyed all of the work that the Overtaking Working Group had done. They should have been banned - if not during last season, then for this season.
Next Track Designers
Spa, Interlagos or Suzuka rarely provide boring races.
The double diffusers destroyed all of the work that the Overtaking Working Group had done. They should have been banned - if not during last season, then for this season.
Next Track Designers
Spa, Interlagos or Suzuka rarely provide boring races.
Edited by Barbarossa on Wednesday 17th March 12:50
Fire99 said:
Pwig said:
The thing is everyone is jumping in after 1 race. Which every year previous has been a bore fest.
That's a fairly bold ol statement. I think there have been many many years where the season has kicked off with cars overtaking eachother.mattikake said:
If I were to point the finger at a single entity, it would have to be the teams - FOTA.
I think Bernie must be reading some of my comments on a site somewhere ( ) because even he has finally admitted that the competitors having a say in the rules of the sport is a fundamental problem with F1. As far as I know, this is a first for the ex-FOTA chairman!
The crux of the problem is; in a system where all must agree for a rule change to happen, the team(s) at the top who's goal is to win and keep winning, are unlikely to ever agree to one that it's direct purpose is to upset the status quo. There is a place for a dictatorship, and that is in sport..
It's not just the teams, it's more complex than that, but FOTA have been the main problem with changes for the good of the sport since... 1980, certainly 1982 (including FOTA v FOCA), making the whole sport VERY political, very slow to react and very self-indulgent (focussing on themselves, not the fans).
Go on then, humour me, tell us about 1982 and FOTA v FOCA...I think Bernie must be reading some of my comments on a site somewhere (
) because even he has finally admitted that the competitors having a say in the rules of the sport is a fundamental problem with F1. As far as I know, this is a first for the ex-FOTA chairman!The crux of the problem is; in a system where all must agree for a rule change to happen, the team(s) at the top who's goal is to win and keep winning, are unlikely to ever agree to one that it's direct purpose is to upset the status quo. There is a place for a dictatorship, and that is in sport..
It's not just the teams, it's more complex than that, but FOTA have been the main problem with changes for the good of the sport since... 1980, certainly 1982 (including FOTA v FOCA), making the whole sport VERY political, very slow to react and very self-indulgent (focussing on themselves, not the fans).
Edited by mattikake on Wednesday 17th March 02:12
The cars performance no longer contains enough variables.
If your car is 1/10th quicker down the straight but equal everywhere else, then after 10 laps you will 1 second ahead. Its that simple.
You can regulate all you like but the cars are so measurable and so precise now, each and every performance difference is borne out on the track.
This is made worse when there are large differences in performance between teams. The only way to stop it is to a) introduce less certainty into the car's performance, or more variables in how it gets round a lap or b) reduce the performance gaps by making as many pieces of hardware as possible, the same between each team. In which case it would essentially cease to be a prototype formula.
So its the engineers fault.
If your car is 1/10th quicker down the straight but equal everywhere else, then after 10 laps you will 1 second ahead. Its that simple.
You can regulate all you like but the cars are so measurable and so precise now, each and every performance difference is borne out on the track.
This is made worse when there are large differences in performance between teams. The only way to stop it is to a) introduce less certainty into the car's performance, or more variables in how it gets round a lap or b) reduce the performance gaps by making as many pieces of hardware as possible, the same between each team. In which case it would essentially cease to be a prototype formula.
So its the engineers fault.
DJC said:
mattikake said:
If I were to point the finger at a single entity, it would have to be the teams - FOTA.
I think Bernie must be reading some of my comments on a site somewhere ( ) because even he has finally admitted that the competitors having a say in the rules of the sport is a fundamental problem with F1. As far as I know, this is a first for the ex-FOTA chairman!
The crux of the problem is; in a system where all must agree for a rule change to happen, the team(s) at the top who's goal is to win and keep winning, are unlikely to ever agree to one that it's direct purpose is to upset the status quo. There is a place for a dictatorship, and that is in sport..
It's not just the teams, it's more complex than that, but FOTA have been the main problem with changes for the good of the sport since... 1980, certainly 1982 (including FOTA v FOCA), making the whole sport VERY political, very slow to react and very self-indulgent (focussing on themselves, not the fans).
Go on then, humour me, tell us about 1982 and FOTA v FOCA...I think Bernie must be reading some of my comments on a site somewhere (
) because even he has finally admitted that the competitors having a say in the rules of the sport is a fundamental problem with F1. As far as I know, this is a first for the ex-FOTA chairman!The crux of the problem is; in a system where all must agree for a rule change to happen, the team(s) at the top who's goal is to win and keep winning, are unlikely to ever agree to one that it's direct purpose is to upset the status quo. There is a place for a dictatorship, and that is in sport..
It's not just the teams, it's more complex than that, but FOTA have been the main problem with changes for the good of the sport since... 1980, certainly 1982 (including FOTA v FOCA), making the whole sport VERY political, very slow to react and very self-indulgent (focussing on themselves, not the fans).
Edited by mattikake on Wednesday 17th March 02:12
Typos aside the rest made sense though - the teams have always been bickering and always at loggerheads with those who should be the rule makers - FISA or the FIA - all over the need to win and nothing else.
First it was skirts (letter of the law) v's turbos (spirit of the law) then ballast (letter of the law) v's turbos (spirit of the law)...
But it's always been the fans that lose.
mattikake said:
DJC said:
mattikake said:
If I were to point the finger at a single entity, it would have to be the teams - FOTA.
I think Bernie must be reading some of my comments on a site somewhere ( ) because even he has finally admitted that the competitors having a say in the rules of the sport is a fundamental problem with F1. As far as I know, this is a first for the ex-FOTA chairman!
The crux of the problem is; in a system where all must agree for a rule change to happen, the team(s) at the top who's goal is to win and keep winning, are unlikely to ever agree to one that it's direct purpose is to upset the status quo. There is a place for a dictatorship, and that is in sport..
It's not just the teams, it's more complex than that, but FOTA have been the main problem with changes for the good of the sport since... 1980, certainly 1982 (including FOTA v FOCA), making the whole sport VERY political, very slow to react and very self-indulgent (focussing on themselves, not the fans).
Go on then, humour me, tell us about 1982 and FOTA v FOCA...I think Bernie must be reading some of my comments on a site somewhere (
) because even he has finally admitted that the competitors having a say in the rules of the sport is a fundamental problem with F1. As far as I know, this is a first for the ex-FOTA chairman!The crux of the problem is; in a system where all must agree for a rule change to happen, the team(s) at the top who's goal is to win and keep winning, are unlikely to ever agree to one that it's direct purpose is to upset the status quo. There is a place for a dictatorship, and that is in sport..
It's not just the teams, it's more complex than that, but FOTA have been the main problem with changes for the good of the sport since... 1980, certainly 1982 (including FOTA v FOCA), making the whole sport VERY political, very slow to react and very self-indulgent (focussing on themselves, not the fans).
Edited by mattikake on Wednesday 17th March 02:12
Typos aside the rest made sense though - the teams have always been bickering and always at loggerheads with those who should be the rule makers - FISA or the FIA - all over the need to win and nothing else.
First it was skirts (letter of the law) v's turbos (spirit of the law) then ballast (letter of the law) v's turbos (spirit of the law)...
But it's always been the fans that lose.
F1 didnt start when your interest. 1982 wasnt new, it was just more of the same. Whats happening now is just more of the same.
Learn some history of the sport and people might, just might, start taking you seriously instead of referring to you as a Matibukkake because they think you are a fool.
1982 and FOCA wasnt the start of anything, in fact it was really more like the end. It was the end of a 25yr war between Enzo and the British garigiste. Enzo's engines v British ingenuity. Vandervall started it off with his stated intention of nothing more than "to beat those bloody red cars". Now, a lot of folk will criticise Enzo, accuse him of manipulating the rules, cheating, bending and political fighting to get his way, but to be fair there is another story. Against a succession of the best that Britain could throw at the sport, it was in his mind, him standling alone, single handedly taking the fight to them. Alright so maybe Bruce and Black Jack were antipodeans, but they were camped in the UK and to Enzo that made em just more Brits. And yes Reggie came in with Turbos, and Alfa flapped about a bit, well, who the hell were Renault to Enzo? And the Alfa factory team might have had a "real" engine in the back of it, but it was still a pair of pesky bloody Brits playing silly buggers. Yes I know GM is a Saffer, but again he was an honourary Brit to Enzo.
So 1982 was culmination of that. And Enzo lost. Oh the skirts and funky chassis stuff may have gone, Turbos ruled, etc but then Alfa legged it and the pesky Brits teamed up with Brabham and lumped in some lunatic German unit and more sodding Brits teamed up with those b@stards Porsche and really stole his thunder! His team had been neutered by the time he died, the Brits had won.
Grand Prix racing and the human motivations behind it remain the same now as they ever were. And spirit of the rules?
Tripoli...
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