WRC - really not doing itself any favours
Discussion
The WRC really needs to take a good look at itself and work out how to prevent all this b
ks where drivers on gravel rallies don't want to run first because they end up sweeping the stage for those who run behind, meaning they lose time, so they all take time penalties to artificially control the running order for the following day, because at the moment it's a complete farce.
This morning its been worse than ever, Loeb was scheduled to run first with Olgier in a Citroen Junior car second and Latvala in the Focus third, which would have given Latvala a significant advantage over Loeb all through the final day. That was until combinations of Olgier checking out of service late and into the stage early which meant the time penalties he recieved put him ahead of Loeb. Ford then did likewise with Hirvonen in retaliation so he was ahead of Latvala to sweep the road for him.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/82651
Surely the simplest way to sort all this out is to base the running order for the stage on the results after the previous stage, so the person in the lead of the rally and running first only has the disadvantage until he falls back to second place later in the day, rather than having to run first on stage all day and losing loads of times. You might still get some dicking around prior to the last stage if there was only a few seconds in it, but you could get round that by making time penalties much bigger for the last stage / day to discourage it.
ks where drivers on gravel rallies don't want to run first because they end up sweeping the stage for those who run behind, meaning they lose time, so they all take time penalties to artificially control the running order for the following day, because at the moment it's a complete farce.This morning its been worse than ever, Loeb was scheduled to run first with Olgier in a Citroen Junior car second and Latvala in the Focus third, which would have given Latvala a significant advantage over Loeb all through the final day. That was until combinations of Olgier checking out of service late and into the stage early which meant the time penalties he recieved put him ahead of Loeb. Ford then did likewise with Hirvonen in retaliation so he was ahead of Latvala to sweep the road for him.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/82651
Surely the simplest way to sort all this out is to base the running order for the stage on the results after the previous stage, so the person in the lead of the rally and running first only has the disadvantage until he falls back to second place later in the day, rather than having to run first on stage all day and losing loads of times. You might still get some dicking around prior to the last stage if there was only a few seconds in it, but you could get round that by making time penalties much bigger for the last stage / day to discourage it.
To be honest, when the cars competing hardly appear any better to the casual observer than the showroom fodder you can buy from a dealer, WRC is never going to be interesting.
Bring back Group B style antics and spend some cash controlling the crowd a little better and we can have some decent rallying. The current setup is like giving Premiership football teams Sunday League squads full of drunken, fat and frankly crap footballers and telling us it's Premier League quality, all because of the brand name. It isn't.
I really have no interest in watching some guy I've hardly ever heard of driving what appears to be a liveried Focus RS moderately quickly. Give him 600bhp in a spaceframed monster that sounds like it eats children for breakfast, accompanied by a stupidly crazy homologation road car a la the RS200 and then I'll perk up and pay attention.
Bring back Group B style antics and spend some cash controlling the crowd a little better and we can have some decent rallying. The current setup is like giving Premiership football teams Sunday League squads full of drunken, fat and frankly crap footballers and telling us it's Premier League quality, all because of the brand name. It isn't.
I really have no interest in watching some guy I've hardly ever heard of driving what appears to be a liveried Focus RS moderately quickly. Give him 600bhp in a spaceframed monster that sounds like it eats children for breakfast, accompanied by a stupidly crazy homologation road car a la the RS200 and then I'll perk up and pay attention.
10 Pence Short said:
Bring back Group B style antics and spend some cash controlling the crowd a little better and we can have some decent rallying. The current setup is like giving Premiership football teams Sunday League squads full of drunken, fat and frankly crap footballers and telling us it's Premier League quality, all because of the brand name. It isn't.
I really have no interest in watching some guy I've hardly ever heard of driving what appears to be a liveried Focus RS moderately quickly. Give him 600bhp in a spaceframed monster that sounds like it eats children for breakfast, accompanied by a stupidly crazy homologation road car a la the RS200 and then I'll perk up and pay attention.
I agree, introduce something like the prototype class in LeMans for rallying, surely they'd be able to make it safer these days, I'd love to see monster HP cars roaring through the special stages again. I also don't think the new S2000 rules will do anything to improve the sport.I really have no interest in watching some guy I've hardly ever heard of driving what appears to be a liveried Focus RS moderately quickly. Give him 600bhp in a spaceframed monster that sounds like it eats children for breakfast, accompanied by a stupidly crazy homologation road car a la the RS200 and then I'll perk up and pay attention.
10 Pence Short said:
To be honest, when the cars competing hardly appear any better to the casual observer than the showroom fodder you can buy from a dealer, WRC is never going to be interesting.
Bring back Group B style antics and spend some cash controlling the crowd a little better and we can have some decent rallying. The current setup is like giving Premiership football teams Sunday League squads full of drunken, fat and frankly crap footballers and telling us it's Premier League quality, all because of the brand name. It isn't.
I really have no interest in watching some guy I've hardly ever heard of driving what appears to be a liveried Focus RS moderately quickly. Give him 600bhp in a spaceframed monster that sounds like it eats children for breakfast, accompanied by a stupidly crazy homologation road car a la the RS200 and then I'll perk up and pay attention.
Do you have a newsletter? I'd like to subscribe. Please send my copy to J.Todt, Paris.Bring back Group B style antics and spend some cash controlling the crowd a little better and we can have some decent rallying. The current setup is like giving Premiership football teams Sunday League squads full of drunken, fat and frankly crap footballers and telling us it's Premier League quality, all because of the brand name. It isn't.
I really have no interest in watching some guy I've hardly ever heard of driving what appears to be a liveried Focus RS moderately quickly. Give him 600bhp in a spaceframed monster that sounds like it eats children for breakfast, accompanied by a stupidly crazy homologation road car a la the RS200 and then I'll perk up and pay attention.
Hang on, I'm confused. I thought the fans complained that there was no relevance between the racing cars and the road cars.. Now they're complaining that there's too much relevance?
Anyway I think this thread is about the running order rules not about how much better Group B was.
And I agree with LocoBlade, now Ford and Citroen have realised that it's morally OK to break rules to manipulate the running order they'll do it every weekend. That will be a great shame to the sport.
Anyway I think this thread is about the running order rules not about how much better Group B was.
And I agree with LocoBlade, now Ford and Citroen have realised that it's morally OK to break rules to manipulate the running order they'll do it every weekend. That will be a great shame to the sport.
I am currently watching it on Motors TV. On board with Loeb. If the on-screen telemetry is to be believed, he is backing that puppy INTO 90 degree bends at 90mph and exiting at 60..... On gravel. and apparently he can lap Silverstone in a Red Bull F1 car within 1.5 seconds of Vettell. Best driver in the world right now? These guys are on a different planet.
I've completely given up with the WRC for the time being, it's pointless watching it, nobody can consistantly challenge Loeb and the coverage mainly consists of a letterbox view of the road ahead from one of the top 4, until somebody can stop Loeb and we get some coverage of more of the field and the outside of the cars instead of a dashboard/road then i'm giving it a miss.
Which is a shame.
Which is a shame.
zac510 said:
Hang on, I'm confused. I thought the fans complained that there was no relevance between the racing cars and the road cars.. Now they're complaining that there's too much relevance?
I'm not sure they ever did. The manufacturers didn't want to splash that much money so some excuses about relevance were brought out. The reality is people want WRC to be the gravel equivalent of F1 and the competing cars to be exciting to watch and hear. Cars that look hardly any different to the showroom version and, with less power in some cases, do not raise people's interest.It's a rediculous situation that was fixed a few years ago and then for some reason i never understood reversed again.
They need to go back to the top 15 running in reverse order, so the WRC points leader starts the event running 15th on the road, 2nd in the WRC runs 14th on the road and so on. Then for day two it's the top 15 reversed running order. Then day 3 it's the top 15 reversed running order.
It's worked perfectly well before when it was last introduced following all these nonsense tactics making a mockery of the events.
They need to go back to the top 15 running in reverse order, so the WRC points leader starts the event running 15th on the road, 2nd in the WRC runs 14th on the road and so on. Then for day two it's the top 15 reversed running order. Then day 3 it's the top 15 reversed running order.
It's worked perfectly well before when it was last introduced following all these nonsense tactics making a mockery of the events.
johnfelstead said:
It's a rediculous situation that was fixed a few years ago and then for some reason i never understood reversed again.
They need to go back to the top 15 running in reverse order, so the WRC points leader starts the event running 15th on the road, 2nd in the WRC runs 14th on the road and so on. Then for day two it's the top 15 reversed running order. Then day 3 it's the top 15 reversed running order.
It's worked perfectly well before when it was last introduced following all these nonsense tactics making a mockery of the events.
aaah yes but..... back in the day this phenomenom of running order didn't exist. I 've checked my old vids, and it was always seeded order on day one, running order on day 2 onwards. Whether that be the RAC or the Acropolis. I can't believe that the roads weren't swept back in the day by the passing of cars. I heard from Pentti Airikkala when I went to his school that it is something to do with the tyres they use today.... so lets go back to the old ones, and.. remove the restrictors from the turbosof the current wrc cars, and give weight breaks of 20kgs per year right back to the first wrc cars in '97. that is the 97 cars are 260kgs that the '10 cars.They need to go back to the top 15 running in reverse order, so the WRC points leader starts the event running 15th on the road, 2nd in the WRC runs 14th on the road and so on. Then for day two it's the top 15 reversed running order. Then day 3 it's the top 15 reversed running order.
It's worked perfectly well before when it was last introduced following all these nonsense tactics making a mockery of the events.
on another note, wasn't it immensely satisfying to see Britain's top rally driver finish 5th overall on the rally to score his best result for some time. That lad really is competitive and only finished 8 minutes off the lead.
i could do that.
It was a different sport back then, the cars are now sprint cars, not endurance cars, so small differences in surface condition makes a big difference in the event result. The tyres are also vastly better but also limited control tyres, not the multi manufacturer, multi compound, tread and construction that could be chosen before each stage in roadside service, which could help mitigate the issue. The stages were also single run and not as well graded prior to the first run, so you didnt have the same levels of marbles at the start.
What we have now is what we have to deal with, the past is the past, so lets see some sensible fix for what they are doing today, it's a mess that was sorted once and can be very quickly again.
What we have now is what we have to deal with, the past is the past, so lets see some sensible fix for what they are doing today, it's a mess that was sorted once and can be very quickly again.
10 Pence Short said:
They should stop flogging the dead horse that is Matthew Wilson. Mind you, the head of Stobart is mates with Malcolm Wilson and the rally team is just an expensive plaything between mates so I doubt they really care, as long as Stobart doesn't threaten the main team.
Matt Wilson was massively over-hyped.Looks like today's events might have been one step too far for the drivers too
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/82678
Suggesting a qualifying run the day before which gives the winner choice of start position, then subsequent days the leaders get to pick start position in order
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/82678
Suggesting a qualifying run the day before which gives the winner choice of start position, then subsequent days the leaders get to pick start position in order
10 Pence Short said:
zac510 said:
Hang on, I'm confused. I thought the fans complained that there was no relevance between the racing cars and the road cars.. Now they're complaining that there's too much relevance?
I'm not sure they ever did. The manufacturers didn't want to splash that much money so some excuses about relevance were brought out. The reality is people want WRC to be the gravel equivalent of F1 and the competing cars to be exciting to watch and hear. Cars that look hardly any different to the showroom version and, with less power in some cases, do not raise people's interest.The worst bit about this year is that its a stop-gap before the rules change to S2000 turbo cars.
Gun said:
10 Pence Short said:
They should stop flogging the dead horse that is Matthew Wilson. Mind you, the head of Stobart is mates with Malcolm Wilson and the rally team is just an expensive plaything between mates so I doubt they really care, as long as Stobart doesn't threaten the main team.
Matt Wilson was massively over-hyped.
Pkh72 said:
Gun said:
10 Pence Short said:
They should stop flogging the dead horse that is Matthew Wilson. Mind you, the head of Stobart is mates with Malcolm Wilson and the rally team is just an expensive plaything between mates so I doubt they really care, as long as Stobart doesn't threaten the main team.
Matt Wilson was massively over-hyped.LocoBlade said:
The WRC really needs to take a good look at itself and work out how to prevent all this bks where drivers on gravel rallies don't want to run first because they end up sweeping the stage for those who run behind, meaning they lose time, so they all take time penalties to artificially control the running order for the following day, because at the moment it's a complete farce.
This morning its been worse than ever, Loeb was scheduled to run first with Olgier in a Citroen Junior car second and Latvala in the Focus third, which would have given Latvala a significant advantage over Loeb all through the final day. That was until combinations of Olgier checking out of service late and into the stage early which meant the time penalties he recieved put him ahead of Loeb. Ford then did likewise with Hirvonen in retaliation so he was ahead of Latvala to sweep the road for him.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/82651
Surely the simplest way to sort all this out is to base the running order for the stage on the results after the previous stage, so the person in the lead of the rally and running first only has the disadvantage until he falls back to second place later in the day, rather than having to run first on stage all day and losing loads of times. You might still get some dicking around prior to the last stage if there was only a few seconds in it, but you could get round that by making time penalties much bigger for the last stage / day to discourage it.
The centralised sprint format has a lot to answer for the decline IMO.ks where drivers on gravel rallies don't want to run first because they end up sweeping the stage for those who run behind, meaning they lose time, so they all take time penalties to artificially control the running order for the following day, because at the moment it's a complete farce.This morning its been worse than ever, Loeb was scheduled to run first with Olgier in a Citroen Junior car second and Latvala in the Focus third, which would have given Latvala a significant advantage over Loeb all through the final day. That was until combinations of Olgier checking out of service late and into the stage early which meant the time penalties he recieved put him ahead of Loeb. Ford then did likewise with Hirvonen in retaliation so he was ahead of Latvala to sweep the road for him.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/82651
Surely the simplest way to sort all this out is to base the running order for the stage on the results after the previous stage, so the person in the lead of the rally and running first only has the disadvantage until he falls back to second place later in the day, rather than having to run first on stage all day and losing loads of times. You might still get some dicking around prior to the last stage if there was only a few seconds in it, but you could get round that by making time penalties much bigger for the last stage / day to discourage it.
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